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Old May 21, 2010, 12:51 PM   #1
RemTim
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Loading technique critique requested

I found this article a while back Preventing Chain Fires and followed the advice given and chamfered my cylinders. The .454 has less lead shaved off of it than before. The shaved ring is not uniform. I am not sure, since used a cotton swab to seal it up which crisco, (after wiping the cylinder wall with a different swab to remove any powder) so I can't be certain but I believe the shaved ring was thicker near the outer edge of the cylinder and the center. I was considering trying a .457 ball since the chambers now accommodate a larger ball than before. Should I go back to a .451 ball? I am seeking a perfect seal in order to have a rounder ball in order to increase accuracy. I do not want to sacrifice safety in order to achieve more accuracy. I wipe crisco on the edge of the chamber as the article suggests. I do not use wads or fill in the chamber in front of the ball. It seem logical that the lube should be behind the ball as any in front will be pushed out.
What do you guys think about this technique?
This guy suggests putting 10 grains of corn meal between the powder and ball to reduce fouling. I haven't bothered to do that as I usually don't shoot more than one cylinder at a time. I would brush and lube the bore in between cylinders.
I know much of you use wonder wads and the like, but if I can achieve the same results without them, I will take the cheaper route. I have never used the wads before.
This technique works pretty well for me, but I would appreciate your imput on this technique.
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:59 PM   #2
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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As a Bullseye target shooter only, Me and my buddys use "Creme-of-Wheat"
as a filler. The ball sweges in the chamber without shaving any lead. A mixture
of beeswax and motor oil goes over the ball. The mixture is stiff like Crisco.
We wipe the chambers and barrel after every 5 shots.
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Old May 21, 2010, 01:01 PM   #3
RemTim
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Why 5 shots instead of 6? I assume it is because of thew empty cylinder under the hammer. Threw me off; it is six for me as the remmy has the safety notches between the nipples.

Last edited by RemTim; May 21, 2010 at 01:31 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 01:37 PM   #4
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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The range officers will not let you load all six in a match. Plus all pistol matches are 10 shots. It's easier to keep track just loading five.
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Old May 21, 2010, 01:42 PM   #5
RemTim
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My bad. Never been to a fancy shootin ange. I have a shooter's paradise in my back yard. 20 acres or so of open field, then a pond, woods then an old mill pond, then more woods; plenty of places to shoot and no one to give me any rules to follow.,,,and my inlaws own the land.
[IMG][/IMG]

Oh by the way, you wouldn't believe the deer out in the clearing early in the morning. I could sit on the toilet and shoot out the window.

Last edited by RemTim; May 21, 2010 at 02:18 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 02:12 PM   #6
PetahW
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I've always used straight Crisco lard, after every chamber was charged - packing what little room atop the ball was left, wiping the Crisco off flush with the chamber mouth(s).

Besides providing double insurance against any chainfiring/crossfiring, Crisco postioned ahead of the ball has zero chance of fouling the powder on hot days, or in a cylinder hot from frequent shooting - and is pushed ahead of the ball, lubricating it during it's travel downbore.

I've always used the same .457" ball in both my .45 capguns (an Italian M1860 & a stainless ROA), shaving off a nice little ring all around each chamber mouth at seating.

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Old May 21, 2010, 02:22 PM   #7
RemTim
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Quote:
packing what little room atop the ball was left, wiping the Crisco off flush with the chamber mouth(s).
I tried that for a while, the crisco blew out of the remaining cylinders ofter the first shot. I thought about wax, or mixing the crisco with a hardener.
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Old May 21, 2010, 02:34 PM   #8
PetahW
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[the crisco blew out of the remaining cylinders ofter the first shot]

Wow - In over 35 years of cap 'n ball revolver shooting, I've never seen that occur - either with my guns, or other guns I or my friends were shooting.

The only thing I would even hazzard a WAG as to the cause, would be that yer balls weren't big enough !

BUT............. "Maybe" a revolver with cylinder/chamber(s) slightly out of alignment with the bore at full cock/firing, could have sufficient side spitting, or spitback, to clean out the Crisco the way you've related.

I would definitely try .457" RB's - but also check each empty chamber for bore alignment @ full cock, in case something's amiss.

The .457"'s would give a better seal/shaving, and the 2nd insurance of Crisco "should" remain in place until that chamber was fired.
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Old May 21, 2010, 02:49 PM   #9
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I punch out wax board wads made from juice containers that can be doubled or tripled up if necessary.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ight=wax+board

And Cabela's sells vegetable fiber wads by the 1000 for a very reasonable price that can eliminate the need for any lube.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...1&postcount=16

I'm aware that the heat from the flames can cause most of the Crisco over ball lube to melt after the first shot. But using only a very tiny bit of Bore Butter lube over the ball in only one or two chambers doesn't really cause any mess but still helps to lube the bore if desired.

One issue with lubing the chamber walls is if the balls have a loose fit then the lube can actually cause them to creep forward during firing. Someone else complained that their loaded balls kept creeping up in their chambers until they realized that they needed to keep their chamber walls free of any lube before loading.
But every chamber and loading situation is different depending on ball size.

RemTim, what method & tools did you use to chamfer your chambers with?

