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Old May 30, 2010, 12:10 PM   #1
wyobohunter
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Loaning a SD/HD handgun to a friend.

My friend lives in an out of the way (by most standards) part of the Kenai Peninsula. It isn't exactly remote but it can take well over 30 minutes for a state trooper to show up. They have a neighbor who has recently started acting crazy and has been a little threatening. We figure either he's off his meds or he's self medicating

My buddy works on the North Slope and is gone for two weeks at a time, leaving his wife & two young girls at home alone. They don't (yet) have a suitable self defense firearm for her so I've offered (with my wifes blessing) to bring over the wifes Ruger SP101 and a box of .38 Spcl. so she can get familiar with it in the back yard. We've offered to let them borrow it until she gets something of her own. She's not very experienced at gun handling so advice on teaching a newb would be appreciated.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:14 PM   #2
Kyo
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well, take her to the range at least so she knows how to handle it. teach her how to load/unload and all of the basics. just teach them to shoot.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:27 PM   #3
wyobohunter
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Quote:
well, take her to the range at least so she knows how to handle it. teach her how to load/unload and all of the basics. just teach them to shoot.
That's what I meant by "getting familiar with it in the back yard". I meant shooting.

I was looking for tips on teaching a new woman shooter some basic self defense handgunning.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:33 PM   #4
SouthCali
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being you are an experienced firearm shooter/owner (assumingly) its simple. teach her what you know. the basics. end of story.

load/unload, grip, preferred stance, laws, anticipation, keeping eyes open, only point at what you intend to kill, safe storage (the daughters), etc.
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Old May 30, 2010, 01:46 PM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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No - point the gun at someone if and only if you would be justified under the law to employ an instrument of lethal force. Also, your intent is to stop the incident, not to kill.

Implying that you intend to kill is not a good thing if the incident is ambiguous and/or goes awry.
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Old May 30, 2010, 02:41 PM   #6
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Hhmmm....Well, I'm wondering if the spouse who's gone 2wks at a time has made it home since the next door neighbor has been acting out? If so, why hasn't he obtained a proper firearm for his family?? I mean, is there some horribly long waiting period to purchase a firearm up there???[Also...just my personal curiosity, but what constitutes a proper HD firearm in your lights???? Do shotguns, rifles, and other guns than a revolver qualify?????]--Patrice

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Old May 30, 2010, 03:25 PM   #7
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Your wife, weapon & ride are three things that are not meant for the friend.
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Old May 30, 2010, 04:32 PM   #8
Glenn Dee
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I wouldnt loan a firearm. I'd gift it to him. (providing there is no reason he cant own a firearm)
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Old May 30, 2010, 04:34 PM   #9
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I believe the correct terminology is "Shoot to stop the attack".

The "shoot to kill" attitude, as well as the "shoot to wound" attitude could very well get you in legal trouble if you ever had to fire your weapon in self defense.

How you conduct yourself in a self defense shooting makes more differerence in court than anything else, both criminal and civil.

This is not meant to be a "talk down" or anything like that at all, just a WORD TO THE WISE, take it or leave it.
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Old May 30, 2010, 05:35 PM   #10
johnwilliamson062
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If you loan someone a car and they are in a n accident, you are liable in civil court as the owner of the vehicle. I assume the same would be true for a firearm. As previously indicated, "gift" it to him and he can "gift" it back when he is finished with it.
Or he can buy a hipoint and have his own.
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Old May 30, 2010, 06:42 PM   #11
wyobohunter
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Quote:
Hhmmm....Well, I'm wondering if the spouse who's gone 2wks at a time has made it home since the next door neighbor has been acting out? If so, why hasn't he obtained a proper firearm for his family??
Money my friend, plus she isn't sure exactly what she wants yet. I'm trying to stear them toward a youth length of pull 12 gauge. It'd work for crazy neighbors and bears (I've gone over to scare away a 3 legged brown bear once before).

Quote:
I mean, is there some horribly long waiting period to purchase a firearm up there???
No waiting period. We have about the most leniant gun laws in the country.

Quote:
[Also...just my personal curiosity, but what constitutes a proper HD firearm in your lights???? Do shotguns, rifles, and other guns than a revolver qualify?????]--Patrice
As I said, I think she'd be best off with a youth model 12 gauge. They have a 12 gauge but it doesn't fit her. He is long and lanky while she is small of stature. He bought his Super Nova thinking it'd be a great all around gun (including for her personal defense while he's gone) but he isn't really a "gun guy" so he didn't know about length of pull.

The only gun I own that would be simple enough for her to learn in a few hours of shooting and fit her and that I'd consider a man stopper (although inadequate for brown bear) is the SP101.
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Old May 30, 2010, 07:15 PM   #12
sakeneko
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Wyobohunter, I'd suggest talking to both your lawyer about the legalities of this situation, and the police about your concerns, before you decide what to do. In a case like this, my instinct would be to lend your neighbor a gun too. However, there are legal issues and possible pitfalls that you should at least be aware of before you do this. In addition, if she has concerns about her neighbor, she should cover herself by making sure that the police are aware of them, even if they aren't going to be within easy calling distance. That way, if something happens, they've got some background.

