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Old June 27, 2010, 11:09 PM   #1
efgf
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What is the Honda Civic of AR-style Rifles?

I'm an experienced shooter, mostly handguns but I also have a few bolt-action rifles. I'm interested in getting an AR, but even after reading several threads on this forum, I'm still baffled about all the choices.

I want to pose a little different question. In terms of cars, the Honda Civic has a long reputation for being a reliable and a good value. It's not fancy, but it's respectable and gets the job done. Which AR is most like a Civic?

For comparison, a CZ 75B would meet these criteria for a pistol and a Savage 10 .308 might be good for a bolt-action rifle. Which AR would be similar in terms of reliability and value? Accuracy and simplicity are important, but secondary, considerations for me.

Finally, I have intentionally left price out of the equation because I wouldn't want to rule out spending $100 or $200 more if that's what it took to get what I need. I'm mainly looking for something that will be a quality first AR for shooting at the range. I have no plans for hunting or home defense with the rifle.
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Old June 27, 2010, 11:35 PM   #2
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For just range use, if you want a complete rifle, just go with a cmmg bargain rifle. If you get serious about accuracy, you could later get a target upper and decent trigger. It really is best to piece your own together. Fwiw- I absolutely have had nothing but trouble from my 2 Smith M&P's.
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Old June 27, 2010, 11:42 PM   #3
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Look at Bravo Co. and Spikes Tactical offerings. They have the good features and the right price.
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Old June 27, 2010, 11:47 PM   #4
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I have a Bushmaster heavy barrel A2. I love it.
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Old June 28, 2010, 06:06 AM   #5
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Mine was a KISS carbine with A2 butt stock, 16" barrel and A1 upper.

It had an Olympic lower that I bought from one guy and a DPMS upper that I got from somebody else. Total cost with shipping and FFL fees was $605. That combo was plenty accurate and I never had any sort of failure or jam with it. It was a great little rifle but I just had no use for it.

When I tried to sell it, potential buyers were either put off by the "Oly" brand or the fact that it was a "built" rifle. If I had it to do over again, I would look for a factory-built Oly, DPMS or Bushmaster A3 carbine. Either that or I would just use parts from one vendor to build my own.

I ended up trading it for a pair of axles for my Jeep.
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Old June 28, 2010, 08:26 AM   #6
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Old June 28, 2010, 08:43 AM   #7
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OP..the problem with your question is that it only falls on the ears of those who own and love their own AR 15 rifles. If you tally up the answers you might find a lot of entries with low counts. What I would do If I was you is get a sense of the major brands and read up on them. Get a feel for what features you like (like barrel length, twist rate, chrome lined or chrome moly, trigger, gas system, sights, stock, etc...). Then once you narrow the list down to several ARs which have the features you're looking for, start asking which ones in particular are "better" by certain respects (like accuracy, or reliability).

Now to add to the tally... I own two Rock River Arms AR 15s. When I went to buy the first one, I was looking for the same thing as you... just something to take to the range and which will go bang every time. What I got was far BETTER. I have put tens of thousands of rounds through it, have gone to carbine courses in the pouring rain and sleet. have dropped it in mud, and have fired thousands of Wolf rounds through it. Through all that hell and back, I have only had ONE jam... and that was because I wanted to see if it would cycle a round which had a badly dented case (dumb, I know).

The accuracy is sub MAO, the two stage trigger is amazing, and I get all this in a carbine length system.

So, my vote goes to the RRA Carbine
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Old June 28, 2010, 10:05 AM   #8
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I don't own a S&W but I have a couple buddies that do and they seem to like them quite a bit. If I was looking to buy one right now I would be buying this one.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cdnn/Special.jpg

$599 for the whole setup after the $100 rebate.
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Old June 28, 2010, 10:13 AM   #9
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Get what fits you best! Building an AR is even more fun!!! Plus if you build one, you can save money, and have a more custom weapon that your standard AR's. I have built 2 so far and both are great guns.
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Old June 28, 2010, 10:42 AM   #10
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Honda Civic = basic Bushmaster A2 style without the bells and whistles.
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Old June 28, 2010, 11:05 AM   #11
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Although I can't say that my Del-Ton AR is anything yet as I have not shot it yet! I do think it's going to be a fine gun. Now if I could just stop adding stuff to it and go shooting I would have more info!

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Old June 28, 2010, 11:48 AM   #12
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I can't tell you what the Civic is but I can tell you what the Toyota is.