Last edited by arcticap; May 21, 2010 at 03:06 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:00 PM   #10
RemTim
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Most of the crisco blows out, never noticed it until after I read the article I provided. I checked the bore to chamber alignment on both my remmies, it was true and the crisco blows out of the remaining chambers (not all of it but most of it). So I just wipe the crisco around the ball seat...
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:03 PM   #11
RemTim
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So far so good on the ball creep, it hasn't happened since switching to .454. I did have that problem with .451 w/o pre lubing the chamber entrance.
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:24 PM   #12
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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Range where we shoot

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Old May 21, 2010, 03:35 PM   #13
RemTim
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Nice range! I don't even know where the nearest shooting range is around here and in my backyard there is no travel required, no rules, never closes and I am a bit of a loner at that.... Howeve, my brother in law keeps talking about putting a shooting range in portion of the spot shown in the pic. I hope he leaves it like it is.
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:41 PM   #14
arcticap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticap
RemTim, what method & tools did you use to chamfer your chambers with?
Did you use the chamfering tool mentioned in the article?
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:51 PM   #15
RemTim
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Articap, I did not use a chambering tool, just my finger and 400 sandpaper and a cone shaped grinding bit for my drill. I don't know what you call it and I wrapped the paper around it and gently worked it by hand. I took my time and the edge seems to be uniformly shaped. I kind of suspect, it could stand a little more working. I have checked and went over it a few times. Perhaps, I haven't chamfered it enough. I figured if I take too little off I can correct it, if I take too much off ,I can not correct it.
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:59 PM   #16
arcticap
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Here's a photo of kwhi43's chamfered chambers:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....01&postcount=9
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Old May 21, 2010, 04:06 PM   #17
RemTim
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Thanks articap, mine needs a little more work. I was hoping someone would have a good pic.
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Old May 21, 2010, 05:20 PM   #18
suzukibruce
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so why would you chamfer a chamber?
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Old May 21, 2010, 05:38 PM   #19
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This is why Sam Colt chamferred the chambers:

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Old May 21, 2010, 06:08 PM   #20
suzukibruce
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so a burning piece of powder can reverse, go into another chamber, past the crisco, past the ball, past the wad, past the corn meal and into the powder and ignite another cylinder that wasnt fired? am i the only one that this seems extremely unlikely to happen or am i missing something? i dont even see it getting past the ball...
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Old May 21, 2010, 06:18 PM   #21
RemTim
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SB, I think the hot gases ignite the powder in the adjoining cylinder as heat and fire are drawn to ignitable materials. A perfectly round unshaven ball will enable a impenetrable seal that will not require filling in the empty space of the chamber in order to prevent a chain fire.
Most Italian reproductions have a sharp edge at the entrance of the chamber that cuts into the ball leaving it misshapen. A chamfered cylinder has a tapered outer edge that allows the ball to be pressed in retaining more (preferably all) of its roundness, therefore eliminating the possibility of a chain fire in the front of the cylinder......which is what I would like to achieve.
I have never read or heard of any accounts of the practice of filling in the empty portion of the chambers in the civil war or the Old West, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Last edited by RemTim; May 21, 2010 at 08:14 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 08:23 PM   #22
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There is much in that article I don't agree with, especially using corn meal to reduce fouling (first time I've ever heard that one - his entire treatise on reducing fouling is just plain bizzare!), but on balance I agree with some of his recommendations. I would agree that chamfering is an improvement worth adding to your revolver's chamber mouths for two reasons: swaging the ball to fit the chamber is better than cutting it (although his hyperbole about making the ball undersize is just nuts, unless the chamber is cone shaped) and to a lesser extent the idea about controlling the flame makes some sense.

Reshaping the ball from a sphere to an oblate spheroid by swaging it into the chamber is actually a good thing for accuracy. The spheroid is easier to stabilize by rotating it as the inertia about the axis of rotation is greater than that about the radial axis. The relatively short barrel of a revolver makes this less important but every little bit helps.

And you're right - it's the gas that causes chain fires, not sparks or hot grains of powder. And a hot gas can easily make it through the convoluted path from chamber to chamber from either the front or the back of the cylinder.
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Old May 21, 2010, 08:35 PM   #23
RemTim
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With a properly chamfered cylinder, the ball seat sealed with crisco and a lubricated ball, is it necessary to fill the empty space of the chamber with crisco or wax? Or would it be overkill? I usually shoot 1 cylinder at a time, clean and reload so fouling is a secondary concern.

Last edited by RemTim; May 21, 2010 at 08:42 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 08:43 PM   #24
mykeal
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There is, in my opinion, no need for grease or lube of any sort to prevent a chain fire if you have a properly fitting ball AND properly fitting caps. Period.

Lubrication is, again my opinion, to reduce fouling buildup. It softens the fouling and prevents it from caking. It is well worth using, but it's value in preventing a chain fire is secondary.

And the bit about fouling filling up the rifling in the bore and making the bullet unstable is, well, just stunning.:barf:
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Old May 21, 2010, 08:54 PM   #25
RemTim
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I guess I keep wanting to hear that the chamber filling is unnecessary if you only shoot 1 cylinder at a time. If it is necessary, I will, of course resume the practice. I would like for my 5th and 6th shot to be pretty much as accurate as possible. I carry my guns loaded,, so I am concerned about leakage in the summer months, so wax as a lubricant would be acceptable for me, but I prefer to look of the cylinder chambers without the lube. If I find the need to show someone the action end of the gun, I want them to see what is about to hit them. No pun or humor intended by that statement.
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