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Old May 28, 2010, 05:26 PM   #1
Brit
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What you need in a carry pistol!

In my opinion.... Just me.

What can be required in the pistol, and your holster, and skill, that has happened already, somewhere.

That is a huge window right there! People have ran out of ammunition already!

Five rounds only, no extra rounds on person, that has to have happened some where? Or a malfunction in a semi-auto, panic clearance, and the magazine that was in gun, has now gone? somewhere? Not sure where, and no go-to magazine on your belt, or even in a pocket.

Some what if's are so very silly, but those two above? They are not so far fetched are they?

And cash is not unlimited is it? So cost has to be a major factor.

In my case, just me, Hi Cap Glock 19, go-to on belt, Glock 17 magazine,two extra rounds, no more room taken for them, 33 rounds, a lot? Yes, but to many? NO... "MORE IS BETTER, ALWAYS" you don't have to feed them, do you? Holster? Glock combat holster, from Glock $12? trimmed.

Cost up to now... G Lic; cost for Glock 19 at Gun Store in Florida, $400.00
G17 Mag; $ 20.00
Glock Combat holster $ 12.00

Can you conceal that amount of gear on your person, and get to it real quick? Again my answer, yes, for me. Five foot nine, 210lb 74 YOA.

More later (No zombies yet, Aye!)

Last edited by Brit; May 28, 2010 at 05:31 PM.
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Old May 28, 2010, 06:06 PM   #2
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I too am a great fan of the K.I.S.S. method.
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Old May 28, 2010, 09:50 PM   #3
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1. It goes 'bang' every time.

2. It must be controlable. That is powerful but not to where I cannot make fast second shots even weak handed.

3. It must be of decent power. .38/9mm +p is the floor. Anything below that is a backup gun, not the main carry.

4. It must be simple to opperate. At the most one safety to take off (but I prefer NO safety to disenguage.)

5. Must carry a decent supply of ammo. Six is the minimum, and 10-12 is mucho perferable. You cannot carry to much ammo, but you sure can carry to little.

6. It must be concealable. I mean really concealable for daily wear. If I cannot conceal it under practicle attire, I won't carry it.

7. It must be light enough to wear 8-10 hours a day. If it weighs a ton I won't carry it.

My Glock 26/27 fills that bill. So does my Smith Centennial (but because it only holds 5 rounds I mucho prefer a backup gun with it for the 'reload'.)

I find heavy BIG guns just don't cut it for daily wear. Plenty of sub-compacts on the market so no need to try to stuff a full sized 1911 or Glock 17 in your pants eight hours a day.

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Old May 29, 2010, 10:56 AM   #4
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What you need in a carry pistol! Mod's.

What you need in a carry pistol! Reference modifications.

In starting the whole big controversy in the 80s, having many arguments with fellow LE Firearms Instructors, the shoot to kill one (now let me clear this up, I was never a Police Officer, but was an LE Firearms Instructor) we taught LEO's.

I was a board member of IALEFI (The International Assoc; of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors) from 1986 till 2006, 20 years. A member from 82.

There was 800+ members in 82 over 8000 in 2006. I successfully completed a 40 hr. SWAT program in Tennessee in 2003, plus the Tennessee National Guard assault in an armored vehicle program, I was 68 years of age then.
So I feel I can speak with a wee bit of knowledge here. (BIG HEAD! I heard that)

So here we go, modifications for Gun Fighters! And again, just with my carry pistol, my EDC Glock 19.

In my last IDPA match, we had a head shot at 20yd. I took both, but the second one was a mistake! It should have been two rounds in the full target!

But never the less, two shots, two head shots, the reason (well I can shoot!) a great set of fiber optic sights, TruGlow in green.

And right out of the box, crisp trigger, standard? Five pounds? never measured it, feels so. Do you need this kind of accuracy? I think I do.

This RTF Glock 19 does not slip! Had to file it down a bunch! It was sharp.

The Glock factory slide release (Slide Lock Lever according to Glock) a must, just look how much hand and arm movement with the sling shot, time-time-time, you can not waste time, ever.

The wee base plug, Pearse plug? gives you an extra over 1/2" to strike with the rear of the magazine whilst reloading, makes for a slick change, if required, you will need it quick!

And now skill, what do you practice on the range? draw and dry fire, draw and fire, one in the head, at 6' ft, two or three targets, two in each, burst fire, at one, bang/bang/bang/bang and a couple more? why not you have 16 rounds of 9mm 127g WW Ranger T (I do anyhow!) with 17 more on the off side. Now do it moving, all bad guys move, we should too!

