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Old May 22, 2010, 10:26 PM   #1
chexmix
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Guns and drinking, help me settle a bet.

We all know (or should) that drinking and guns don't mix. Me and a buddy just got in an argument about carrying a gun while drunk on your own property. We both know its wrong, but he says its illegal. I believe its not illegal because its your own property. I tried searching the internet but its not working that well.
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Old May 22, 2010, 10:47 PM   #2
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It's going to depend on your local laws. Here in Texas you can drink (which I don't and don't recommend) as long as you're not in a place that's 51% or 30-06 posted and you're not past the legal limit (I think it's .08 but not sure). But think about if you've even had one drink and had to use that carry gun, that DA's gonna come down hard on you for drinking and carrying.
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Old May 22, 2010, 11:04 PM   #3
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Here in Kentucky, if you live outside city limits and there are no posted COUNTY ordinances, you can be as drunk as a skunk .... on your own property ... and firing you firearms as often as you like.

NOW ... there are stipulations. You cannot endanger anyone else's life in the process of any of this, so I would say it's not a really good idea ... if you know what I mean. Technically .... you could get the sheriff called on you, and end up in jail for reckless endangerment involving a firearm if the Deputy sees you are too drunk to hold your aim, and the discharge of a firearm endangered others. In other words ... if he thought you fired at a neighbors house ... you'd be in trouble.

So ... are there any laws ... it depends on your state / county of residence.

Is it a good idea even if it's legal? Absolutely not!
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Old May 22, 2010, 11:32 PM   #4
Eagleks
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Here : it is NOT legal. The law here specifically states that "if" home and use a gun in self-defense and the person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and that it is a legitimate self-defense shooting........ and ONLY if the gun was in there hands NO LONGER THAN NECESSARY to defend themselves , then it would be legal.

However, if they were carrying it around beforehand, or afterwards..... they would be guilty of a crime.

It's a crime here whether you are home or not, to be "under the influence" and in possession or control of any loaded firearm.
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Old May 23, 2010, 02:32 AM   #5
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It will look really great in court when it's shown that you were drunk !
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Old May 23, 2010, 02:42 AM   #6
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This is about STATE law - not Federal.
The definition is going to change depending on where you live.
Here in South Carolina, I can get drunk, start a bonfire, shoot my pistolas in the air, and no one can say a gorramm thing.
Well, they can, but I'm within my rights to do all three.
Provided it isn't Sunday...
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Old May 23, 2010, 05:56 AM   #7
gyvel
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Quote:
Here in South Carolina, I can get drunk, start a bonfire, shoot my pistolas in the air, and no one can say a gorramm thing.
Doesn't SC have a law similar to Arizona's Megan's Law, i.e. no shooting into the air?
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Old May 23, 2010, 06:00 AM   #8
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It's legal here in PA to be anywhere and drinking. Well, anywhere it's legal to have a gun.
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Old May 24, 2010, 12:23 AM   #9
WoofersInc
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Here is the Nevada statute concerning this subject. You can drink and carry in public as long as you are under .10 blood alcohol level. The statute has a provision in it that exempts you from the .10 requirements if you are in your home and use the gun in self defense.

Quote:
NRS 202.257 Possession of firearm when under influence of alcohol, controlled substance or other intoxicating substance; administration of evidentiary test; penalty; forfeiture of firearm.

1. It is unlawful for a person who:

(a) Has a concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath; or

(b) Is under the influence of any controlled substance, or is under the combined influence of intoxicating liquor and a controlled substance, or any person who inhales, ingests, applies or otherwise uses any chemical, poison or organic solvent, or any compound or combination of any of these, to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm,
to have in his or her actual physical possession any firearm. This prohibition does not apply to the actual physical possession of a firearm by a person who was within the person’s personal residence and had the firearm in his or her possession solely for self-defense.
2. Any evidentiary test to determine whether a person has violated the provisions of subsection 1 must be administered in the same manner as an evidentiary test that is administered pursuant to NRS 484C.160 to 484C.250, inclusive, except that submission to the evidentiary test is required of any person who is directed by a police officer to submit to the test. If a person to be tested fails to submit to a required test as directed by a police officer, the officer may direct that reasonable force be used to the extent necessary to obtain the samples of blood from the person to be tested, if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be tested was in violation of this section.

