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Old June 1, 2010, 02:02 PM   #26
johns7022
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Leave the gun inside...then you can mess with the drunk....
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Old June 1, 2010, 02:30 PM   #27
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Leave the gun inside...then you can mess with the drunk....
Unless the drunk has a gun... or a knife... or breaks his wino-bottle on the curb and comes at you with it, or is just Pretending to be drunk and stupid so he can get close to you while his buddy comes up behind you and breaks said wino-bottle over your head and robs your unconcious body before breaking into your house and stealing said weapon and everything else valuable. There's a reason we don't leave our guns inside, and instead choose to keep them on our person. Drunk or not, a threat is a threat. People aren't less accountable for their drunken actions or words than their sober ones. And you should approach intoxicated individuals with as great or greater ware than sober ones.
Preferably while armed to protect yourself.

~LT
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Old June 1, 2010, 06:16 PM   #28
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Mozilla Firefox is a web browser that comes with a handy spell checker for forums such as this.

Punctuation is simply a matter of practice.
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Old June 1, 2010, 06:55 PM   #29
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Oldbear, some folks just don't have as good a crystal ball as yours. Sometimes (almost always really) there is no real ringing of a bell or anything to signal it is time to put you gun on.

As to the original question, I think I would have pepper sprayed the old reprobate and then called the law while he was writhing on the gravel and trying to stem the snot stream. That's just me though. Alternately I would leave and call the police.
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:44 PM   #30
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Oldbear, some folks just don't have as good a crystal ball as yours.
No crystal ball sir, I’m just careful not paranoid.
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:53 PM   #31
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Edit; To each his own I guess.
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Old June 2, 2010, 08:43 AM   #32
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With no disrespect intended to the authors of any previous posts, I am kind of amazed that being unexpectedly confronted by a belligerent drunk is considered by some to be an example of why we should not go about armed for defensive action! Isn't this, rather, an example of how potential danger can arise at any moment, and our vigilance should therefore be constant? Belligerent drunks choose to be both drunk and belligerent, and if the firearm was not in view it is highly likely that the sot would have found some other excuse for belligerence. Who knows how this might have ended without a firearm being present?
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Old June 9, 2010, 12:38 AM   #33
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Sounds like you handled this well. You never know what a drunk or junkie will do. Such things are why I usually prefer CCW. My state allows OC but it is still risky. I did do my first public OC today though. Went to scope a job in a BAD neighborhood. Thugs had cut all the copper wire out of a vacant house. Also cut open the outdoor AC and stole the copper/aluminum coils. I'd been by yesterday and seen lots of scummy characters around. I told owner I would be carrying when I returned. He is a martial arts instructor, was OK with it. I OC'd crossdraw style. Not blatantly obvious to the casual passerby. Very clear to someone approaching me, which is what I wanted this time. If challenged, would tell them I knew the neighborhood, was fixing crime damage and would not be a sitting duck. Having owner's permission, not straying from his yard, I had little chance of being charged with "terror of the public".

I think in most places, we still have to go slow with OC. I believe in that and CCW. Only person I would be afraid of would be either someone strutting around showing off, or someone carrying in an obviously unsafe manner. Someone on another thread mentioned seeing a guy carrying in his hip pocket. Much too easy to snatch. But many people have been brainwashed the last few decades and go paranoid at the sight. Not entirely their fault, that's how they were taught. We should be careful how we carry and be considerate of others as much as possible. Maybe we should have a thread with ideas on how to slowly acclimate our communities to the OC concept. I am pleased with the progress that's been made. In my lifetime, CCW was forbidden in my state to most anyone except LEO and OC, while legal, was strongly discouraged.

Check out the Starbucks/Facebook columns. Lots of pro and anti gun people posted there. I was proud that most GO's stated their thoughts well. Some of the anti's were OK, respectfully disagreeing. A few anti's were off the wall. But worst was 1 guy, bragging that "yea, he carried on his hip and people were scared of him for good reason", something like that. Many other GO's blasted him, that he was hurting our cause and making the case for the anti's. If I wasn't a fan of guns, was checking things out and saw him, end of discussion. The better ambassadors we are, the better chance of proving our case and maybe winning over a few hearts and minds. Or softening if not winning over.
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Old June 9, 2010, 01:32 AM   #34
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I am quite amazed at the anti open carry sentiment on this forum. I open carry for the simple reason that I have the right too. If it makes you uncomfortable, then to bad it not my issue. Get over yourselves and support each others rights to carry how they choose. Its almost as bad as gun hunters and archery hunters. The second amendment does not say how or what we can have but rather that we can, so we should.
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Old June 9, 2010, 07:45 AM   #35
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I am quite amazed at the anti open carry sentiment on this forum.
I don't have any problem with open carry, but I don't usually do this myself, unless I'm on private land. The one time I voiced an objection to open carry was when folks were strapping on unloaded guns to their belts just to prove a point at starbucks. That just rubs me the wrong way - probably because the only point to doing this is to tick-off other people or to be flashy - as in men wearing flashy jewelery which I don't much care for either.

