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Old June 26, 2010, 09:10 AM   #1
skifast
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Taurus Disappointment

I have owned 7 Taurus' over the years. I like their design, ergonomics and price. Their customer service and quality control is awful. Taurus business executives also have very poor business judgment.

Long story, short. I owned a 24/7 OSS 9mm. The gun would not fire in double action mode. The screw holding the recoil spring on the rod was also walking off. After wasting a ton of time talking to Taurus, they finally sent me some parts to try and fix the gun. I was able to fix it. I saved Taurus at least $100, in shipping, admin and labor costs by fixing it myself and not sending it back. I saved the hassle of sending the gun to Taurus, being without the gun for months and possibly not having it fixed.

I replaced the OSS with a brand new PT809. The 809 had two major problems. First, the front sight was visibly off center. Second, the trigger would stick and not reset. I paid a gunsmith to move the sight. I fixed the trigger. There were also some other small issues. I sent Taurus emails and letters simply asking to be made whole with respect to my costs. Again, I saved Taurus at least $100 in costs.

NO RESPONSE AT ALL. I wrote Bob Morrison and the COO. NO RESPONSE.

In the past on this forum and others I have defended Taurus. No more. Taurus does not respect its customers. They do not have the common decency to respond to legitimate issues.

Taurus may be enjoying a sellers market. However, markets have a way of changing. Taurus may find that their poor business practices today will result in real financial problems in the future.

Future Taurus buyer be warned.
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Old June 26, 2010, 09:20 AM   #2
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On addition to the rant. My PT709 had a couple FTEs the other day at the range. I found that Taurus had redesigned the extractor to fix the problem.

I called Taurus to have them send me a new extractor. Leo won't send me the extractor and says that Taurus cannot determine from the s/n if my gun has a new or old extractor.

In the thread on Taurusarmed.net about the extractor, the OP wrote that the Taurus CS rep looked up his s/n and determined that it had an old extractor.

Someone is lying, either Leo or the OP on TA.
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Old June 26, 2010, 09:39 AM   #3
"JJ"
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I'm sorry to hear about your troubles!
I just went through a similar situation with Tore-us!

It amazes me that they have the lack of concern for thier customers.
I agree with the market change. This attitude WILL catch up with them.

Local gun smiths are going to start refusing to do work on them due to lack of support. There was already a post on one forum saying just that.
This will increase the work load at Tore-us which will back up warranty return to around a year!!

It will come crumbling down.

Which makes me think, its almost like they are trying to fail.
NO ONE trying to run a successful business would treat thier customers this way!

I hope you survive your situation ok!
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Old June 26, 2010, 09:40 AM   #4
Wishoot
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Sorry for your problems. Many times I have been tempted to purchase a Taurus. I love their designs.

I'm always brought back to earth after reading a post such as yours however. Thank you for potentially saving me time, money and heartache.
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Old June 26, 2010, 09:58 AM   #5
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I have nothing against Taurus, I've a little Model 85 SS, snub-nose 38 for about 25 years. Great little gun.

I bought a .45, 24/7 OSS, disassembled it and checked it out. The trigger group is permanently retained in place; you would have to drill or mill a small pressed in pin to gain access. I guess from a liability perspective it may make sense, but to someone like myself, it was unacceptable. There are some small, delicate looking parts in there.

The little plastic striker cover on the back of the slide broke very easily when I tried to remove the striker to clean it. Very cheesy.

I sold it.
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Old June 26, 2010, 10:17 AM   #6
rambilt
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I have one bad experience with Taurus. I bought a PT-101 from Academy for 299.00. It's my first semi auto. Anyway, the first time at the range it was very good. Ate all 200 rounds without any problem. Came home, cleaned the gun then came back to the range a couple weeks later with friends. That's when the problem occurred! As I was shooting, after the third or so shots, the magazine fell to the ground? The magazine release assembly managed to unscrew or disassemble itself. I returned it to Academy and they won't give me a receipt that they have my gun. Well, that's another problem. Anyway, I'm not going to take a risk again. I have bought 3 other semi autos since I bought the Taurus. I guess Taurus had me addictive to guns. One good thing....
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Old June 26, 2010, 11:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
I sent Taurus emails and letters simply asking to be made whole with respect to my costs. Again, I saved Taurus at least $100 in cost
So you sent Taurus a letter asking them to send you money for fixing your own guns?