Mind you, over a lot of store camera videos of robbery's where the BG,s are fired on by the Non-Victim gun packer behind the counter, they react to that big bang, in a very positive way, exit stage rear? normally.

Last edited by Brit; June 1, 2010 at 07:22 AM.
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Old May 29, 2010, 11:53 AM   #5
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My choice for my daily carry/HD weapon is my Rossi 462. Although I own several auto-loaders, I prefer the simplicity of a revolver for a daily carry weapon. Barring any catostropic mechanical failure, when you pull the trigger on a revolver, it will go "bang". Plus, you can leave a revolver loaded indefintely without concerns of the magazine spring taking a "set". Added to the fact that you never have to worry about power with a .357, and I always carry two reloads, so fire power is not an issue. Just my opinion.
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Old May 29, 2010, 02:40 PM   #6
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"What I need" in a retirement CCW handgun carried for defensive purpose is pretty simple for me ...

It has to allow for being comfortably and easily carried when I'm engaged in my assorted daily activities. Yes, I know the adage about how a defensive pistol is meant to be comforting and not comfortable, but I spent a career in LE carrying weapons both in uniform and plainclothes, as well as off-duty, and I have some experience in determining whether or not I feel it necessary or appropriate to carry a full-size service weapon. Also, many of the more modern platforms are coming in acceptably smaller and lighter configurations which function well and serve the needs of many users almost as well, if not as well, as larger models. Pick what you like ... I do.

I also have a 'threshold' minimum caliber preference ... and it's also .38 S&W Special or 9mm. I have a fair number of guns chambered in more powerful calibers, but those are my personal 'minimum' calibers.

I have and use both revolvers and semiauto pistols. I train & practice with both. My selections in semiauto pistols includes some different designs with which I've gained a fair amount of familiarity & practice. Some folks may prefer a much more limited selection, or restrict themselves to just one design. That's fine. They should choose for themselves. I do.

I require that my defensive handguns be reliable, accurate & durable under reasonably common conditions with normal maintenance practices.

I prefer guns made by major makers of handguns who have gained experience having provided weapons to LE/Gov users, and who have proven themselves willing to strongly support their customers in the way of fast & easy warranty service and/or armorer training and parts support.

I don't get too wrapped up around the axle debating make/model/caliber from a user preference or simple personal opinions. There are a number of good quality makes/models out there being made by the major companies who have earned respect and trust over the years.

As a LE firearms instructor of a couple of decades experience I'm familiar with the discussions and thoughts regarding many of the advantages and disadvantages of ammunition capacity and reloading.

That being said, I don't lose any sleep over carrying handguns with capacities of either 5 rounds in revolvers or pistols which have mag capacities of 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 rounds. Over the course of my career I started out carrying 6-shot revolvers, and then once we changed over to pistols I carried issued 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP guns which at one time or another had mag capacities of 14, 15, 12, 9, 8 & 7 rounds, in just about that order. I finished my career carrying an issued .45 which used 7-rd mags. Capacity just hasn't been all that much of a critical issue for me.

Skillsets developed from training & practice have always been more critical considerations for me than the actual weapon/equipment ... right behind mindset, awareness, knowledge/tactics & mental/physical preparation.

It's just a handgun.
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Old May 29, 2010, 10:44 PM   #7
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What you need in a carry Pistol??

I carry a G19 with FO sights and two spare mags in a CCW holster that holds a TLR-1 light on the gun. That is 46 rounds with 1 in the Pipe. I have a second G19 that I am working on that has a Red Dot sight in a low profile fit to the slide unit on the rear. You look thru this sight and get a red dot on the target, put it where you want it and fire. This is way better than a Laser that the target can see where it comes from and is pointed to. Faster on target and more confidence. Yes this costs money. How much money does it cost if you miss the BG and hit an innocent bystander?? How large is your Personal Safety Umbrella?? Mine is well into 7 digits of insurance. Mine also carries a Loser Pays requirement if I go to court. No BS issues on Killing BG's.
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Old May 30, 2010, 12:44 AM   #8
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for me it's..

reliability, {it's not tweak, twatted etc., it from the box straight[
familiarity, minimum 100 round per month thru it on range, no bench, etc, and when new to home, it get DETAILED, no surprises with bad parts or rough edges, good lube on interior parts, white lithium or Teflon grease, LIGHTLY applied.

