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Old June 8, 2010, 08:19 PM   #1
TPAW
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Warning to New Yorkers! The Only thread on the same topic!

Micro-Stamping Bill Heads to Senate Floor!

Please Contact Your State Senator Today!



Senate Bill 6005 passed the Senate Codes Committee today, Tuesday, June 8 and could be brought up on the Senate Floor as early as Thursday. It’s companion in the Assembly, Assembly Bill 6468C, has already passed.

Both A6468C and S6005 require that semiautomatic pistols manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer in the state of New York be capable of micro-stamping ammunition and establish fines for violations of this requirement.

Micro-stamping is an unproven technology that would require unique identifying information from the firearm, including the make, model, and serial number to be etched into the firing pin and breech face in such a manner that those identifiers are imprinted on the cartridge case upon firing. The technology can easily be defeated with common household tools, has no public safety value, and adds substantially to the cost of the firearm. If passed, the availability of semi-automatic handguns in New York could be in jeopardy, as manufacturers simply may choose not to build or sell firearms for purchase in the state. In fact, this bill would likely create a de facto ban on new semi-automatic handguns.

If allowed to become law, this bill will serve as a ban on all new semiautomatic handguns in the Empire State! It is imperative that you contact members of the New York State Senate and respectfully ask that they protect our Second Amendment rights by opposing S6005.

Your State Senator can be contacted through the Senate switchboard at
(518) 455-2800.
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Old June 8, 2010, 08:46 PM   #2
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http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A.6468
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Old June 8, 2010, 10:34 PM   #3
Al Norris
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Um guys?

Did you actually read the bill? Did you see that this law affects all new semi-autos? ALL. No exceptions or exemptions..... (things that make me go, hmmmm)

I'll give the NY Assembly points for knowing that the manufacturers aren't going to change/retool for this, so they set it up so that independent "job shops" would produce the micro-stamping structures on the firearms. At no more than $12.00 (or less) per gun. In batches of at least 1K (any entrepreneurs out there?).

Bonus points for anyone that understands and can explain this section:
Quote:
5. The possession by any person of a defaced machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun is presumptive evidence that such person defaced the same, PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT THIS SUBDIVISION SHALL NOT APPLY TO POSSESSION OF A SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL WHERE THE DEFACEMENT ALLEGED CONSISTS OF DEFACING A MICROSTAMPING COMPONENT OR MECHANISM OF SUCH PISTOL.
Oh and for you reloaders in NY State...

How many times can you reload your (let's say) .45's before the stamps become eligible or the casing suffers catastrophic failure? Is the State liable?

Interesting law.
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Old June 9, 2010, 06:23 AM   #4
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Thanks for the ' heads up ' I didn't realize that it was out of committee. Email sent to my senator...
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Old June 9, 2010, 06:26 AM   #5
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Crap like this just ****** me off to no end. Liberals will do anything to take away and/or impinge on our 2nd Amendment Rights won't they? If they can't out right ban all of 'em, then make them so expensive that only the "Rich" who never commit crimes will have them.
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Old June 9, 2010, 09:48 AM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipitas
Bonus points for anyone that understands and can explain this section:
Interesting. That almost seems like an opponent of the bill snuck that in there. That language effectively nullifies the purpose of the bill. What good does it do to have micro-stamping if the very bill that provides for it allows for it to be removed with no penalty? (not that micro-stamping does any good anyway)


These bills are ridiculous. It's the same nonsense as the CoBIS system. Any "handgun" has to include a fired shell casing but the definition of "handgun" includes a description of the barrel length so if the "firearm" does not have a barrel attached then it's not a "handgun" and does not need a shell casing.

This bill could be nullified by the distributors in the same fashion. All they need to do is ship the "firearm" and the barrel in two separate packages. The "firearm" is not a "handgun" until the barrel is attached. The buyer simply needs to purchase the "firearm", take it out to their car, go back inside and purchase the barrel and then assemble it at home. Once purchased, the "firearm" is considered "used" and is exempt from the law.

