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Old June 2, 2010, 04:38 PM   #1
givememygun
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Denied by a dealer!

I recently tried to purchase a firearm but was denied by a dealer after the background check was done. he called and told me that I can appeal the background check. I live in Texas and was arrested for felony theft a few months ago however, i have not been convicted nor indicted yet. Since i have not been convicted do they have a right to deny me my right to own a gun? Please advise.

Thanks
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:40 PM   #2
DiscoRacing
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IF you were arrested for it... then it means you are not cleared of it yet if you have not been to court for it... that means you are currently not cleared of a felony... in my op.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:40 PM   #3
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Well, if you have an arrest in 'the system' you're likely on a hard 'pause' for buying firearms.

Why the rush to go buy a gun now, post arrest, pre-trial?

IMO: people awaiting court disposition of a felony should NOT be allowed to purchase firearms.

Well, did you do it?!?!
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:43 PM   #4
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"denied by a dealer"

My guess is that the dealer didn't have anything to do with this. The 'denial' came from the FBI via the NICS background system. The FFL is just the messenger.
The FBI has a process to appeal if you think it's worth it.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:44 PM   #5
ScottRiqui
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Sounds like question 12) b. on the Form 4473 is what triggered the denial:

"Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year? (An information is a formal accusation of a crime by a prosecutor. See Definition 3.)"

You haven't been indicted yet, but has the prosecutor formally accused you?
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:44 PM   #6
bigrebnc1861
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In North Carolina just being arrested for a felony would disqualify you until you had been cleared of all charges.
Heck I was denied my first firearm purchase permit because I had forgotten about the littering charge that I plead gulity to. back in 1989. and I went to get my permit in 2009. I had to go back 30 days later and redo the paper and you can bet your last dollar I made sure I hade my

Last edited by bigrebnc1861; June 2, 2010 at 04:52 PM.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:47 PM   #7
mothermopar
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Scott, good research. Sounds like "givememygun" committed a SECOND felony other than the one he's charged with by lying on signed background paperwork for the federal government. *If he didn't lie, then the FFL missed his answer in the affirmative before processing the paperwork further and initiating a query of a federal database (NCIC).

givememygun, you better hope the ATF is not monitoring this forum, cause all they'll have to do is subpoena the internet company for your IP address and track you down.

You MAY have lied (knowingly) on a federal background check (albeit a cursory one) and are in-process in the courts for a felony charge.

You could have screwed yourself bad, dude. I'm not passing judgement, just statin' the facts.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:50 PM   #8
Bartholomew Roberts
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Not to mention under 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(6), it is unlawful:

"(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or
attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a
licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or
licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious
oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false,
fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely
to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with
respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or
other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the
provisions of this chapter;"

It is a federal felony punishable by fines and up to five years imprisonment.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:52 PM   #9
ScottRiqui
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Oh, I have no idea whether he lied or not. But if he put "yes" on 12b, I think that would answer the question as to why he was denied. Even if he answered "no" in good faith (I have to admit I'm not sure myself about what the "information/formally accused" part means exactly), whoever evaluated the application may have found out about the arrest and assumed that an indictment or formal accusation had taken place as well.

At the very least, the evaluator should have suspected that given the arrest, an indictment or accusation is likely forthcoming, and an applicant shouldn't be able to game the system by trying to squeak a 4473 in-between the arrest and the indictment/accusation.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:55 PM   #10
mothermopar
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I don't know the OP and I hope he's innocent of the theft charges... but then again, why is it that crooks always tend to screw up over and over again?!?!

*A bit off topic, but I think its still a vaild point of discussion, no?!?!
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:57 PM   #11
mothermopar
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Scott, IMO: the formal accusation would be the arrest?!?! Or are they talking indictment?!?! In some states, one can wave indictment proceedings... I wonder if our man givememygun did such?!?!
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:57 PM   #12
givememygun
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thanks for the input guys.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:59 PM   #13
mothermopar
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givememygun...

Did you commit the theft? How about the perjury on the FFL document?

Come on... now I gotta know!

*sincerely hope you are innocent of all charges.
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Old June 2, 2010, 04:59 PM   #14
ScottRiqui
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Quote:
Scott, IMO: the formal accusation would be the arrest?!?! Or are they talking indictment?!?! In some states, one can wave indictment proceedings... I wonder if our man givememygun did such?!?!
According to the form, an "information" is a formal accusation by a prosecutor, so I don't think that the arrest alone qualifies.

But I wouldn't be surprised if a statement from the prosecutor that they intend to seek an indictment would qualify as an "information". The fact that the grand jury hasn't convened yet wouldn't matter - the prosecutor has formally accused the subject by announcing his intention to pursue indictment/trial.
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:03 PM   #15
givememygun
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hmmmm...ok
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:07 PM   #16
mothermopar
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... and that intention by the prosecutor to do such need not be a formal presentation before the courts, but rather, it could be something as simple as the filing of the charges (paperwork)... I got it.

givememygun, seriously... what the hell happened with you here? How old are you? Lets start there.
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:10 PM   #17
givememygun
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mopar, don't waste your breath. thanks for the input guys.
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:13 PM   #18
ScottRiqui
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You're welcome - if it makes you feel any better, the odds of actually being prosecuted for providing false information on a 4473 (knowingly or otherwise) are fairly low. I can't find the stats right now, but I think only something like 1% of denials actually lead to any kind of prosecution for the applicant.

(Of course, some people get denied because of truthful answers on the 4473, but I think the dealer catches those before the form even gets transmitted to NCIS for the background check.)
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:16 PM   #19
givememygun
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gotcha. with this being said, i will not appeal the case. i guess ill just have to let this play out. thanks again guys. Mods, shut this one down.
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Old June 2, 2010, 05:19 PM   #20
mothermopar
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give,

Best of luck. If you're innocent, I hope you're cleared and get that fine shooter you want.
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