OTC ammo used no exotic unobtainable stuff.

five round minimum with two reloads

reloads duplicate carry ammo

rather practice, than try and buy hits

practice all ranges, nice to know where /how to hold for impacting SR-1 target @100 yds.
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Old May 30, 2010, 03:08 AM   #9
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Fastbolt

[QUOTESkillsets developed from training & practice have always been more critical considerations for me than the actual weapon/equipment ... right behind mindset, awareness, knowledge/tactics & mental/physical preparation.
[/QUOTE]

I agree entirely, but remember, as an LEO you were issued various firearms, and what was in your holster did just fine. In my case I get to pick, and staying with the exact same pistol, for quite a few years, it has become like an extension of my arm.

Steviewonder1

[QUOTE]Red Dot sight in a low profile fit to the slide unit on the rear. You look thru this sight and get a red dot on the target, put it where you want it and fire./QUOTE]

I think this is the way of the future, I just purchased a rifle sight for my Daughters 10/22 Ruger, less than $60.00, green or red dot, very simple, and no back and front bits to line up.
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Old May 30, 2010, 03:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
I agree entirely, but remember, as an LEO you were issued various firearms, and what was in your holster did just fine. In my case I get to pick, and staying with the exact same pistol, for quite a few years, it has become like an extension of my arm.
FWIW, I'm not disagreeing with you.

As another instructor of some small experience I've also found some handgun designs and platforms to seem more desirable in some respects than some others, and I have some preferences myself.

As far as any particular handgun feeling like an extension of my arm? Sure. However, this is my 39th year of having pursued an interest and involvement in the martial arts, and that's influenced me to feel that all of the various handguns I've owned, or have been issued, have felt like extensions of myself.

Granted, I could point to some of them as having some inherent qualities I like when it comes to weight distribution, ergonomics and qualities which otherwise lend themselves to having a 'lively' balance. I never question the preference of someone else when it comes to weapon selection, as long as they're able to demonstrate consistently good skills and performance with whatever it is they've selected. As long as their confidence in their skills with whatever they've chosen isn't a matter of false confidence, I'm more interested in their skills, knowledge and mindset.

When I get to pick I'm certainly not adverse to shading things in my favor as much as possible by choosing a handgun which offers me a little bit more in one sense or another. I just don't have a single design or platform which is the ultimate distillation of everything I prefer in a handgun in all situations and possible conditions. A good revolver or 1911 comes close, though.
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Old May 30, 2010, 05:59 AM   #11
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perhaps the most important single criteria for your CCW weapon is to have it with you.
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Old June 1, 2010, 01:36 PM   #12
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What I need in a carry pistol:

1. Reliability (tuning it to be reliable is fine with me)
2. Durability - don't tell me "it's not a range gun" - I better be able fire 10 magazines as fast as I can without it breaking.
3. Compact enough for pocket carry. If it doesn't fit in pocket, it ain't coming with me.
4. Comes in Calibers 9mm, .38 special, .40S&W or .45 - all are sufficient, I don't really care which caliber.


Here's what I don't care much about: trigger feel/pull (I'm strong enough to pull the trigger on any da revolver or dao semi-auto), sights, cost, weight (within reason), high capacity, name brand, warranty, add-on doo-dads like lasers, lights etc.

Two guns I like for concealed carry - AMT 45 Backup; Detonics pocket 9mm (I don't have this one, but would like to).
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Old June 14, 2010, 05:31 AM   #13
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The mindset of the posters is as varied as the selected pistols! And no snide comments! Terrific.

In winning a pistol at the last Glock match at our club (love random selection when I get to be the winner!) I opted for the Gen4Glock 19, they are still not released yet. Will give it an evaluation on the range, the new double main spring kind of intrigues me, it has been a controversial subject in the case of the Gen4Glock17, a bit of a balancing act between carry +P+ and the lighter recoiling target ammo; from Wally World.

If it comes as a selection of a bit more kick, as apposed to working every time, I know what I would pick! Will comment when I am in possession.
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Old June 14, 2010, 02:50 PM   #14
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The mindset of the posters is as varied as the selected pistols! And no snide comments! Terrific.
Something always hoped for, but not nearly so often achieved. (as had been evidenced by your similar thread topic in another forum).

When you consider the potential for variable backgrounds, knowledge & experience among the folks who frequent internet firearms, including the range of folks who may be new to lawfully carrying handguns as defensive weapons (both professionally & "non-personally"), it's not surprising that some folks have some different ideas.

Personally, looking at just the basic features offered by the venerable medium-framed, iron-sighted .38 S&W Special revolver, we're actually quite well served by some of the new pistols being offered for service/defensive use nowadays. It's not a bad thing to be have become somewhat spoiled in this respect.
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Old June 15, 2010, 01:56 PM   #15
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Are you picking on me fast-bolt? And I am so laid back. Just a recent wee American to be. What do we say? divided by a common language!
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Old June 15, 2010, 02:10 PM   #16
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Are you picking on me fast-bolt?
Not at all.