Utter nonsense.
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Old June 9, 2010, 10:23 AM   #7
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Reading that bill gives me a headache. I read it a couple times and still cant figure out what it says.

Mox Nix, I cant go to NYC anyway, I still have an outstanding parking ticket from 1969.
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Old June 9, 2010, 03:13 PM   #8
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Update On NYS Microstamping!

Microstamping advanced to 2nd Report in the Senate. Eric
Schneiderman thinks he has the votes because the Republicans cannot
keep their conference together, especially Frank Padavan and Tom
Morahan who is retiring.

Keep calling everybody in the Senate. The full list of phone &
fax #s can be found here.

http://www.legislativegazette.com/pa...F_GUIDE_09.pdf
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Old June 10, 2010, 01:50 PM   #9
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To All NYS Gun Owners

New York State

Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc.

P.O. Box 1023 Troy, New York 12181, Phone: 518-272-2654, www.nysrpa.org


Gun Owners of New York State,

As everyone knows microstamping will most likely come to a vote in the NYS Senate prior to adjournment this month. I know you have been calling your NYS Senator and urging that this legislation be defeated since it will do nothing to make the people of New York State more secure only further restrict the legal and lawful gun owners of this state. I appreciate that but the fight is not over and there is more to do. Please call all of the following NYS Senate Republican Senate leaders and urge them to hold their conference together and make sure their members all vote NO ON MICROSTAMPING.

Those Senators and their positions are:

Senator Dean G. Skelos, Minority Leader, PH: 518-455-3171, Skelos@senate.state.ny.us

Thomas W. Libous, Asst Minority Leader, PH: 518-455-2677, senator@senatorlibous.com

Vincent L. Leibell, Asst Minority Leader, PH: 518-455-2677, leibell@senate.state.ny.us

Owen H. Johnson, Asst Minority Leader, PH: 518-455-3411, ojohnson@senate.state.ny.us

Thomas P. Morahan, Chair, Minority Policy, PH: 518-455-3261, morahan@senate.ny.us

William J. Larkin, Minority Whip, PH: 518-455-2770, larkin@senate.ny.us

Michael F. Nozzolio, Asst Minority Whip, PH: 518-455-2366, nozzolio@senate.ny.us

Kenneth P. LaValle, Chair, Minority Conference, PH: 518-455-3121, lavalle@senate.ny.us

Remember, emails are good but calls are better, let’s show the leadership how we feel and explain in a polite manner that their jobs are dependent on us. Light up the Switchboard
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Old June 10, 2010, 02:29 PM   #10
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Good luck to you New Yorkers with your twits in Albany.
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Old June 10, 2010, 03:43 PM   #11
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Does anyone know how NY State Police Departments are armed? That is, don't they go through some sort of bid from local dealers? Or do they take delivery direct from an out of state source (manufacturer, distributor or other out of state dealer)?

I'm curious how they would exempt themselves, from the otherwise non-exempt language of the bill.
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Old June 10, 2010, 03:56 PM   #12
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Tom Libous, BTW, is SOLIDLY on our side. I have had numerous email conversations with him. He'd a great guy. Totally dedicated to the cause.
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Old June 10, 2010, 04:08 PM   #13
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It's over in NY

We have no NYS state budget, due April 1st. We are 9 billion in debt with 100's of billions in unfunded liabilities and this is what our reps are spending their time on. Well... that and preparation for their own pending criminal court cases, most all of them are under inditement for one thing or another.

NY States better days are in the rear view mirror.
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Old June 10, 2010, 06:49 PM   #14
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I got through to all except two, lines were busy. The ones I did get through to all said that the switch boards were lighting up and that they would vote NO. Skelo's office seem confident that all would vote NO. That remains to be seen.
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Old June 13, 2010, 12:23 PM   #15
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Attention New York Gun Owners! Update!

State Senator Dean Skelos, Republican Minority Leader from Long Island, is an influential voice to other Republican Senators from around New York. His influence could make or break the passage of this bill. He needs to know that New Yorkers DO NOT support this bill.


Call State Senator Dean Skelos at (518 ) 455-3171 today.

