The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 1, 2010, 10:59 PM   #1
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,341
Illinois Set to Increase Penalty for no FOID

Illinois is poised to enact a law imposing harsher penalties for possession of a firearm with a firearms owners' identification card (FOID). It will increase the penalty to one year in prison and needs only the governor's signature. http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/201...html?=features

Stiffer penalties will undoubtedly dissuade more law abiding citizens from taking steps to protect themselves, but how can anyone think it's going to do anything to stem drug and gang violence? Assuming the 2A is incorporated in McDonald, what do you think the future of FOID cards are? I mean, do you have to get a permit to exercise a fundamental right?
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Old May 2, 2010, 01:12 PM   #2
mack59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2004
Posts: 409
If this becomes law - and it looks like a done deal - then if McDonald incorporates the RKBA - then I think the FOID is cooked - I hope the ISRA takes it to court immediately. Personally I think the FOID is unconstitutional -just like licensing the right to speak in your own home would be. However, I also believe that the courts would lean towards allowing such a thing if the state made a claim of compelling state safety for the good of the citizens, so long as obtaining a FOID card was a simple straight forward and inexpensive matter. (now we may know that is garbage, but courts are inclined in my opinion to let stand laws so long as they don't feel they are too egregious). But with tying severe felonies to the failure to have the license, I think that the courts will be more likely to overturn the FOID. The courts probably would have overturned FOID anyway since there are already some felonies that relate to having or not having one.

I can see most shall issue CCW licenses passing judicial muster, as they will argue that they are easy to obtain, non-discriminatory, and not unduly burdensome, and they serve a compelling public safety concern of the state as they involve carrying a loaded firearm in public, (AK, NH, and now AZ put the lie to that rational) but I feel the courts will let it slide. However FOID is not a CCW license - it merely deals with being able to even keep a firearm in the home or personally possess one - so again I think it will fail in the courts.

Just my guess, but once the right to bear or carry arms becomes established as part of the RKBA via McDonald and subsequent pending cases on the carrying of arms, and the state of Illinois figures out that they have to allow either shall issue CCW or open carry - then the FOID will be turned into a CCW license.

But short answer - with the current supreme court - the FOID will fail.
mack59 is offline  
Old May 2, 2010, 08:36 PM   #3
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
..how can anyone think it's going to do anything to stem drug and gang violence?
The purpose of such "laws" is to make it more difficult, expensive, and time-consuming for commoners to exercise the right to keep and bear arms. Elected misrepresentatives talk about safety, but all they actually have in mind is further stacking the deck against us commoners.
__________________
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.
Standing Wolf is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 01:00 PM   #4
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,047
Quote:
..how can anyone think it's going to do anything to stem drug and gang violence?
No one actually thinks that. They know exactly who this primarily affects, and that's what is so egregious about it.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 02:49 PM   #5
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
No, they're stiffer penalties for people owning guns without being a FOID holder. I don't know why it has anything to do with people "carrying loaded weapons" as it's illegal to carry a loaded weapon already. It's a little odd to me...
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 03:58 PM   #6
mack59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2004
Posts: 409
Glad I didn't vote for the guy that introduced the legislation, he was running for governor and had the endorsement of the state NRA affiliate. Granted it isn't near as bad as the bills Daley's people have been trying to pass - but I have no idea what they are thinking - guess they just want to be seen to be "doing something" and maybe it was a attempt to blunt Daley's drumbeat of not enough being done to get rid of the guns - as political cover for a certain parties members in the Chicago area.

Still, what are they thinking with the McDonald decision coming up - do they not see the potential issues with FOID?
mack59 is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 08:23 PM   #7
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
I don't understand why people feel that the FOID cards and other like systems are unconstitutional. But, it also brings up the issue of "where the line is." So, if the FOID card is found unconstitutional or claimed to be, wouldn't any semblance of carry permits be found unconstitutional, as well. And then background checks? And then waiting periods? And the NFA? Where does it end. I personally feel that the FOID card system is a good system and that it's not unconstitutional. I feel that Illinois legislators often pass laws that make no sense. So, they can crack down more on people who carry a loaded gun without a FOID card, when even people with FOID cards can't carry a gun (loaded or otherwise) legally unless it's in a case. Maybe it's a sign that Illinois may be getting a carry permit soon, as they're legislating something that's already illegal, maybe they're preparing for looser legislature in the future.
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 09:52 PM   #8
KLRANGL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 958
Quote:
I don't understand why people feel that the FOID cards and other like systems are unconstitutional
Would you feel the same why if we required you to get a license to speak in public because you you might yell fire in a crowded theater (which is already illegal if I recall)?

Quote:
I personally feel that the FOID card system is a good system
I'm certainly not bashing your point of view, but I am curious as to why you believe that?

Quote:
Maybe it's a sign that Illinois may be getting a carry permit soon, as they're legislating something that's already illegal, maybe they're preparing for looser legislature in the future.
I'm not sure I understand how that works?
__________________
And it's Killer Angel... as in the book
KLRANGL is offline  
Old May 6, 2010, 02:48 PM   #9
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,272
Thomme, people generally don't like to have to ask permission to exercise fundamental rights.

Let me put it this way. For "Average Joe," it is ILLEGAL for him to own ANY firearm. The only way he can legally own a firearm in Illinois (as a resident) is to fill out forms and pay money to ASK the government for permission to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights.

If you need to ask permission, is it really a right?
raimius is offline  
Old May 6, 2010, 10:04 PM   #10
vytoland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 613
if this becomes law...............the gangsta's in chicago will need to generate more drug sales revenue to pay the fines
vytoland is offline  
Old May 7, 2010, 01:10 PM   #11
Crosshair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,320
Quote:
No one actually thinks that. They know exactly who this primarily affects, and that's what is so egregious about it.
Exactly, the point of these laws was always to disarm blacks. That was the original and continuing purpose of gun control today.
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.
Crosshair is offline  
Old May 22, 2010, 04:57 PM   #12
Goidel
Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2009
Location: Crook Cty Illinois
Posts: 26
KYJim

I read the proposed law as--

...."Specifically, the new bill would change the current state law from the lesser sentence of probation and mandate at least one year in prison for a person convicted of unlawful use of a weapon by carrying a loaded gun WITHOUT a firearm owner's identification card."..

2nd Amendments issues aside, this proposal will not effect those who have a FOID and the weapon is locked, unloaded and not in the cabin of the vehicle.
Goidel is offline  
Old May 23, 2010, 12:35 PM   #13
NukemJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2002
Posts: 279
Short version.

Springfield passess law, Cook County refuses to punish people with it. Springfield passes new law saying "this time we really, really mean it."

Since a recent suspect in a LEOs death during on off-duty bikejacking (is that a word?) was given 18 months probation after the same charge a while back this law might get enforced, for a while.

As far as getting rid of the FOID business after McDonald wins in June, I would ask you to remember that Mr. Heller (of Helller Vs DC fame) is still required by law to keep his gun unloaded and dissasembled or have a trigger lock on it. So I would not recomend holding your breath for the FOID law to go away. There are other states that also have similar systems and even in Heller the court stated that requlations and controlls were both constitutional and allowed.

Best wishes

NukemJim
__________________
"Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb at"

"Guns shoot bullets.
People shoot people."
NukemJim is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09493 seconds with 9 queries