As to teaching her to shoot, assuming that she's asked for help, you just teach her the basics and make sure she gets enough practice to learn them.
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Old May 30, 2010, 07:24 PM   #13
wyobohunter
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Quote:
In addition, if she has concerns about her neighbor, she should cover herself by making sure that the police are aware of them, even if they aren't going to be within easy calling distance. That way, if something happens, they've got some background.
The police are aware. He just got outta jail for violating a restraining order another nieghbor has on him and nearly everybody in the area has called the troopers about him.

I'm heading over so... Hopefully she'll never need it but she'll have it and know the basics of how to use it. Thanks all.
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Old May 30, 2010, 07:30 PM   #14
sakeneko
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Good, Wyo. Good luck to her. :/ That sort of thing is the pits.
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Old May 30, 2010, 10:16 PM   #15
Ian0351
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I loaned my brother a gun once, he liked it so much he bought it for a $50 profit to me... nothing wrong with helping out a neighbor until they have the funds/time to purchase something. In the best case scenario, she may want to buy your Ruger (having become comfortable with it) and put you in gun-shop mode again!
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:20 PM   #16
bensdad
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I agree that loaning the gun may be problematic, as to legal reasons. There are lots of good values for used or new guns. I as many others may not know the complications of getting a gun around your parts of the country but either way, you can "sell" them your gun and have them make payments, until they find something, if they can't pay for it outright. Buy them a gun as a gift or loan money to them for this. I think my families safety wold come before any thing else if I had a neighbor that is that erratic of a person, especially outside of the city and no police.
I just bought a S@W 40 Sigma at Academy for $299, great gun, easy to shoot, great quality. I don't know if there is one near you guys up there but a great bargain.
They also have shotguns at a little over $100. Even a 20 ga will do fine on an intruder given the ammo. No I do not work for Academy and this is not a commercial.
A 12 to 20 gauge shotgun can be of great use out there and the 20 ga will be much easier to handle for her until such time as they are ready to get into HD/SD.
Instruction should be the same as for yourself, basic gun safety, shooting tips and the appropriate use of this in a SD situation. She may need to talk to a lawyer about the laws of SD/HD in Alaska.
Good luck with helping this family in need
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:28 PM   #17
Carne Frio
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If the husband is working on the slope, he
should be able to afford a lower priced,
self defense pistol or shotgun.
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:35 PM   #18
Glenn E. Meyer
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I would like to caution folks that promoting 'shoot to kill' is not appropriate.

Thank you.

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Old May 31, 2010, 02:21 PM   #19
billcarey
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I wouldn't

Loaning a firearm to anyone can put you in a long and expensive legal defense situation...or even put you in prison. At the least it can negatively impact you and your family forever. If the situation is that bad, your friend should be on top of making sure his family is protected. Help them learn how to buy and use a firearm...but don't loan one. You might consider a gift of pepper spray too. I hate to sound cold but loaning firearms is a bad idea in this country.
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Old May 31, 2010, 02:26 PM   #20
Lee Lapin
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advice on teaching a newb would be appreciated

See http://www.corneredcat.com/

lpl
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Old May 31, 2010, 09:01 PM   #21
sakeneko
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Quote:
Quote:
advice on teaching a newb would be appreciated
See http://www.corneredcat.com/
Speaking of which, where *is* Pax the last couple of months?
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Old May 31, 2010, 09:23 PM   #22
jrothWA
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From what I read, maybe instead of a 12ga.,...

especially if she isn't use to firearms.

Maybe consider an M1 Carbine, stock pouch to hold the mags ( have children, here), low recoil, good for HD and critters up to small deer.

Draw up a agreement for sale with payments, an forfieture if "missed" payments.
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Old May 31, 2010, 10:16 PM   #23
wyobohunter
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Quote:
From what I read, maybe instead of a 12ga.,...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

especially if she isn't use to firearms.

Maybe consider an M1 Carbine, stock pouch to hold the mags ( have children, here), low recoil, good for HD and critters up to small deer.
But inadequate for brown bears... even the 3 legged variety.

Quote:
If the husband is working on the slope, he
should be able to afford a lower priced,
self defense pistol or shotgun.
The husband is a contractor not a company guy so he ain't exactly rich but...He can afford a gun for her... he/they just aren't decided on what they should get for her.
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Old June 1, 2010, 11:53 AM   #24
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I never, ever, for any reason, loan a gun to someone that is not very familiar with guns in general, and that gun in particular.

Your buddy should have considered the security of his family long ago.
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Old June 1, 2010, 12:04 PM   #25
NavyLT
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Oh come on.... In Alaska there is one difference between loaning the gun and gifting the gun. The loan is with an expectation of getting the gun back and the gift is with no expectation of getting the gun back. The legal liabilities of either are the same.

If the gun was provided to the recipient, either as a gift or a loan, for the express purpose of murdering someone or committing a crime with it... if the intent of the transfer could be proven, then the person providing the firearm by any means, sale, gift or loan would be guilty of conspiracy.

If the intent of the loan or gift of the gun is for legal purposes, and the recipient is not prohibited from possessing the firearm, there is no difference in Alaska other than the expectation of getting the gun back. (and to receive the gift, the person must also be an Alaska resident, whereas there is no such requirement for the loan.) The paperwork required is all the same, the background checks are the same, the transaction is the same. The gun is handed to the recipient with a handshake and, "Here, have fun!" whether the gun is given as a gift or loaned. That's all that is required. What in heck could the difference between loan and gift make, if the intent of providing the gun is for lawful purposes (or if the intent of providing the gun could be proven to be for unlawful purposes!?)
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