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Old May 16, 2010, 10:33 PM   #1
ohioleadslinger
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Kroger: New policy of no CCW 4/28/10

To preface this, I am very active with Ohioans for Concealed Carry. Ohio's PAC and lobby on CCW and all gun rights. That said please read this post if you shop at Kroger or just care about CCW rights.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy change has Kroger banning Licensed Concealed Carry. In a abrupt about face Kroger has decided to ban licensed carry at their stores per a email to one of Ohioans for Concealed Carry's coordinators.

Quote:
Thank you for contacting Kroger. The concealed weapons policy was updated and as of 4/28/10 our policy reads:
"Concealed Weapons - even if you have License to carry still can't carry." I understand your frustrations and I will be forwarding your concerns to our Division office for review. If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to contact me back. Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us.

Sincerely,

Nicole Belcamino
Consumer Affairs

Reference: 8969xxx
This Ohioans for Concealed Carry contact was prompted by a ousting of a licensee at a Kroger's for printing. Printing isn't illegal in Ohio.

Here is a link to the letter that Kroger sent the man ejected from the store after he complained about his treatment.

Here is the link to the OFCC thread on the whole incident up until now.

Please everyone that shops at Kroger contact them and let them know you will take your business elsewhere should they follow this new policy.

If we flood them like we did back in 2004 with emails they will relent again.

We are getting reports that this new anti CCW policy is not just a regional Division policy. Reports are Dublin Ohio has received this new policy and they are far out of the Cinci Division. Looks like this may be a chain wide.
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Old May 16, 2010, 11:49 PM   #2
chexmix
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This is what i wrote Kroger. As much as I hate the State of Ohio, GO BLUE!!!!, this is uncalled for.


This letter is to inform the Kroger Company that I will be taking my business to Meijer.

I was recently informed that per Kroger policy that LICENSED concealed pistol permit holders are not allowed to carry in Kroger stores.

As a long time Kroger shopper, I am very upset at this change in policy. Does your company really think that changing a policy and posting signs will keep CRIMINALS from bringing guns in to your stores? I believe that shoplifting is against store policy, and the law, but that still continues to happen in your stores.

Until this policy is changed Meijer will be collecting my $400 a month grocery bill.

Steve
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Old May 17, 2010, 06:47 AM   #3
ohioleadslinger
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We really need folks to email them into oblivion on this. Economic pressure is what worked before.
We are trying to get a copy of the actual policy from a source that works there and get it out. The need now is urget to get this message out.

Please everyone cross post my original post on your favorite gun local gun forums and keep burying them in emails.
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Old May 17, 2010, 10:52 AM   #4
BigV
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ohioleadslinger: Thanks for posting this on The Firing Line!
I have been following the thread on OFCC and it’s very important that we make our thoughts known to Kroger. I sent an e-mail last week and followed up with a snail mail letter today. If we hit them where it counts (the pocket book) we will have an impact on their bottom line.

I for one am damn tired of companies trampling or rights and I for one will not take it any more.
I urge everyone to get involved and contact Kroger to voice their displeasure with the new policy!
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Old May 17, 2010, 11:02 AM   #5
Don P
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If you do enter the store carring concealed how are they to know? All they can do is ask you to leave the property. Don't ask don't tell I say.
As it is no one should know if you are concealed carry if done right.
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Old May 17, 2010, 11:25 AM   #6
Mike Irwin
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It would appear that this move affects not just Ohio Krogers, but stores in all states where CCW is legal.

Krogers are moving closer to where I live in Virgina, but I don't shop there as it's out of the way.

Given this, I won't be shopping there.
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Old May 17, 2010, 11:30 AM   #7
ncpatriot
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I'm surprised to hear this. Our nearby Kroger isn't posted, as of the last few days.
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Old May 17, 2010, 11:35 AM   #8
ohioleadslinger
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New information coming in from OFCC member:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgelj
Just received a phone call from Kroger. The woman I spoke with said that only the Mid-Atlantic Division and the Cinci division will be posting their stores. This is in response to some incident (she could not tell me what) that occurred in one of the stores. The new policy is for both employees and customers in those stores. In all other stores legal carry of fireams is fine. The head of those divisions made the call. This is being posted here and BFA
(
Informational:

Kroger Limited Partnership I (Mid-Atlantic division)
3631 Peters Creek Rd.
Roanoke, VA 24019-4002
540-563-3500
Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Ohio


Kroger Limited Partnership I (Cincinnati division)
150 Tri-County Parkway
Cincinnati, OH 45246
513-782-3300
Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana
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Last edited by ohioleadslinger; May 17, 2010 at 12:05 PM.
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Old May 17, 2010, 12:02 PM   #9
ohioleadslinger
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I think its now a matter of calling and emailing them. The fact that words they used "ONLY" is used, pi**** me off even more. Divide and conquer folks.
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Old May 17, 2010, 01:35 PM   #10
ohioleadslinger
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I just got off the phone with Kroger and I can confirm this is their new policy in the Mid Atlantic and Cinci divisions. I registered a complaint and they said a rep will call back. Everyone needs to call and email and snail mail them.
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Old May 17, 2010, 02:07 PM   #11
Glenn E. Meyer
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So someone was stupid in this region. I guess the other regions don't have scary or stupid people?

