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Old May 31, 2010, 12:39 PM   #1
Puntmefar
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what would you do ?

I was doing a tune up on my truck the other day had my gun on my hip at 3 o'clock as allways and I got a bit hot so i took my top shirt off exposing my gun (button up short sleve) open carry is legal here so no biggie. Once i was done with the tune up I steped acrossed the alley leaving my top shirt in the truck to my friends house directly behind my house. A older man was there with him who usually rides a bike down the alley and stops to listen to us play (we have a southern rock band). After a few minutes the older guy looks at me and boldly says " ill beat you down and take your gun " up till that point I havent payed much attention to him he is our local drunk. That being said I replyed to him simply "dont worrie about my gun its staying ware it is", knowing he was a drunk I was trying to be polite how ever he insisted he was going to take it more verbaly agressivle each time untill I finally had to tell him he would not get to it and and told him that was he end of the discussion. Still he insisted and I had to get verbally agressive at this point and he finally droped the subject. I am REAL glad he didnt act on his threat. It never got to a physical confrontation and my gun never had to be drawn. What might have been done better in that situation ? Please remember OC is my right in my home state i dont often use.
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Old May 31, 2010, 12:56 PM   #2
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Drunk guy threatening? Open Carry? No one was hurt? Southern Rock? All seems fine to me

Had he done anything you would have the law on your side. You attempted to defuse, you had the right to be where you were, you did not instigate, and he was chemically imbalanced.

Some people will say that you could have avoided the situation entirely by not OCing. To that hypothetical I would respond "what if the drunk had been planning to rob them but saw the gun and decided to back off?".

One could make a comment on your situational awareness when you are working on a car, though, especially if you are under it. It's hard to see, people can sneak up on you easily. Glad to hear no one was hurt.
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:11 PM   #3
threegun
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Quote:
What might have been done better in that situation
prevent it by not open carrying. Perhaps threatening to call police. You did fine though.

Quote:
"what if the drunk had been planning to rob them but saw the gun and decided to back off?".
What if he was planning on robbing them but saw the gun and decided to shoot them?
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:52 PM   #4
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Puntmefar,

These are for you: ................. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Could you go back and place these where they belong so I could understand what you are trying to tell us? I'm not sure who was drunk and if it was known or assumed.
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Old May 31, 2010, 02:03 PM   #5
old bear
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With all due respect, why did you feel the need to carry a weapon when you working on your vehicle, then walking across the alley to your friends house? Yet in the end it sounds like you handled the situation well, it did not escalate into a fight.

As for what I may do, depending on how well I knew the guy. when he sobered up I would explain to him that his behavior was not acceptable and it would not be tolerated again.

Have a safe Memorial Day all.

Last edited by old bear; May 31, 2010 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Sp.
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Old May 31, 2010, 02:04 PM   #6
Puntmefar
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45Gunner thats exactly why I stoped posting on this forum for awhile other pepole aprently understood my post if my puncuation or spelling isnt up to your standards than simply ecusse it or simply dont reply to the post it doesnt really matter to me if you do. I would apreciate it if you would not try to make other users feel stupid by pointing out their flawed post as you see it. All events are in the order they occured. This is the last I will reply to a post atempting to corect spelling/puncuation in this thread. To the staff and fellow users I do apoligize for this off topic reply. Have a nice day.
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Old May 31, 2010, 02:10 PM   #7
Puntmefar
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Old Bear I carry my gun every place I go excluding work since my work place is restricted by law and is in a secured area. I belive since I cant predict when I may need to defend myself its better to have my weapon secured on my person and not need it than to have it secured at home and need it. You do ask a valid question thank you for asking.
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Old May 31, 2010, 03:40 PM   #8
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What might have been done better in that situation ?
You could leave. Alternatively, call the cops. He committed a verbal assault with a witness present and would have gone to jail for it.
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Old May 31, 2010, 03:45 PM   #9
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With all due respect, why did you feel the need to carry a weapon when you working on your vehicle, then walking across the alley to your friends house?
With all due respect - I put my weapon on when I get dressed in the morning and take it off when I go to bed at night. I carry it cutting the grass and taking out the trash. I carry it going to the mailbox. I carry it going to the bathroom. The day I don't carry because I "don't feel a need" is the day I'll have the need.
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Old May 31, 2010, 04:38 PM   #10
mete
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Avoid in any way ,leave ,call police for the verbal threat .Never in any way esculate !

CWP, I still have the suggestions given to me for a carry permit years ago .One of the suggestions is to carry only when you need it ! They didn't say anything about getting a crystal ball !
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Old May 31, 2010, 04:45 PM   #11
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Like a Facebook relationship, It's Complicated.

On one hand, if he tries to take your gun then that's essentially assault with a deadly weapon and you'd theoretically be justified in the use of deadly force.

On the other hand, if you have a chance to withdraw then you're going to be expected (probably by law) to do so if you know that kind of situation is developing.

I'd have told him that I was going to call the cops if he didn't leave, and then done so if he didn't. If he made an attempt to get my gun, I'd do pretty much whatever I could to keep away from him until the cops came. I think it would be better to run away than to fight with the guy, regardless of any kind of stand-your-ground rule that might be in place.

