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Old June 14, 2010, 03:03 PM   #1
Slats
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Location: Fort Simpson, Northwest Territories
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Choices for big bear protection

Next month I'll be doing some work in an area where there are lots of polar bears and some griz. Unfortunately I don't have access to hard cast slugs or bullets for my 12-guage or .45-70. What do I bring? I have regular hunting slugs for the 12 and 300 gr hollow point or 325 gr hornady flew tips for the .45-70.
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Old June 14, 2010, 03:21 PM   #2
Scorch
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Given those choices, slugs.
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Old June 14, 2010, 03:23 PM   #3
briandg
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I'd suggest that you have some polar bear worthy ammo for the 45-70 overnighted to you before you leave or at the job sight or some 3" slugs for the 12 gauge. If you can't get any better ammo, I'm going to suggest using the hornady, I think. I'm not really comfortable with either of them in this case, the standard 12 gauge or the light bullet 45-70. Those are the most dangerous critters on the continent, and hard to kill. Of course you can kill either animal with either rifle, but what if things don't work out exactly as planned?
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Old June 14, 2010, 04:10 PM   #4
kodiakbeer
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You'd be well served by either choice. Ideally, you want the biggest, baddest load in either firearm, but standard loads will do just fine if that's what you have.

Bring the gun you shoot best or that is most portable. Shoot for the tip of the nose...
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Old June 14, 2010, 04:34 PM   #5
jgcoastie
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They aren't bulletproof or invincible. +1 to what kodiakbeer said.
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Old June 14, 2010, 09:51 PM   #6
Fat White Boy
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I'd get a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range...
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Old June 14, 2010, 10:32 PM   #7
30-30remchester
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SLATS what a great experence you are about to have. It has been years since I worked in the north country. Do you need a personal bodyguard that will bring his own armorment? I work cheap. Having never been chewed on by a polar bear can only speculate. According to what I have read by people who have ACTUALLY shot big bears, a 12 guage with slugs of Brenneke or Dixie brand are good as well as a Marlin 45-70 guide gun with Buffalo Bore heavy load ammo. I have studied terminal ballistics for years and the two most common failure are poor shot placement and improper ammo. Anyway how about posting some photos of your experence on your return.
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Old June 15, 2010, 02:33 AM   #8
Nnobby45
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Foster slugs are made soft so the hollow base will expand to fill up the bore. Bet they'd work fine for Black Bear on down.

Brenneke slugs are designed differently. They're HARD. They penetrate a lot, break heavy bone, and seem to be the choice of those who actually pack a shotgun in bear country. A .338 or .375 H&H packs more wallop, but the "poor man's express rifle" is pretty potent and I'd say one can operate a slide much quicker than a bolt at close range live or die distance.

However, in stead of listening to me, try to get opinions from those who've been there (if you haven't, already).

Browse around--there are lots of places where Brennekes are available on line.
Here's some 3" Brennekes in case you have two big bears coming at you one behind the other.


http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=91133


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...slugs_vs_bears

Last edited by Nnobby45; June 15, 2010 at 02:45 AM.
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Old June 15, 2010, 09:13 AM   #9
briandg
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Quote:
Foster slugs are made soft so the hollow base will expand to fill up the bore.
That's just not right. All slugs are fired on top of some wad. Brenneke and other slugs have attached wads. Sabots are fired with discarding wads. Fosters are set loose on top of a large column of pasteboard, cork, or even plastic wads. The wads are what seal the bore. The rifling on the foster is intended to allow the thing to swage down to fit bore and choke, and they're made of soft lead for the same purpose. The soft lead gave the added benefit of giving a bit of expansion, as on impact, they would flatten out a bit. On a side note, The brilliant marketing idea of a hollow point shotgun slug was an idiot's dream.

it is absolutely correct that the slugs used should be hard and penetrating, saboted slugs, not the fosters. I've got no problem using a soft lead lump against a human, or even a deer, because it will blow through ribs and tear a big hole through the vitals, but bears don't normally give you that sort of chance.
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Old June 15, 2010, 09:55 AM   #10
Slats
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Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I can't get ammo through the mail, the cost of shipping to my remote location is too prohibitive and I can't find the heavy duty stuff I'd need on any Canadian websites anyway (American ones won't ship across the border.) I reload, but everywhere I look is out of stock on most reloading supplies. I feel fairly confident that with some common sense and what I have to work with, I'll be safe.