The Brady Camp has sent out a massive email to everyone telling them to call Dean Skelos and to support the microstamping bill!

I really want you to stop right now what your doing on LIF/internet, grab your cellphone in your pocket (or any phone..) and call him RIGHT NOW and tell me to NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL.

It takes less then 20 seconds to do this. Do it now for the sake of NY, the community and generations to follow.
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Old June 13, 2010, 05:42 PM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
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While I hate to be heavy handed on important RKBA issues - we cannot have multiple threads on the same topic. It is also a imposition on moderators times to have to merge these continually. It has to cease. There will be only one NY thread on the same issue.
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Old June 14, 2010, 07:56 AM   #17
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Seems to me that some of the NY legislature should talk to the folks in CA...where they are already saying "Microstamping? We were snookered and this is a con job!"
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Old June 14, 2010, 01:36 PM   #18
Al Norris
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After I posted my last question, I did some research on it.

From what I can tell, every single major handgun manufacturer has a list of police specific FFL's that the NY police can purchase from.

Should this bill pass, as is, then every single police dept. will have to buy these "micro-stamped" firearms. Not to mention, the added cost. There are no exceptions or exemptions in this bill for LE.
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Old June 14, 2010, 08:10 PM   #19
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Antipitas,

From the research I've done you are correct in saying that law enforcement will have to purchase micro stamped weapons under the new law. In the meantime, the gang members that I work with (search my other posts) who I've spoken to will continue to own non micro stamped guns, guns with micro stamping (easily) defeated, and, of course revolvers. I'm sure most hard core criminals will do the same.

S6005 is just plain stupid. One supporter I spoke with was under the impression that the micro stamping related to the shell itself, not the casing. He told me that he felt it was a good idea because it could identify bullets that were fired by law enforcement officers. I pointed out to him, that the stamp was on the shell "casing" not on the shell so the actual bullet wouldn't be identifiable. But, as far as I know, the NYPD already marks their ammo with a distinctive marking (I wont give the specifics here) that lets those at crime scenes know which casings came from NYPD weapons. I'm not sure if other municipalities in NY State do the same.

S6005 is a ridiculous law. I wrote to my state senator but he hasn't responded (wow... what a surprise!)

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Old June 14, 2010, 08:26 PM   #20
Al Norris
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Busby, I wholeheartedly agree!

Further, my interpretation of section 5 (previously posted) differs from what peetzakilla surmised. It merely removes the presumption of guilt if the microstamping has been altered. That alone would make prosecution quite difficult. If not altogether impossible.

So many things wrong with this bill....
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Old June 15, 2010, 02:06 AM   #21
44 AMP
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Like a lot of law recently, what's wrong with it in reality doesn't matter, its a "we're doing something" bill. The fact that it can't work, and won't work, won't be told to the general public, and probably doesn't matter to the legislators proposing it, either.

Their side will automatically support it, our side (the few left in NY) will oppose it, and the only way to get support from the middle (who are concerned about crime and violence) is to explain, in detail how it can't and won't work, and will waste time, and (most important) MONEY that can better be spent elsewhere. And be prepared to face deception, trickery, outright lies, and even personal attacks as you explain the truth.

Ask them who they are going to lay off, to get the money needed for tracking, database management, oh, and by the way, all new guns for all the cops in the state?

In several states where this kind of bill was pushed (and so far, failed) you see the force behind it is the guys with the patent for the microstamping process, aided and abetted by the antis, who support anything that makes life harder for the ordinary gun owner.


Sure would be nice to have that contract, but somehow, I don't see getting the government to pass a law making everyone buy your (patented) product as ethical. But then, maybe thats just me?
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Old June 15, 2010, 08:29 AM   #22
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipitas
It merely removes the presumption of guilt if the microstamping has been altered. That alone would make prosecution quite difficult. If not altogether impossible.

Either way, I can't imagine why they'd do that. That section makes no sense. It allows anyone to remove the microstamping and face no penalty, unless it can be PROVED that they were the ones who did it.