Regardless, IANAL, TINLA. Good luck.
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Old May 31, 2010, 05:54 PM   #12
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Last edited by napg19; May 31, 2010 at 08:25 PM.
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:10 PM   #13
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45Gunner thats exactly why I stoped posting on this forum for awhile other pepole aprently understood my post if my puncuation or spelling isnt up to your standards than simply ecusse it or simply dont reply to the post it doesnt really matter to me if you do. I would apreciate it if you would not try to make other users feel stupid by pointing out their flawed post as you see it. All events are in the order they occured. This is the last I will reply to a post atempting to corect spelling/puncuation in this thread. To the staff and fellow users I do apoligize for this off topic reply. Have a nice day.
This is a mature, adult forum. Adult subject matter. All posters are expected to be able to express themselves at an adult level. Please review this post that outlines these expectations:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=Raise+the+bar

If you are unable/unwilling to comply with these expectations, you may find yourself unwelcome here.
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:10 AM   #14
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what would you do ?

In order

1. tell him to get lost

2. caution him against making any stupid moves that will result in him being seriously injured

3. call the cops to remove him and file a complaint after he ignores 1 and 2

4. going forward, let him know he's no longer welcome at your jam sessions

He'll find someone else to bother.
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:17 AM   #15
Dwight55
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What might have been done better in that situation ?
Puntmefar, . . . I don't know Louisville well, . . . but I know big cities well, . . . and anyone jackhammering you for OC probably lives in a "safe" suburb where they don't see the need. I easily understand your need.

As for the incident, . . . the first time he yapped about taking my gun, . . . I would have sized him up as one of two: a credible threat, wherein I would have backed up and called 911, then, there, with no hesitation, . . . OR, . . . a simple drunk, and I would have just backed out and left.

Personally, I think you handled it as well as could be expected for the first time out in that scenario: no blood, no foul, no harm, . . . but I would never turn my back on the drunk, ever, period. Under the influence, he allowed his inner self to come to the surface, his latent tendencies, and some day when he is more sober or more drunk, . . . the actions may be played out. Watch him.

May God bless,
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:20 AM   #16
Puntmefar
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Ok thats enough I can see pepole like orionengnr and 45Gunner have no respect for any one who doesnt meet their standards. That being said I choose to not take part in this forum any longer. If my writing skills do not meet your standards than it seams to me thats your issue to deal with rather than mine. To those of you who have a bit of tolerance twards less than expert writing skills I sincearly wish you a great and safe day. Should understanding and tolerance ever come to this site it would truly be a free open forum.
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Old June 1, 2010, 07:34 AM   #17
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Isn't he the town drunk? I asume you live in a small town, quite small if you only have one town drunk. If so, everyone in town knows this guy. And you have to take threats and evaluate their seriousness depending of different factors, among them who makes it, under what circumstances and the probability of the threat being executed by the, shall we say verbal aggresor.

This is the small town drunk you probably know through most of your life, gets drunk and listens to your music.

I think your missing facts, specialy those that demonstrate this town drunk is a threat to you or your comunity. I he's not a reasonable threat, why are you wasting your time arguing with the town drunk? Makes you look like an armed agresor, even when you where answering his initial threat. Without other facts representing that the town drunk represents a threat, I say you over reacted to a drunken fool.
Remember that no matter what happens, in the end he is a town drunk who is a fool and you should be the reasonable and level headed.
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Old June 1, 2010, 09:02 AM   #18
Dannyl
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With all due respect - I put my weapon on when I get dressed in the morning and take it off when I go to bed at night. I carry it cutting the grass and taking out the trash. I carry it going to the mailbox. I carry it going to the bathroom. The day I don't carry because I "don't feel a need" is the day I'll have the need.
Well said CWpinSC, and that makes two of us, I would have answered exactly as you did.


to the OP, a bit of verbal aggression (or even a big measure of it) is far better than any other form of violence, so there is nothing wrong with what you did.
that is why in addition to my gun I carry a small can of some powerfull pepper spray (this one squirts a liquid, which is less likely to blow back on your face and has a slightly better effective range) it gives me a good non-lethal option to resolve matters without getting in to physical contact.

As for the use of puntuation and 100% correct language? IMO as far as one is not abusive or insulting it means very little, I think we should all be more tolerant and helpful. the OP asked for advice on a situation, not for an English lesson. this is an adult / mature forum, and as such I believe we should focus on what matters. perhaps the fact that I have always lived in countries where there is more thatn one official languages, or ciitizens are immigrants from many corners of the world (Like the US was at one stage) has made me less sensitive to the incorrect use of a language.

Brgds,

Danny
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:17 AM   #19
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I figure that there are people that will not follow the rules no matter what the rules are, as well as people who will tell me what I need to do in order to properly follow the rules. Fortunately more are somewhere in between. If it becomes too difficult to understand the wording of someones post, I simply move on. Too much is being presented for me to waste time trying to understand something. While this might be a waste of bandwidth, it also might be useful information I miss out on.