Just reflecting on the obvious inherent accuracy of your comment regarding the diversity of mindset.

It's not uncommon to find that as a general group we're possessed of some divergent opinions and preferences. However, it's nice when we can accept those differences and see past them to understand where common ground exists.

As far as being divided by a common language? (A quick wit who originally coined the phrase. )

It is necessary for some definition of terms to be understood when communicating. What one person considers 'necessary in a carry pistol' may differ from that of another. Looking at it from the differing perspectives of outfitting an individual, or outfitting a broad spectrum of individuals being comprised into a group, can have an influence on it, as well.

Skills & experiences will have the predictable influence on the thoughts of folks, too.

It's just nice to see this thread topic being discussed in a gentlemanly fashion.
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Old June 15, 2010, 03:02 PM   #17
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Oooops, I've already answered this - deleted

Last edited by Skans; June 15, 2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old June 15, 2010, 07:07 PM   #18
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Cheers Fast-bolt,

So much of where we come from, where we went to School, and where and when this happened (Born in..... Big difference being born in 1935, and your birth year being in the 1980s.

I must say, where we live now, I have never lived in a place, any where in the World, where the people are nicer.

The day after I received my Green Card (not green) no longer referred to that way, Lawful Permanent Resident, is what we are now.

Any how, jumped out of my Jeep, whistling (an irritating English Habit) the Lady getting out of her car next to me said "My we are happy" I said I am now a Lawful Permanent Resident of the US of A as of yesterday! She stuck her hand out and said "Welcome to America" I was all choked up.

A Scouse carrying a fully loaded Glock 19, who would have thunk-ed it!
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Old June 15, 2010, 08:04 PM   #19
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That the pistol be carryable...not left at home or in the vehicle. Then reliable and of a proper caliber .
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Old June 15, 2010, 08:34 PM   #20
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What I need in my carry pistol is ammo, plain and simple.
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Old June 15, 2010, 10:34 PM   #21
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Five rounds not enough ? Hmmmm I only carry a handgun to deploy it if, and only if, a lethal threat against me manifests. I am not out to free hostages, stop crime, or criminals, confront heathens, or engave in a protrated gunfight. I carry a speed strip, but seriously doubt I could effectively use it. 33 rounds ? II certainly hope I am not in the neighborhood if you ever decide to begin unloading those rounds. Fear is a factor in our daily lives I suppose, but 33 rounds ?

I decided I would rather have a pocket revolver than 33 rounds to shoot through a larger, heavier handgun, which is harder to conceal and carry. I feel more comfortable having a loaded revolver in my pocket that I can put my hand in my pocket and grip under creepy situations. Just my personal fear reducing scenario.
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Old June 16, 2010, 03:20 PM   #22
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Congratulations on becoming a Lawful Permanent Resident Brit.

I may have mistaken your reference to dates of birth when it came to the differences of some generational thinking, though. My youngest child was born in 1980. I'm a bit more worn than that ...
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Old June 16, 2010, 03:47 PM   #23
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this is, in my opinion, one of the better threads i have seen in awhile. it is refreshing to see/hear/read as many differing ideas of "what works" as there are total responses.

i don't own a 1911, but do enjoy shooting my buddy's...but boy-o-boy do i ever get tired of that being the ONLY gun in so many people's minds. obviously, there are alot of guns that meet the varying needs of the law-abiding community

personally, i prefer semi-autos...in the 9mm or 40s&w flavor...with 10-15 rounds on tap. the most important need is reliability, but i would rank familiarity right behind that. there's no point in me getting a bunch of guns with different safety/lock mechanisms if i clam up with the stuff hits the fan because i forget how to "work" my gun
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Old June 16, 2010, 04:06 PM   #24
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Fastbolt,

When I say "My Daughter" people then say "How old is your little girl" When I state 50 YOA! They nearly fall over, apparently I don't look 74.

Quite a few on these different gun blogs think a gun is the answer for just about every use of force, the mere moving your hand from were it is, to a concealed pistol, and back can quite often be toooo slow.

But going forward, with hands on, is in most cases quick enough. The trouble is, to get that skill, to get to be a scrapper? Can quite often put you on the wrong side of the law in your youth. Fighting with the Police was not such a bad thing in my youth, but I must say the Cops mostly won! Big Irishmen were not soft!

You know what you called a person you met in Liverpool with a straight nose? A visitor.
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Old June 16, 2010, 04:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Quite a few on these different gun blogs think a gun is the answer for just about every use of force ...
Quite right. An unfortunately common misconception.
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