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Old May 31, 2010, 07:55 PM   #1
300magman
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Is this the most Dangerous Remington Yet?

I just bought a new remington 870 supermag waterfowl camo last week. It finally arrived in the mail today and after a quick wipe down I assembled it and took it out to try a few rounds.

Lucky for me, I decided to throw in a few light 1oz loads of birdshot because when I touched one off the gun opened up.

The first time it happened I thought perhaps I had shackled the action slightly when it recoiled because it had only just begun to open, so I fired another shot and the same thing happened....against my better judgement I tried it a third time, without holding my forehand on the grip at all...and without my hand to hold the action closed it opened Considerably.

I'm glad I wasn't firing a shell with any power as it would have cycled the action all the way open and ejected the shell....to say the least.

Here are a few pics of how far the action was opening, just so you can get an idea.

I'm going to call the dealer tomarrow, but who knows how much trouble this is going to turn into...I doubt I'll be lucky enough for them to pay the shipping back ($60) but I'm sure going to fight for it.
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:19 PM   #2
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That must be the new "quarter-matic".
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:22 PM   #3
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Nope, their most dangerous product continues to be the 710/770 series of rifles.

I think it's very reasonable to ask them to pay shipping both ways for what amounts to a DOA defect.
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:25 PM   #4
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My SuperNova does something similiar but it was designed that way. I'm not sure about the Remy. When you shoot the SuperNova it will disengage the slide like that just so that it is easier to move. Having said that, I've not noticed mine having that much movement, it just sort of releases the slide more than anything else.

Wish I had a better answer for you but I'm no shotgun guru. Hope they get it fixed for you.
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:53 PM   #5
300magman
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^^

Your supernova is designed that way? that seems a bit odd, if its blowing back as it recoils isn't it risking some of that pressure coming out the side of the gun? (especially if the shell, no longer contained by the chamber, breaches)

All slides (that I know of) "unlock" allowing the user to shackle in another round without having to manually hit the slide release, but to actually move...I would think there is a mechanism that should prevent that happening until after the full discharge has occured and the user intends the action to move.
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Old May 31, 2010, 09:58 PM   #6
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My SuperNova will unlock the fore-end after firing causing it to slide back about a quarter inch at most but the chamber doesn't open up at all. The fore-end just doesn't stay completely up unless a round is locked in the chamber. Certainly doesn't come open though.
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:02 PM   #7
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A "semi" automatic
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:22 PM   #8
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Watch closely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbCDf...eature=related
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:39 PM   #9
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Magman: I did not say that the chamber unlocked or moved, only that the slide moved back a little bit. Pretty much what Glock_19 said; guess he said it better.

The chamber doesn't open unless I actually pump the slide

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:44 PM   #10
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remington complaints seem to include most of their current line of products. i guess thats why mossberg is more popular for shotguns now and even savage's reputation seems to be growing over remington rifles. i guess remington is happy producing crap and trying to live off their "reputation".
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:56 PM   #11
300magman
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Okay....wait a second. That Youtube Video!
Did I just see that guys 870 open about a half inch as he fired it...did it just do that all by itself like mine or did he do that by accident when it recoiled?
Lets assume the gun did it by accident, that looked a lot like what mine is doing....am I wrong or is that a dangerous defect? I can't imagine that being the way they function now...my other 870's STAY CLOSED
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Old June 1, 2010, 06:16 AM   #12
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That is proper operation for an 870. Take a look at this:

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/an...w/870/r_id/166

Straight from the Remington FAQs.

There is nothing wrong with your 870.

If you use the search feature you will find many posts regarding this same "issue".

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ight=870+opens
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Old June 1, 2010, 06:44 AM   #13
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Me and a buddy of mine had recently picked up both 870's. New within the past year. He has the magnum 3.5 and i got the normal 3..Neither of ours do that unless we have force on the fore end already pulling back. I can understand the concept of having it crack open to allow for quick follow up shots but that looks excessive
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:12 AM   #14
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300magman,
Let's go back to square one… take a look at your extracted hulls pics, again. I don't see any indication of any pressure problems. If the bolt had opened while there was significant pressure in the barrel, wouldn't there be some bulging of the plastic and/or brass?
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:23 AM   #15
300magman
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Zippy - We can't look at that particular shell, I tossed the 3 fired shells into my truck (as I always pick up at the range) and when I got home I grabbed an empty at random out of the truck to put in there and snap a few quick pics so I could show people how far the gun was coming open....those pics are probably not of one of the actual shells fired in that gun as I didn't have a camera at the range.

But now that you mention it, I will take all the empties out of the truck (about 2 boxes worth) and see if I can tell which 3 were fired from that gun.
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Old June 1, 2010, 08:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Q: The action on my Model 870 opens when I fire it. Is this normal?

A: It is the design of the Model 870 for the action bar lock to disengage once the shell has been fired. This enables you to load and fire the second shot with more speed.

If you have any concerns regarding the safe operation of your firearm, you can take it to your closest Remington Authorized Repair Center for evaluation.
This is the Q&A from the Remington site RoscoeC linked. Personally I find it a somewhat unclear response. The question was "Should it Open" the reply was "It unlocks so that you can cycle it faster". Well, all my old 870s Unlock but they do not open At All, not even a little, and they cycle smoothly and with little resistance once I apply pressure.