3. Any person who violates the provisions of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

4. A firearm is subject to forfeiture pursuant to NRS 179.1156 to 179.119, inclusive, only if, during the violation of subsection 1, the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.

5. As used in this section, the phrase “concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath” means 0.10 gram or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of the blood of a person or per 210 liters of his or her breath.

(Added to NRS by 1995, 2533; A 1999, 2470; 2003, 2565)
So, the arguement can be made about the wording of "solely for self defense" if you are on your own property and just carrying. However since you can be up to .10 here in Nevada, there is a big grey area to it.

I'm not going to get into the moral issues of guns and drinking for this thread since it has been covered in other threads.
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Old May 24, 2010, 01:15 AM   #10
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Generally, it's not lawful to be intoxicated and in possession of a firearm. "Possession" has some complicated specifications. Generally you can own one, but having it on your person is going to raise issues about "possession."
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Old May 24, 2010, 11:59 PM   #11
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I would think if you are outside of your house and can be seen by persons travelling on the public roads, you are in public, and brandishing a firearm, unless you can convince the sheriff you are just moving it between storage places.
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Old May 26, 2010, 02:12 PM   #12
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In this case, legal is less important than stupid. Carrying, shooting, or handling a gun while drinking is about as stupid a behavior as I can imagine. And, never forget that "Stupid games have stupid prizes." Also, remember the "Three Stupids Rule." "Don't hang out with stupid people who go to stupid places and do stupid things."
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Old May 26, 2010, 05:15 PM   #13
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Dustybottoms, just so you know in South Corolina it is illeagal to use a firearm while under the influence. "use" means to discharge. you can cary it while drunk all you want but dont discharge it except in self defence, which is leagal.
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:10 PM   #14
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No shooting in the air?? This has to be the brain chlid of liberals. It has been tested,, has it not and proven that bullets are harmless coming down? Or is there a danger?
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:18 PM   #15
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It is not safe to shoot into the air. What's wrong with shooting into the ground?
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:18 PM   #16
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It was tested and proven that bullets fired straight up into the air will reach their point, and turn around and fall down at terminal velocity, which would merely if even break your skin if struck. The PROBLEM is, people who shoot guns in the air might not exactly shoot them straight up, and say if they shot it at an angle.... well chances are the bullet wouldn't expand its energy and turn around and fall, it would continue on in an ark and may harm someone or something. I am not physicist, but that has been my general understanding.

Plus ammo ain't cheap these days so I'd rather not shoot it off in the air....
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:38 PM   #17
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No shooting in the air?? This has to be the brain chlid of liberals. It has been tested,, has it not and proven that bullets are harmless coming down? Or is there a danger?
There is a danger.

Straight up case.
Pistol bullets are unlikely to cause injury because they don't remain stabilized and so they tumble on the way back down. That reduces terminal velocity sufficiently that they're unlikely to do much injury.

Rifle bullets may remain stabilized. If they don't they'll tumble and terminal velocity will be slow, as above. If they do remain stabilized they can fall back base first. That makes them considerably more aerodynamic and so they fall faster--higher terminal velocity. They are still going relatively slow--between 300fps and 400fps--but under the right (wrong?) circumstances they could be lethal. They will certainly break the skin and some sources indicate that they have the potential to breach the skull at that velocity.

Not quite straight up case.
LETHAL. No question about it. Pistol or rifle. Add even a small amount of horizontal velocity into the equation and it's an entirely different story. Bullets will come down with enough velocity to kill.

If you want to shoot into the air use a shotgun with birdshot or use blanks.
Quote:
Here in Texas you can drink (which I don't and don't recommend) as long as you're not in a place that's 51% or 30-06 posted and you're not past the legal limit (I think it's .08 but not sure).
To my knowledge, there is no limit established for legal blood alcohol level while carrying or using a gun in TX. That means if something goes wrong even a tiny BAC might become an issue.
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Old May 27, 2010, 07:39 AM   #18
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State local laws, carrying loaded guns on your own property..

I'm not a lawyer but to my limited legal knowledge, you can have loaded firearms in your own home or property BUT you may be subject to a formal criminal charge if you fire/discharge the weapon.
As posted before, state & local laws may be different, but Im 99.9% sure my state has laws about possession/firing a firearm while intoxicated.