Anyway, we all agree how stupid the law is. Some guns may be tricky to alter but can you imagine a Glock? A $200 slide and a $5 firing pin and you're back to normal, completely legally. That's if you even bother with a new slide. Given the section that you quoted, 30 seconds with a Dremel and a $5 firing pin is all you'd need.

On top of that, all anyone has to do is buy the frame complete with all parts except the barrel and then buy the barrel separately and the "firearm" would be exempt because it does not qualify as a "handgun" without the barrel.

Utter nonsense.

The worst state government in history, a budget that bankrupts the state and can't get passed which is now 2 1/2 months past due and these yahoos want to pass a microstamping bill.:barf:
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Old June 15, 2010, 06:14 PM   #23
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In your FACE, Bloomberg!!

From: NYSRPA-alert@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NYSRPA-alert@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacob J. Rieper, Vice President of Legislative & Political Affairs
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 6:11 PM
To: NYSRPA-alert
Subject: [NYSRPA-alert] Microstamping bill laid aside


S-6005A has been laid aside for now.

The bill was brought to the floor. Senators Eric Schneiderman, Dan
Squadron, Craig Johnson, Eric Adams, Liz Krueger, Velmanette
Montgomery, Bill Perkins, Ruben Diaz, Malcolm Smith and Suzi
Oppenheimer spoke in favor of it. A slow roll call was called
for. Voting began. When they were getting to the end of the
alphabet, the bill was laid aside.

Jacob J. Rieper, Vice President of Legislative & Political Affairs
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association
http://www.nysrpa.org
http://www.nysrpa-pvf.org
Yahoo! Messenger ID: nyrkba




From: NYSRPA-alert@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NYSRPA-alert@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jacob J. Rieper, Vice President of Legislative & Political Affairs
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 6:53 PM
To: NYSRPA-alert
Subject: [NYSRPA-alert] Statement from Bloomberg


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

June 15, 2010
No. 269
www.nyc.gov

STATEMENT OF MAYOR MICHAEL R. BLOOMBERG ON STATE
SENATE ROLL CALL VOTE ON MICROSTAMPING BILL

“This was a defeat for our police officers,
district attorneys, and the public – and a
victory for criminals who use illegal guns to
shoot and kill innocent people. The Senators who
voted against this common sense measure listened
to the special interests instead of the 100
mayors and 83 police chiefs and law enforcement
organizations across New York State who supported
it. I want to thank Senator Eric Schneiderman for
leading the charge to pass the bill and Senate
Democratic Leader John Sampson for bringing a
bill on a key public safety issue to the floor.
John Sampson showed real leadership on this
issue, and despite the result, his efforts are
much appreciated. I also want to thank Senator
Frank Padavan for doing the right thing and
supporting this bill. Speaker Sheldon Silver and
Assemblywoman Michelle Schimel also deserve great
credit for passing this legislation in the
Assembly. And while we are all disappointed with
the results of today’s vote, we remain committed
to passing this bill during this session. We will
continue to make the case to our Senators on how
important this bill is to cracking down on
dangerous criminals and protecting our police officers.”

Contact: Stu Loeser / Jason Post (212) 788-2958
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Old June 15, 2010, 08:47 PM   #24
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I've had communication with Senator Montgomery in the past both by email and phone. I found her to be receptive when presented with logic and facts. Although I'm not in her district, I'm going to email her regarding this bill to help her to better understand it.

However, I was not at all happy with the misleading commercials that were broadcast on NY radio stations recently saying that the bill would make gun ownership illegal and to call our State Senator. I would think that any Senator who honestly understood the bill, whether he or she was in favor or against it, would disregard anyone who called saying that the bill would make gun ownership illegal.

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Old June 21, 2010, 08:13 PM   #25
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NYC radio station Newsradio 880 has been saying in their news reports this week that the NY State Senate is preparing to vote again on this bill. But I've seen no reference to this on their own website nor on the NY State Senate's nor have I received any email updates from the NRA. Is the NY Senate planning on sneaking this bill through while no one is looking while everyone thinks it has been set aside?

I admire the accurate and well thought out comments that were made responding to this story in the NY Daily News. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...l_bullets.html

I only wish my State Senators were so rational.

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