I applaud your effort, but I'm certainly not surprised they haven't responded to your requests. If you haven't noticed, customer service isn't a Taurus strong point.
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Old June 26, 2010, 11:18 AM   #8
Cool_Hand
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Quote:
So you sent Taurus a letter asking them to send you money for fixing your own guns?
I don't think that is what he meant
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Old June 26, 2010, 11:38 AM   #9
Dashunde
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Yea, thats what I think he said... he paid to fix it, and wants to be reimbursed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skifast
I paid a gunsmith to move the sight. I fixed the trigger. There were also some other small issues. I sent Taurus emails and letters simply asking to be made whole with respect to my costs. Again, I saved Taurus at least $100 in costs.
So, you took it upon yourself to skip over their warranty process (rights), paid someone else to fix it, spent your own time on it, and now you want to "be made whole" dollar-wise... after the fact.
I would have ignored you too.

I do (very much) feel bad for anyone who gets a crappy gun, theyr'e a real huge pain to return/ship and then a long wait to get it back - it sucks.
Your approach with the first gun (getting parts sent) is always the best way to start - done it a few times myself - but your sideways approach on this latest gun was certain to leave you empty handed with any company and while I dont care much for Taurus autos you shouldnt be here bashing them for not responding to your claim.

Honestly, your logic on the matter does not seem very clear - repeated buying of problematic brand and this reimbursement approach.
I dont get it. Most would have switched to CZ or Glock or any of the other more reliable price-competitive brands, of which there are plenty.

Last edited by Dashunde; June 26, 2010 at 11:43 AM.
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Old June 26, 2010, 11:58 AM   #10
skifast
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Yes, I would like to be reimbursed. It is much less expensive for Taurus to reimburse me, $10, than the cost of shipping alone if I returned the gun. I did include the gunsmith's receipt.

Am I holding my breath no.

As a business owner, I would appreciate a customer that not only fixed a faulty product that I shipped, I would reimburse him his out of pocket costs. Further, I might throw in a magazine or two for the inconvenience.


As a business owner, I understand that my customers make or break me. If they are happy, they will recommend my product. If I earn their displeasure, they will not recommend nor speak highly of my product. This is especially true in the Internet age.

It seems to me to be very poor business to create a dissatisfied customer over a legitimate $10 issue. Taurus has already lost at least two future sales. I am buying two guns and they will not be Taurus.
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Old June 26, 2010, 12:01 PM   #11
skifast
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My first 4 Taurus were fine. I bought the 809 and 709, because I like their design.

I really does not bother me that the guns have had some issues. They problems are all fixable. IMO, the gun are reliable and I carry them.

The problem I have is with Taurus business practices.

One thing I learned in business, is that you should never not respond to a customer. You may not agree, you may not do what they ask, but never ignore them.
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Old June 26, 2010, 12:04 PM   #12
CDW4ME
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I don't think (actually very certain) that any handgun maker would reinburse your gunsmith bill, they would want it sent in for repair.
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Old June 26, 2010, 12:20 PM   #13
skifast
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I disagree. I think many companies would have the common sense to do so. Do they have a contractual obligation, no. Does it make good sense from a cost-benefit analysis, without a doubt.
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Old June 26, 2010, 12:22 PM   #14
skifast
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In addition, Taurus would be much better served, if they used local gunsmiths. They would save the cost of shipping. However, more importantly, guns would be repaired in days instead of months. For a company that has a proven reputation of shipping defective guns, getting the warranty repairs done quickly would be highly beneficial for their future sales.
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Old June 26, 2010, 12:44 PM   #15
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I agree that ALL of the gun companies - due to the PITA and expense factors related to shipping guns - should seek out local & reputable smiths to take care of routine problems (especially known issues).

Problem is... you tried to choose the warranty method FOR them.
That'll never fly.

Also, its worth noting that your line of thinking that they should be happy to make repairs cheaper and easier by letting people do what you have done sounds good, but will certainly bring a good dose of fraud into the picture as well. Your analysis of the whole thing is unrealistic and too "perfect world".
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Old June 26, 2010, 01:09 PM   #16
skifast
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I disagree. I chose to have it fixed myself and did so knowing I would probably be out of pocket some money and time.