Open carry with a loaded firearm for protection, laws permitting - no problem with it.
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Old June 9, 2010, 03:09 PM   #36
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Need another reason? Guys, everybody here is acutely aware that there are plenty of people out there that would like to see us disarmed, and they search the Internet for ammo to discredit those of us that support the 2nd Amendment. Poor or slothful posting on forums like this does exactly that.
I third that motion.

And now, back to my pipe and a bit of Hume's Treatise of Human Nature.

Sadly, I'm not even kidding.
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Old June 23, 2010, 12:07 PM   #37
DanThaMan1776
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I would have left.. not worth shooting him if it escalated and it's not even a matter of standing up for yourself when the perp is a drunk
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Old June 23, 2010, 12:16 PM   #38
KingEdward
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the best thing is to move on and make distance while not turning
one's back to a possible threat.

I probably would have made a little distance while saying things like
"sir, please stop threatening me", "sir, please stop" "sir, don't come
any closer."

There's always someone afterwards who will talk to the cops who you
never see or didn't know their window was open and they saw/heard
everything.

I would not challenge the drunk, or tell him to **** off and get lost.

I would say and be the passive one. Unless he chose otherwise.
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Old June 23, 2010, 02:05 PM   #39
Charles Ellis
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Correct puncutation or not,I had no trouble reading and understanding Puntmefar's post,and don't know why anyone would care.I quit worring about correct puncutation and perfect spelling when I no longer had to write papers for college classes.Puntmefar,ignore the jerks and stay with the forum.There is a wealth of information here,and a lot of good people as well.As to your question,You could have retreated,called the police,or any number of other things that may have been better or may have only made the situation worse.What you did worked and that is what matters.That said,never turn your back on,or trust this man in any way.He has already demonstrated his intentions toward you.BE SAFE.
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Old June 23, 2010, 02:35 PM   #40
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Since you were having a jam session, I would just smash a guitar over his head if he got close enough, especially after several warnings. I'm not sure lethal force is justified unless the drunk demonstrates that he has the means to carry out his threat.
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Old July 14, 2010, 12:23 AM   #41
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Jerks?

I don't have a problem with how the OP handled the situation. As for people who open carry, while some might look askance at the sight, I believe the more we expose people to non-threatening integration of firearms into every day society, the better we'll be in the long run.
People also open carry unloaded weapons into Starbucks in California in order to comply with their laws regulating OC. They're allowed to have a loaded magazine on their person though, I believe. So it's not just an exercise in empty symbolism as some might contend.
As for what has sprung up as a secondary issue on this post, that of the use of proper written English to express our thoughts, I'm surprised to read that people are willing to label others as "jerks" for asking that we adhere to certain standards in our posts. Can we leave off the name calling and use a little common sense? There's nothing wrong with asking for a minimal effort in punctuation, spelling and sentence structure. There's also nothing wrong with someone who, lacking those skill sets, posts here in their own manner.
I'm not saying TFL must relax their standards to the point of mongrelizing the English language. Just be a little understanding when someone openly admits he lacks the education to fully comply.
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Old July 14, 2010, 01:22 PM   #42
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fawcettlee, I agree with you 100%. I think that had someone sent him a pm and offered to work with him on his post it would have worked out better and the OP could have thought about it and accepted the help or not. I would like to think that the OP is a wise man and would welcome the chance to improve his writing and communication skills so that he can make good use of the forum in exchanging information with us all.
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Old July 14, 2010, 01:39 PM   #43
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what would you do ?

Tell the jerk that if he wants to keep his jaw in one piece, then he'd be wise to keep it shut every time he sees me.
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Old July 14, 2010, 04:02 PM   #44
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WOW....
What a world we live in.
...When your fellow gun totin' chatters think maybe you should have walked away from a place you had a right to be.
...When a gun enthusiast suggests that you forget about your right to OC.
...When the BG has more rights than the law abiding citizen.
.........Next time, hand your gun over to a fellow CCW holder for safe-keeping and show the BG how a good old country asswhoopin works. The use of a gun isn't always needed, so why should we all think it should be a factor with an unarmed BG? Sometime Dad has to let the Son know where the line is, and if his Daddy never taught him then someone may need to teach him.

just my nickle's worth of opinnion...
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Old July 15, 2010, 07:41 AM   #45
LordTio3
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Next time, hand your gun over to a fellow CCW holder for safe-keeping and show the BG how a good old country asswhoopin works.
Oddly enough, I have employed exactly this action in the past to great effect. Some kid was confronting me in a bowling alley years ago. I really look like your average Joe most all the time. He had been drinking (still no excuse in my book) and saw my 5' 9", 165lb frame and decided he wanted to get in a fight that night and I was going to be the guy. I attempted to diffuse the confrontation on every front that came up. He started "mouthing off" about 'That A--hole' (me) for no real reason at all. I asked him to calm down and explained that no one wanted trouble, and that everyone was there to have fun. His banter escalated to insults and then to threats. Still, I was attempting to diffuse the situation.