Great logic. Point that out. They are saying Ohio folks don't have it together with gun totin', like other regions.

Of course, if they ban in all their regions, I take no responsibility for this idea.
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Old May 17, 2010, 02:28 PM   #12
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I'm in Vegas. The stores here owned by Kroger, are Smith's. They don't have signs posted and it would be meaningless if they did. Under state law signs have no legal weight. All they can do is ask me to leave if they do find out I am carrying.

However if treated like the person in the link I would definitely be having something to say to corporate.

I sent an E-mail anyway to Kroger. They may ignore me though since I don't live in the affected area..
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Old May 17, 2010, 06:38 PM   #13
ohioleadslinger
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Stand by...Amazing what a few thousand emails will do to get a change in a change of policy...I'll be posting their response as soon as we have official copy..
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Old May 17, 2010, 06:52 PM   #14
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Just to stir the pot a bit, Kroger locally (Fred Meyer) defines "service animal" as a "seeing eye dog" -- That's NOT the definition according to American's With Disabilities Act.

ADA rules prohibit asking a person the nature of their disability. It's fairly easy to prove disabled status. Most social agencies provide ID. Then, "any animal which provides any service to a disabled person" is considered a "service animal."

No registration, certification, licensing. The owner is responsible for the behavior of the animal, liable for the animal. "Reasonable accommodation" must be provided by law, and the animal cannot be barred from any area which is generally accessible to the public.

Kroger, as a private property owner, has the right to bar CCW, but service animals are regulated by federal law, Dept. of Justice, and ADA.

So -- Because sometimes I get assertive -- I'm thinking CCW AND a service animal, just because Kroger needs to get the message.

"Shall not be infringed" and all that.
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Old May 17, 2010, 07:38 PM   #15
ohioleadslinger
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This is our coordinator with OFCC quoted from another forum, he is referring to Andy (ahudson) who this whole thing was all about,

Quote:
Just got a phone call from Andrew and it looks like we have won. Kroger corporate called his wife saying they were overwhelmed with the response, we are melting their phone lines, tying up the computers and they want this over. He told her we can carry but the gun must be concealed. So it sounds like they are ready to capitulate. I will look forward to seeing the letter they send him to that effect.

Thanks to all who made the calls and wrote, it looks like your actions have won the day!
Still, they want no more OC and that pi***** me off. He wasn't OC'ING!

ANYHOW Everyone you all did it! We all pulled it together and made them see there is a force to be reckoned with and its name is Gun Culture.
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Pi**ing contests are boring, and quite often you get your feet wet and make them stink!
Fat people are harder to kidnap!
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Last edited by ohioleadslinger; May 17, 2010 at 07:54 PM.
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Old May 18, 2010, 02:35 AM   #16
maestro pistolero
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That was fast. Their policy in Ohio would have negatively effected them nationally. Example: I'm in Vegas and I would have stopped all shopping at Smith's. That's many thousands of dollars per year from just this one, two person household. Good move, Kroger. Best thing to do when you've made a grave error in judgment is reverse course immediately. Let them try to ban open carry here or AZ. They'll get the same reaction. Voting with my wallet is fun!
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Old May 18, 2010, 09:14 AM   #17
M4Sherman
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I have heard of stores banning employees from carrying weapons (knifes,guns pointy sticks) but I have never heard of a chain as large as Kroger having a policy change that disallows customers to carry anything as long as they where legal to do so
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Old May 18, 2010, 10:31 AM   #18
ohioleadslinger
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Sigh, they are still putting out a flawed new revised policy..

They are saying they must post because of the D license for wine tasting events.

NOT TRUE

They have D6 and D8 licenses and those have exemption for CC if we are not tasting. Its clear in ORC 2923.121.


KEEP calling and emailing folks. I'm sorry it looks like it was premature to call victory.

They are posting because of their flawed interpretation of Ohio liquor law. SO they say but we have information that they are using this as a cover for the initial reason they did the policy change.