So I'm still unclear, should the shotgun start to pump itself...or simply unlock so that I am free to pump it?


I was only using 1oz birdshot...what if I dropped in a 3.5" 2 1/8oz turkey load. It seems like I could expect the pump to come fully back and the shell to eject. Do I dare fire one?
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:13 AM   #17
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Relax. My 870's are well worn and very loosey goosey. If I shoot without my hand on the fore end, the older one will almost eject the shell using low recoil 00 buckshot. With very light one ounce birdshot, and a new gun it may or may not open. So what? Your job is to shoot it until it is so broken in and silky smooth that it does open.

There is no danger here. The breach is locked at the point of ignition and the pressure against the bolt and its locking lug will not allow it to open until the pressure has dissipated, i.e. the charge has left the barrel. Go shoot your new excellent 870, and stop worrying about a problem that doesn't exist.
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Old June 1, 2010, 11:26 AM   #18
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Over the years I’ve owned a bunch of pump guns. Remington, Ithaca, Winchester, Mossberg and even a S&W. All work basicly the same way. Upon firing the slide stop is released so bolt can be unlocked and you can pump the hull out. I have never had any brand that would unlock and move the bolt back after firing. Even my grandson’s new 870 Express with all its problems doesn’t do this.

What a shame, at one time Remington was a great gun. Now their design and quality control has gone to hell.
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:10 PM   #19
300magman
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I think I need to find a qualified gunsmith to ask this question.

On one hand I have all my previous experience being backed up by posters such as Hog Buster and on the other hand I have guys like RoscoeC saying exactly the opposite and making it sound like a question that is so obvious I shouldn't have even had to ask.

I love life's little dilemmas!
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:36 PM   #20
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Does the gun lock up solid before you pull the trigger?
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:37 PM   #21
300magman
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My Appologies

I will say this for Remington...thier customer service is top notch and second to none

I called them just now, expecting to spend hours going through the usual "press 1, 2, 3" routine, but in under 5 mintues I was actually talking to a human. And not the firearm ignorant secretary I expected, but a man who actually claimed to have 20 years experience with law enforcement and firearms first hand.

His reply to my question, was that 870's ARE designed to open upon firing. Given an 870 is clean and smooth enough they can open just as far as mine did when little or no grip is held on the slide. Apparently the pressure of the round discharging locks the battery from opening for the few miliseconds that pressure is present, after that the lock is disengaged and the recoil of the shotgun against the shooter can cause the action to begin to cycle. Therefore there is no worry as it is not the pressure of the discharge causing the gun to open but the later inertia/momentum (pardon my lack of terminology) from the recoil against the shooter.
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Old June 1, 2010, 03:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
On one hand I have all my previous experience being backed up by posters such as Hog Buster and on the other hand I have guys like RoscoeC saying exactly the opposite and making it sound like a question that is so obvious I shouldn't have even had to ask.
Welcome to the internet, my friend. For every piece of good information there is just as good a piece of misinformation. Sorting it out can be a real Fais do-do.

I too should apologize, because this is something that even folks that have shot shotguns for many years may not have noticed. But, "I have never seen a pump shotgun do this", doesn't mean it doesn't do it, it just means that a particular individual hasn't seen it.

I didn't mean to trivialize it, but I have seen the same question asked so many times...
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Old June 1, 2010, 06:56 PM   #23
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I just wasted about a box of shotgun shells trying to get 2 870 Wingmasters and 2 Model 37 Ithacas to move the bolt after unlocking. The Ithacas unlock after the shot, but there’s just the most imperceptable movement of the bolt back. The uncocked hammer keeps it from moving, even with the most vigorous shaking. Apparently hammer rebound is very slight in them.

The 870s had a bit more bolt movement, but not much. No where near the amount pictured at the beginning of this post. Vigorous shaking did not move the bolt farther back. The uncocked hammer stoped the movement rearward also. I presume that the 870 has more hammer rebound than the Ithaca therefore the bolt moves a bit more to the rear.

While not a very scientific test it satisfied me that I wasn’t crazy after many years of shotgunning. The guns I used are old and well shot, maybe the new ones are built different and have more hammer rebound, I have no idea.

Still I kinda have an idea about what may be causing this.. Recovering from recoil the shooter is momentarily putting backward pressure on the slide, forcing it to open a bit, but not enough to fully operate it. Of course this is just my opinion and sure ain’t worth much.

At any rate the testing helped me pass an otherwise hot and boring afternoon.
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Old June 1, 2010, 11:02 PM   #24
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I'm right there with you Hog Buster, (both in disbelief and theory)
If it wasn't raining like hell I'd be taking my other (older) 870s out and doing the same thing...I'm certain they don't move, but I want to fire them one more time and take a hard look! And I have 3 friends with older 870's that are probably coming along because they don't believe it either.

But its hard to ignore what the Remington guy said..."designed that way for over 20 years" So I guess I'll just keep firing my new supermag..nervous feelings and all.
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Old June 2, 2010, 01:28 AM   #25
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Over the years i have owned several pump shotguns, All do this to some extent. The winchester is the most free moving, but a BPS or 870 will get moving very easy if it is a very smooth one. It is what they where made to do. They unlock after firing, They call the winchester a "speed pump" for this feature.
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