Don't sweat the small stuff.
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:54 AM   #20
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Wow... let's settle down...

Puntmefar:

Welcome back to TFL and please don't be discouraged by a few nit-pickers. There are always a few in the bunch. Personally, I believe everything I really need to know, I learned from my mother at an early age. This one in particular should deal with giving constructive responses, or keeping your nit-pickey post-count down for the day. I clearly understood everything you said. I wish to respond constructively. If I was annoyed, I'd hit the <Back> button.

Personally, I feel that you handled yourself admirably. Specifically with the phrase, "Don't worry about my gun, it's staying where it is." This says many things with one simple phrase.
1. I am not a threat to you.
2. You need not worry about my weapon.
3. I do not wish to engage you, but if you engage me, you will not get my weapon.
And it could be taken any or all of these ways by the target.
-Well done.

One thing I could have added that I would need clarification on was the exact position of the encounter. Were you headed to your friend's house and were stopped? Or were you on your property before the alley? Or were you on your friends' property? If you were on the city-owned street/alley (public property) and the encounter escalated, it could have been a much more messy issue to clean up for the DA/your lawyer. However, if you had spoken to him while moving to, or further into, your or your friends' property and he followed you onto your/friends' property in order to escalate the situation, you are justified in a more clean-cut sense if it came to you defending your life; and it would end up being a much simpler issue of tresspassing, threatening, and assault.

Besides, I believe you have the Castle Doctrine in Kentucky as well. I know we do in Indiana.

Hope this helps and good job making sure everyone got home okay. Lord knows there are too many carriers who are just waiting for an opportunity to "throw down".

~LT
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Old June 1, 2010, 12:28 PM   #21
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Thought you handled it well.

The only thing I mighta done differently is actually call the police, using their non-emergency number. Several purposes served here. First, the guy is drunk in public and he's making threats - both, whether individually or combined, are illegal, and that calls for a visit from the boys in blue (or whatever they wear in Louisville). Second, even without an arrest or charges against the drunk, a good talking-to from the police might chasten him somewhat. Finally, and in the extreme eventuality, you establish a record of his past beligerent, threatening behavior (or even a pattern of such behavior, if it came to that), which may help exonerate you if you ever did have to resort to violence of any kind to defend yourself in the future.

Just my thoughts.
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Old June 1, 2010, 12:52 PM   #22
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It looks as though the thread has gone from Puntmefar's original problem to one of grammar and spelling.

Actually, orionengnr is correct, although he could've referenced the forum rules rather than a thread with 275 posts . Simply put, and from the forum rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Rules
4) Mangling of the English language whether thru ignorance, age, sloth or intent diminishes and embarrasses each of us. Posts which are indecipherable due to inability to translate thoughts into coherent written statements will be deleted without explanation. Recidivists will be removed.
Look guys; we're not out to be the grammar police, nor do we have any desire to become that. We don't expect perfection, but we do expect a reasonable attempt to post in an intelligent and decipherable manner.

Run-on sentences with no punctuation make for difficult reading, and does a disservice to our members. It only takes a moment to throw a few commas and periods into a post.

As to spelling, improper use of words have started wars. For those who have difficulty spelling, there's an easy fix: Compose your post in your computer's word processor and use that spell check, or download and use a free spell-check utility such as iespell.

Need another reason? Guys, everybody here is acutely aware that there are plenty of people out there that would like to see us disarmed, and they search the Internet for ammo to discredit those of us that support the 2nd Amendment. Poor or slothful posting on forums like this does exactly that.

Once again, see my sig. line.

Now that that's settled, let's get back to Puntmefar's original problem .
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:14 PM   #23
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Need another reason? Guys, everybody here is acutely aware that there are plenty of people out there that would like to see us disarmed, and they search the Internet for ammo to discredit those of us that support the 2nd Amendment. Poor or slothful posting on forums like this does exactly that.


A,A,A, +1 to that.

To many people, not just anti gun folks, tend to see us as uneducated redneck fools whom are just looking for any reason to "whip" out our guns and start shooting. Each and everyone of us MUST Remember anything we post on this or any forum could be used to reinforce their incorrect stereotypes.
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:51 PM   #24
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I make it a firm point not to talk to drunks, bums or idiots. They can blibber-blabber all they want, but I refuse to acknowledge them. That doesn't mean I don't watch them.....and prepare, but I ain't talking to them.

Nothing good comes from talking to drunks. You wouldn't banter with a rabid dog, would you? At best, it makes you look stupid, wastes your time and raises your blood presure. At worst, it encourages the drunk to attack you and distracts you from taking necessary measures to properly protect yourself.

Last edited by Skans; June 1, 2010 at 02:16 PM.
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:58 PM   #25
Brian Pfleuger
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I will add to the chorus of those who would vacate the premises post-haste.

I will not talk to a drunk.

I don't open carry but if I did, I would IMMEDIATELY vacate the area of ANY person who made mention of touching/taking/firing/stealing said firearm.

Leaving immediately can not be over stated.

He who is armed has a GREATER responsibility to avoid conflict that he who is not armed.
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