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Old May 31, 2010, 01:33 PM   #1
TPAW
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Texas handgun law

Without a conceal carry, does the same rule that apply's to having a handgun in your car also apply to a motor cycle?
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Old May 31, 2010, 07:39 PM   #2
lwdaniel
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I don't know, the law says if you are in your motor vehicle...
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Old June 1, 2010, 03:34 AM   #3
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Old June 1, 2010, 08:52 AM   #4
carguychris
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I'm willing to go out on a limb and say yes, it applies the same way. A motorcycle is defined as a motor vehicle under Section 541.201(9) of the TX Transportation Code. Section 46.02 of the Penal Code allows unlicensed carry in a "motor vehicle" regardless of type, so strictly speaking, it appears to be legal.

OTOH I wouldn't do this on a motorcycle. The TX provision allowing unlicensed concealed carry in (or on!) a vehicle only allows the handgun to be carried when the operator is in (on) the vehicle or "directly en route to" it. The "en route" clause has been criticized for vagueness, but IMHO it's pretty clear that if one is leaving the vehicle to go somewhere where a CHL would normally be required- e.g. a public place like a grocery store or a restaurant rather than one's own property- one is violating the provision. This is problematic because it is inherently difficult to secure a handgun to a motorcycle without illegally exposing it to public view.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice. Caveat emptor.
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:22 AM   #5
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Texas really needs to pass an open carry statute. I can't believe you guys are so afraid of the sight of a gun down there!
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:54 AM   #6
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Texas really needs to pass an open carry statute. I can't believe you guys are so afraid of the sight of a gun down there!
...and how.

It's too hot here much of the time to carry concealed.

p
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:29 PM   #7
lwdaniel
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here the statute.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

(2) the person is:

(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;

(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or

(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.


You might want make an inquiry with the District Attorney in your area about the situation
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:37 PM   #8
hoytinak
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Without a conceal carry, does the same rule that apply's to having a handgun in your car also apply to a motor cycle?
Yes but if you get off that bike and you don't have your CHL the handgun has to stay concealed on the bike.
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Old June 1, 2010, 08:56 PM   #9
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Texas really needs to pass an open carry statute. I can't believe you guys are so afraid of the sight of a gun down there.
Nope, Texas needs VERMONT CARRY! That is, no license needed to pack a gun! Vermont, Alaska, and soon (hopefully) Montanna!

As long as no felony record, I don't see why not. If you have the right to own them, then you have the right to carry them.

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Old June 1, 2010, 09:28 PM   #10
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That is a tough one. I ride every day and carry, but I have a CHL. Before I had the CHL I would not have tempted fate. So I guess my answer is "Get a CHL and don't worry about it any more"


Quote:
Texas really needs to pass an open carry statute. I can't believe you guys are so afraid of the sight of a gun down there!
As soon as we can "make unemployed" certain of our legislators, we'll make that happen
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Old June 1, 2010, 09:30 PM   #11
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AZ joined that group couple weeks ago. Maybe effective date has not arrived yet.
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Old June 4, 2010, 10:34 AM   #12
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Be nice to have open carry here, tho the heat issue is a red herring ... I pocket carry a PM9 all the time in cargo shorts during the summer, no problemo ...
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Old June 4, 2010, 11:13 AM   #13
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Glad I live in Indiana. While we do have to have a license to carry, it is just that, "License to Carry Handgun". That means concealed or open. Very few restrictions on where carry is not permitted. Restaurants and bars are OK. Signs saying "no weapons" do not have force of law. You must leave if requested or it is trespassing but no firearms violation. AND the license is available as "lifetime". No renewal. Indiana recognizes ALL other state permits and licenses to carry. Come on up and visit.
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Old June 4, 2010, 02:06 PM   #14
Charles Ellis
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I just called a local CCW instructor and he said that as long as the firearm is concealed on the motorcycle and not on the riders person it would be legal.The down side to this is that once you arrive at your destination you must leave the firearm concealed on the motorcycle to remain legal.
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Old June 6, 2010, 10:35 AM   #15
carguychris
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I just called a local CCW instructor and he said that as long as the firearm is concealed on the motorcycle and not on the riders person it would be legal.
The instructor is incorrect, but this is a common misconception. Penal Code 46.02(2)(a-1)(1) only prohibits carrying the handgun in plain view; it says nothing about the manner in which the handgun is concealed. Therefore, it is implicitly legal for the handgun to be concealed on the driver and/or owner's body. However, as I stated earlier, the problem occurs when one leaves the vehicle.

Just as an aside, the statute only protects two people: the driver and the vehicle's owner. A passenger may not legally carry unless he or she owns the vehicle.
Quote:
The down side to this is that once you arrive at your destination you must leave the firearm concealed on the motorcycle to remain legal.
This is generally correct, although the "en route" clause is generally understood to mean that the driver or owner may legally carry between the vehicle and his or her residence.
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Old June 6, 2010, 10:58 AM   #16
NavyLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
The instructor is incorrect, but this is a common misconception. Penal Code 46.02(2)(a-1)(1) only prohibits carrying the handgun in plain view; it says nothing about the manner in which the handgun is concealed. Therefore, it is implicitly legal for the handgun to be concealed on the driver and/or owner's body. However, as I stated earlier, the problem occurs when one leaves the vehicle.
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.


How can a person be "inside of" a motorcycle?
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Old June 7, 2010, 10:21 AM   #17
carguychris
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How can a person be "inside of" a motorcycle?
That's an excellent question. The statute does not directly address motor vehicles without enclosed passenger cabins, although IMHO someone riding a motorcycle should meet the intent of the statute.

After rereading the Penal Code and Transportation Code, one could bring up another possible legal nitpick regarding the definition of "inside"...
Quote:
Sec. 541.201 VEHICLES. In this subtitle:

{subsections 1-3 omitted}

(4) "Farm tractor" means a motor vehicle designed and used primarily as a farm implement to draw an implement of husbandry, including a plow or a mowing machine.
A farm tractor is legally considered a motor vehicle in TX, so unlicensed CCW is theoretically legal while operating one. Modern farm tractors are often available with an open seat or an enclosed climate-controlled cabin. Does this mean that unlicensed CCW is legal in an enclosed tractor but illegal in an otherwise identical open one? What if it has a roof but open sides- is the operator "inside"? Where is the line drawn?
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