Then the insults and threats started in on the four ladies that we had brought with us. Now I'm not quick to anger, but there are certain things that I won't stand for and this is one of them. It's how I was raised, and you never insult or threaten a woman like that. "Let's take this outside. 'CCW Buddy' give me a hand." -He finishes his beer and we walk outside to the parking lot out front.

I lock in eye-contact with this kid and in plain view of him and his other friend that followed us outside, I slowly began disarming myself and handing my weapons to my friend. First was my 3" tactical blade from my pocket. I then bent down and revealed my 4" boot knife before handing it off. I pulled up my shirt and drew my Glock 19 and my spare magazine from my pocket and handed them to my friend. All done very matter-of-factly without any threat or intimidation, but I never broke eye contact. I look this kid down and got into my Jeet Kune Do strong forward stance and stayed there waiting for him to make the first move.

The steady decline of his enthusiasm throughout this entire process was priceless. I waited in ready stance for about 5 or 6 seconds before he did the smartest thing he did that whole night. With a "Man, F*** this guy." he and his friend continued out into the parking lot and got into their car." I re-armed myself and went about my night out.

Now, not only did 'CCW buddy have both of my knives and my Glock, but he had a 3" Buck and a 4" xD 9mm too and was a state wrestler in high school with his 5'3" 135 lb frame. Another "you wouldn't expect it" kind of guy. These guys really picked the wrong group to mess with, but through simple structured escalation and confident confrontation, this situation didn't even come to blows. Had I told this guy off in the Alley, who knows what would have happened. Maybe nothing; maybe we would have gotten jumped in the parking lot on our way out (one of the threats). Maybe we would have had to draw our weapons. I don't know. But I do know that not every situation calls for a gun to be employed even if you have it at your disposal. I believe the saying goes, "If a hammer is your only tool, you'll see every situation as a nail." I could have hammered that guy (or threatened to) but instead, took the time to read the situation and get creative in order to de-escalate it; and it worked.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm sure there's a lesson in my story somewhere.

~LT
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Old July 15, 2010, 07:54 AM   #46
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.........Next time, hand your gun over to a fellow CCW holder for safe-keeping and show the BG how a good old country asswhoopin works. The use of a gun isn't always needed, so why should we all think it should be a factor with an unarmed BG? Sometime Dad has to let the Son know where the line is, and if his Daddy never taught him then someone may need to teach him.
To a town drunk? Really? That's very mature. You be acting like a coward bully taking on the town drunk who is such a menace to your big ego. Give me a break.
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Old July 15, 2010, 08:01 AM   #47
LordTio3
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To a town drunk? Really? That's very mature. You be acting like a coward bully taking on the town drunk who is such a menace to your big ego. Give me a break.
The town drunk who makes it a habit to go onto peoples' property and threaten them with physical assault and theft of property? Deadly property? That's not a threat to ego in my book, that's a threat of bodily harm or death by an unstable and uninhibited individual. Perhaps you've never been physically confronted by an intoxicated individual that is intent on a violent altercation. I have been, several times over. They are to be taken seriously. One should try extensively to diffuse and avoid them, but at some point you must make it your business to let the other person know that if you are attacked or provoked, you intend to defend yourself accordingly. This usually works wonders, as it did in this case, and in the case of my situation which I illustrated above.

~LT
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Old July 15, 2010, 07:05 PM   #48
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You know, if we all stop and think about it.....
...remember how many times we have all witnessed a bully getting away with his/her actions simply because they could? Ever since I was a kid I have been dealing with it. Now, I am a bit bigger than most of those bullys. So when I see them treating others like dirt, I am not afraid to step up and call their bluff. They usually do back off. I have even had a store clerk call the police because I stepped in to prevent a father from smacking his small boy(about 3 yrs old) in the face again. Geuss what, the cop thanked me for getting involved.

I don't care what the bully/trouble maker/BG/drunk's problem is, they have no right to interfere with a legal, law abiding citizens life. And the sooner they learn that the better off we will all be.
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Old July 16, 2010, 11:03 AM   #49
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*sigh*

Sorry for missing this one earlier, people, but good grief:
  • personal insults
  • blowing off rule four of the Forum Rules
  • bickering over someone blowing off rule four of the Forum Rules
  • rudeness
  • more insults
  • chest-beating and blather and bloodthirstiness

The reasons to close this are many. Too bad~!

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