In any event this is my response back to Kroger CYA email they sent me today.
Quote:
Dear Sir,
There is some clarification that we are trying to distribute concerning the Concealed Weapon policy. Concealed weapons are not allowed in establishments with Class D Liquor licenses that serve alcohol. Those store should have that posted. Other stores that do not serve alcohol will allow concealed weapons to be carried. Signs should not be posted at those establishments. Weapons that are not clearly concealed and are brought to a store’s notice, the carrier of the firearm can be asked to leave the premises.

Timothy Titus
Kroger Customer Relations
Quote:
Dear Mr. Titus,

It seems there has been an error in interpretation by your compliance department of section 2923.121 of the ORC in regards to prohibition of licensed concealed carry in class D establishments .

The law reads as follows:

2923.121 Possession of firearm in liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming liquor in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

(B)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(e) Any person who is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued to the person by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code and who possesses the firearm in a retail store with D-6 and D-8 permits issued for that store under sections 4303.182 and 4303.184 of the Revised Code or a D-8 permit issued for that store under section 4303.184 of the Revised Code, as long as the person is not consuming liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

So as you can clearly see, someone in compliance has put you in an untenable position with regards to the actual law.

I am certain this misunderstanding and unfortunate protest resulting from a flawed interpretation of the law by Kroger can be worked out.

Until this issue is resolved I’m sure the protest will continue.

I am available to discuss it further at any time. Please feel free to call me and I’m sure we can get past this unfortunate trouble.

Sincerely
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Pi**ing contests are boring, and quite often you get your feet wet and make them stink!
Fat people are harder to kidnap!
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Last edited by ohioleadslinger; May 18, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
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Old May 19, 2010, 12:45 AM   #19
ncpatriot
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I called Kroger HQ this morning. The rep was very cordial, said he'd talked with some OH guys. He said he didn't show a post in their system from the people in charge of our area. I told him Kroger would lose our 400 to 600 dollar business each month if they disallow carry in our stores. We have other supermarkets and pharmacies that would love our business.
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Old May 19, 2010, 01:12 AM   #20
johnwilliamson062
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Guess I have to send another mail. had some friends send also. Will push a few more to send this time around.

I can OC in all their competitors stores. I won't go back if they just capitulate on CCW.
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Old May 19, 2010, 08:09 AM   #21
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Thanks for keeping us updated on this incident. (I just sent an e-mail showing support from the Kentucky area.) I guess every little e-mail helps with rectifying senseless restrictions on law abiding gun owners.
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Old May 19, 2010, 09:59 AM   #22
ohioleadslinger
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We are still waiting on an official response and the protest is still in effect. Keep emailing and calling everyone.
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Pi**ing contests are boring, and quite often you get your feet wet and make them stink!
Fat people are harder to kidnap!
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Old May 20, 2010, 09:43 AM   #23
ncpatriot
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Still no news in my Kroger

I talked to the head pharmacist at Kroger yesterday when I got medicine. She hadn't heard of the issue. Said she tried to say in the loop on corporate news/policy. She did say, "who will know if you have it concealed?" I explained the issues that could present, trouble we could get into. She understood that. She is going to ask around. I have 2 customer comments posted on their site, haven't heard back from them yet.

What is everyone's thinking here? Should we all boycott them because they are wrong in 1 state? Or should we be loyal to the ones that allow us to carry? Maybe each ccw holder speak to manager after each visit, thank him for the respect and tell how much we bought that visit? Feedback to HQ with numbers might mean something to them and cause them to rethink.

We are more than a few but not a large enough group to shut them down by staying away. But we are enough people and $ to move the sales revenues up or down a few points.

Like to hear from everyone, especially people in central NC. Let's see how much we collectively spend at Kroger stores in a week or month. Kroger is our main store; we spend 400 to 600 each month, sometimes more.
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Old May 20, 2010, 11:20 AM   #24
ohioleadslinger
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My feeling is we supported Starbucks because they stood up to the anti's. Why shouldn't we pull together and protest this. I don't care much for Starbucks but I buy at least a Venti Cafee Mocha a week now to supoort them.
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Pi**ing contests are boring, and quite often you get your feet wet and make them stink!
Fat people are harder to kidnap!
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Old May 20, 2010, 01:03 PM   #25
ohioleadslinger
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The protest is still going. Now Kroger is telling anyone outside the Cinci Division that emails to complain that this is over two OC incidents, not true. If you email them and are within the Cinci Division customer base, they are saying its about class D liquor license also not true. So which is it and why the two different reasons depending on where the complaint comes from??

Kroger, do you really think we are stupid and we do not share information?

Keep the pressure on...
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Fat people are harder to kidnap!
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