It is not a perfect world concept to expect a company to treat their customers with respect.

To have a secretary draft a letter that respectfully decline my request is not difficult.

To not respond is very poor business.
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Old June 26, 2010, 01:19 PM   #17
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skifast
As a business owner, I would appreciate a customer that not only fixed a faulty product that I shipped, I would reimburse him his out of pocket costs. Further, I might throw in a magazine or two for the inconvenience.
As a business owner, you wouldn't be in business very long if you did that. How do you have any idea whether or not the gun was every really broken? How do you know they're not sending you fake receipts just to get you to pay up? Even if customer A didn't scam you, some of the 5,000 people that read his post on the internet about how awesome you are for sending him money WOULD scam you.


No, I'm sorry, I am a business owner and I would have refused to pay you. Mind you, we could have come to an agreement to do what you did, sure. I could have had you take pictures, I could have sent you the parts, absolutely I would not ignore you, but you fix it without my OK, without my ever really knowing that it's broken and then you want money? Um, no.

BTW, stop buying Taurus products if they don't work for you. Would you keep buying Chevys if every one you had blew the engine at 25,000 miles?
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Old June 26, 2010, 01:24 PM   #18
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We see this happen more and more with companies that offer what we "think" is a good product at a cheap price but, what we really end up getting is a cheap product at a cheap price!

Sure there are good Taurus guns but, the bad ones are the ones we hear about and when they have a **** poor customer service department it compounds the issue!

I have had my eye on a Taurus 608 SS for as long as they have been out and the only thing that kept me from buying one was at first money now it's Taurus's rep in the customer service department.

EAA is another I passed on due to their customer service reputation!
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Old June 26, 2010, 03:16 PM   #19
Snake Plissken
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I am a Taurus owner.
Will never buy one again because of their poor customer service.
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Old June 26, 2010, 06:44 PM   #20
nefprotector
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While I have not had any problems with Taurus. I have had problems with other guns that come from Academy. Im just wondering are they 2nd or 3rds?
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Old June 26, 2010, 06:51 PM   #21
Pacquiao
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Taurus 24/7 designed , manufactured for the museum not the range.

24/7 titanium slide, 17+1 great ergonomics. All in one poorly manufactured gun. Save your money go for another brand anything but this crappy brand.
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Old June 26, 2010, 07:21 PM   #22
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If this is the belief you follow, skifast, then I HIGHLY recommend you never buy a Les Baer. If you think for one minute he's going to let you have a gunsmith which he has no knowledge of his abilities pilfering around a firearm which he made and then pay YOU for the "fix", you'll be posting "Les Baer Disappointment" as well. Just a suggestion.

There's a reason why manufacturers REQUIRE customers to send their firearms back. Well, there's many. But I digress....
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Old June 26, 2010, 08:25 PM   #23
boykinhntr
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You can't possibly be serious!
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Old June 26, 2010, 08:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinhntr
You can't possibly be serious!
I know! I can't believe it either....he actually bought another Taurus after his experience with the first one!


And wait....did someone in here just compare Taurus to Baer??
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Old June 26, 2010, 09:40 PM   #25
skifast
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If I am running Taurus, one of the strategic analytical tools I am going to use is SWOT. I am going to view the company product design as its strength. I am going to view its customer service, quality control and reputation as a weakness. I am going to try and turn my weakness into an opportunity.

I propose that excellent customer service is more valued than an excellent product out of the box. If a company by its actions stands behind its customers, it will thrive. If a company turns off is customers, it will eventual go belly up.

So lets say that every bad Taurus firearm is fixed within 10 days. Lets also say the Taurus gives every repair customer a free mag. The mag costs Taurus $10 and has a value to the customer of $40. Taurus goodwill with its customers will sky rocket. The Taurus sucks threads will go away. Gun store employees will recommend the product rather than steering customers to other mfrs. Taurus could not buy this type of marketing.

In fact, IMO, Taurus would be able to add $25 to the price of every firearm to cover its costs.

I like Taurus guns. I carry them. My post was not a slam on the product design, but a valid criticism of the company's customer service.

IMO, Taurus is being penny wise and dollar foolish.
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