Any person would be hard pressed to justify or explain why they had to fire a gun while drinking. If states or local juristdictions do not have strict laws about it, then they should.
Gun owners & 2A/RTKA supporters have a hard time fighting off the anti-gun/gun control crowd. Drug use(meds or illegal) and/or drinking are not good ways to keep CCWs or firearms(legally).
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Old May 27, 2010, 04:25 PM   #19
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeFrog
Any person would be hard pressed to justify or explain why they had to fire a gun while drinking. If states or local juristdictions do not have strict laws about it, then they should.
If armed thugs kick someone's door in and invade their home, it shouldn't make a bit of difference whether the homeowner had a couple of drinks in him when he resolved the situation. I don't see where he would be "hard-pressed" to justify his actions. If it's legal to shoot the home-invaders in his jurisdiction, then BAC shouldn't enter into the picture.

The states that allow drinking while carrying don't seem to have a problem with the issue. Can you cite any factual evidence that drinking while carrying (up to the legal limit) has actually resulted in a greater danger to citizens of that state due to negligence, etc., on the part of the drinker?
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Old May 28, 2010, 12:16 AM   #20
WoofersInc
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Quote:
The states that allow drinking while carrying don't seem to have a problem with the issue. Can you cite any factual evidence that drinking while carrying (up to the legal limit) has actually resulted in a greater danger to citizens of that state due to negligence, etc., on the part of the drinker?

This is true. I can say that Vegas has a huge share of really dumb, drunken antics. However I can't recall a incident involving someone carrying. And for reference I used to work at the Clark County Detention Center in booking, so I saw the whole spectrum of charges.

Quote:
Any person would be hard pressed to justify or explain why they had to fire a gun while drinking. If states or local juristdictions do not have strict laws about it, then they should.
I'm going to have to disagree with this. If I have a beer or two while at home, I fail to see why this should terminate my right to defend myself if someone is trying to do harm to me or my wife.
Nevada is very clear in saying that while at home, if a gun is used in self defense, that the restrictions on alcohol do not apply.
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Old May 28, 2010, 12:47 AM   #21
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Legal or not... Firearms and alcohol do not mix...
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Old May 28, 2010, 07:15 AM   #22
RDak
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It's illegal in Michigan if you are over .08 BAL.

For concealed carry outside the home it is .02 BAL and open carry outside the home is the same as on your property (.08 BAL).

Why the difference? Unknown?
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Old May 28, 2010, 08:13 AM   #23
ClydeFrog
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2A-protection vs drinking re; real legal issues, emotions...

For the TFL members who disagree or take issue with my remarks, I say this;
If you are drinking alcoholic beverages or are on strong medications you MAY have the need or be required to use a loaded firearm to protect yourself & family members/spouses.
My point is that your BAC or other medical issues may come into a formal criminal investigation or court action. In all honesty, these things may be hard to address but I'm not saying you shouldn't use lethal force to protect your family.
Some members get more worked up over parts of a post rather than the member post as a whole. As I have told others in the past; "emotions cloud judgement". Yes it would be important to use a firearm to protect your kids or spouse, no one is questioning that, it's being able to think clearly and make rational level headed judgements while impaired that is the point.

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Old May 28, 2010, 10:02 PM   #24
chexmix
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We called the bet a draw, too many unspecified rules of the bet. We both agree that gun and booze don't mix. The bet was all about carrying on your house/property and the legality, not that either one of us do it. Thank you for all the helpful responses.



Mods you can close if you wish or keep the discussion going.
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Old May 30, 2010, 11:37 AM   #25
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Regarding Texas and the level of Blood Alcohol Concentration that is legal in public, the arbitrary .08 level is applicable only when driving.

Any other statute involving "intoxication" has three separate criteria that must be met. You must, to be "intoxicated", meet the following:

1) Outside your domicile,

2) Under the influence of an intoxicating substance (dope or booze), and

3) Presenting a danger to yourself or others, BECAUSE OF the influence of the intoxicant.

It's legal to carry a loaded pistol in your front yard in Texas, provided you have not pointed it at anyone...even if you have a beer in your hand. However, if a cop deems that you are presenting a danger to yourself or others, he must not demonstrate that you are at a specific level of B.A.C. to arrest you. He must simply demonstrate that you had consumed an intoxicant, and claim that you were under its influence...and the burden of proof falls upon the defendant to prove that he was not a danger to himself or others. This is impossible to do, which kinda legally forces people to not act like idiots with beer and guns; otherwise they risk arrest.
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