3030...Thanks, I'm quite excited about it. I've worked all over the North, but this one definitely takes the cake....I'm doing a 10 day aerial survey for musk-ox and caribou out of Sachs Harbour on Banks Island in the Artic archipelago.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...9313,112.5&z=3
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Old June 15, 2010, 07:54 PM   #11
roberto mervicini
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Hi Slats, if still time there is a canadian company near Montreal that could ship you one excellent slug , Challenger ammunitions, they make a slug that in my opinion is as good or better than Brenneke, I had the opportunity to try one full case of 200 slugs, and did several test with 3- .12 gauge shot guns , two scoped ( winchester defender 18.5" and winchester pump with 24" deer slug barrel and one semi auto unscoped ( Franchi AL48 with 22" barrel), this slug key hole at 75 yard with both scope gun and with in 1.5" with the semi auto, they are perfect for a smoth bore also fine in a rifled barrels. best speed of is class and giroscopc action to mantain trajectory.
This cartridge is constructed with the proven Gualandi wads and slugs.
For additional info google "munitions challenger " once on the site select product, hunting, and slugs.
For info re the Elio Gualandi & C. wads and Bullets google "gualandy wads" click on Elio Gualandi, select slugs .
With a .12 ga and Challenger slug, bring the bear on....you are in business!!
Have a nice and safe trip.
_______
roberto
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Old June 16, 2010, 02:24 AM   #12
Nnobby45
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Quote:
That's just not right. All slugs are fired on top of some wad. Brenneke and other slugs have attached wads.
Before you just hop on some one and tell them they're wrong you should read what they posted.

I didn't say the soft slug sealed anything. Just said it was soft and hollow based so it would expand close to bore diameter. The reason is to keep it from rattling down the bore. I suspect that's a better "seal" than being loose.

As for the "rifling", it doesn't do a thing with regards to spinning the slug. I guess they put it there so they can make an association between rifling and accuracy. It's the weight forward design that keeps the slug going straight.
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Old June 16, 2010, 03:06 AM   #13
Nnobby45
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Quote:
The soft lead gave the added benefit of giving a bit of expansion, as on impact, they would flatten out a bit. On a side note, The brilliant marketing idea of a hollow point shotgun slug was an idiot's dream.

it is absolutely correct that the slugs used should be hard and penetrating, saboted slugs, not the fosters. I've got no problem using a soft lead lump against a human, or even a deer, because it will blow through ribs and tear a big hole through the vitals, but bears don't normally give you that sort of chance.
Yes, Sabots are the best penetrating of all--if you get the right ones. But the sabotted slugs are much smaller. Some, about .45 caliber. Brennekes are hard, penetrate very well, and are 72 caliber.

The caveat to Sabots is that: YOU NEED A RIFLED BORE.

Fosters and Brennekes are designed for smoothbores. They give about 3" accuracy at 50 yds. from my Scattergun Tech IC, or Cyl bore. Federals" Tru Ball will cut those groups in half.

The soft lead gives more than "a bit of expansion". A Federal LEO (who actually used slugs in his line of work) told our class that the Fostor slug "usually doesn't make it thru Bubba--but knocks him on his A@$" (OK, he was rather colorful)

Don't know if the HP is a bad marketing idea for Fosters. I've been told that the little dimple actually works for expansion. I wasn't impressed by the looks of it, either.

And the "rifled slug" market truly is brilliant. Sells lots of slugs, but does nothing what so ever to improve accuracy, or make the slug spin.

Phone books aren't living tissue, but Brennekes punch right thru, while Federal LE Tac Fosters open up like silver dollars going thru dry phone books in my own experimentation (OK, I was fooling around and thought I'd try it)

The Brennekes I've dissected have two types of wads. One (the 1 1/8 oz) is felt and is attached to the back with a wood screw! (honest). The other (1 oz) has a plastic wad assembly attached similarly. These are Rottweil brand. Can't speak for others.

Well, Slats, hope we haven't confused you too much.

Last edited by Nnobby45; June 16, 2010 at 05:58 PM.
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