Seriously, that SW at CDNN for $599 looks like a winner.
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Old June 28, 2010, 12:30 PM   #13
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AR 15s as well as CZ-75Bs are all to cool to be compared to Civics. I hope you are not going to put one of those fart can exhaust tips on your AR. But seriously Bushy and S&W M&P are both good choices.
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Old June 28, 2010, 01:18 PM   #14
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http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...rchResult.html
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Old June 28, 2010, 01:35 PM   #15
DanThaMan1776
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Yeah man, what the hell... A Honda Civic just isn't comparable to an AR15 in any respect. More like Ford f150
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Old June 28, 2010, 01:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Yeah man, what the hell... A Honda Civic just isn't comparable to an AR15 in any respect. More like Ford f150
Yeah, an Ar-15 is a work horse. Much like a pickup. I think the Honda compares better to a 10/22.
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Old June 28, 2010, 02:11 PM   #17
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10-22.............Motor Scooter
AR15..............Honda Civic, or for those who need an American reference - 4-cylinder Jeep Wrangler.
AK-47............. Chrysler K-Car (old technology, very basic, they work).
M1A - Ford F250
FN FAL - Toyota Tacoma
Barrett 82A1 - Hummer H2
GE Minigun - 1962 Corvette
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Old June 28, 2010, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
10-22.............Motor Scooter
AR15..............Honda Civic, or for those who need an American reference - 4-cylinder Jeep Wrangler.
AK-47............. Chrysler K-Car (old technology, very basic, they work).
M1A - Ford F250
FN FAL - Toyota Tacoma
Barrett 82A1 - Hummer H2
GE Minigun - 1962 Corvette
10-22.............mini cooper
AR15...............Chevy Tahoe Z71
AK-47.............3/4 ton pickup with a 454
M1A...............Dodge 2500 cummins
FN FAL.............Ford F-250
Barrett 82A1...........Military 6X6 deuce
GE Minigun............Pro Mod dragster
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Old June 28, 2010, 02:30 PM   #19
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An A2 configuration 20" AR-15 with removeable upper handle, iron sights and the ability to accept a scope if desired. Bushmaster and Rock River come to mind as great places to go to get a complete rifle in that spec, that won't let you down and are good price/performance values.
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Old June 28, 2010, 02:50 PM   #20
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I agree that the Civic comparison is not valid. It's all those things that COLT, BCM, Noveske, & Daniel Defense don't skip in the manufacturing process are what make them less prone to function issues and breakage.

Bushy is like Chrysler... good features, but very spotty QC at best.

CMMG is some guy selling Salvage Title vehicles out of his back yard. You might get lucky and get a decent one... depending on what parts went into the thing this week.

Olympic Arms is like buying a Yugo, you know you're getting a piece of junk, but you're so proud of the money you've saved.

The best overall value in my opinion, assuming you want a factory compelte, would be the COLT 6920. They can be had for around 1000-1100 dollars these days.
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Old June 28, 2010, 02:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Seriously, that SW at CDNN for $599 looks like a winner.
+1
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Old June 28, 2010, 05:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
The best overall value in my opinion, assuming you want a factory compelte, would be the COLT 6920. They can be had for around 1000-1100 dollars these days.
That's the Toyota reference in my first post....now see if you can guess what it means....
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Old June 28, 2010, 10:06 PM   #23
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The OP was asking what the Honda Civic of AR style rifles are and gave what his point was, not the debate of which cars fit other guns.


My choice? I think the Bushmaster, Stag, or DPMS fits the bill just fine. They aren't absolute tackdrivers. But they are durable, easy in the wallet (in relative terms of today's market for ARs), and can be interchanged with most other aftermarket parts out there.
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Old June 29, 2010, 07:40 AM   #24
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Years ago Olympic Arms marketed a low cost AR that was pretty crappy, they still have that reputation but their current stuff is fine, many happy owners. For your situation I would buy a Bushmaster, can't beat the warranty. It may not be all mil-spec but are you going to war with it? I have two BM's and not one problem with either one. If you look around you can find them for around $800.


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Old June 29, 2010, 08:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Years ago Olympic Arms marketed a low cost AR that was pretty crappy, they still have that reputation but their current stuff is fine, many happy owners. For your situation I would buy a Bushmaster, can't beat the warranty. It may not be all mil-spec but are you going to war with it? I have two BM's and not one problem with either one. If you look around you can find them for around $800.
I was at an Appleseed shoot a few years ago, and there were a ton of AR-15's at this shoot. The 2 guys next to me both had Olympic Arms match grade rifles, and those guns performed flawlessly, plus accurately. I didn't know Oly arms were crap, until someone mentioned it.
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