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Old August 20, 2010, 03:03 PM   #101
foghorn leghorn
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Mal

No implications sir, just know you fellas try to keep things on track, and I thought maybe i was a little on either side of the lane. I didn't want to violate your topic is all.

just apologizing in advance
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Old August 20, 2010, 06:54 PM   #102
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No worries, foghorn. You've provided your own experiences with GPal in earnest. Nothing wrong with that at all...
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Old August 20, 2010, 07:53 PM   #103
SimplySebastian
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Hopefully it's okay for me to follow up. Its been about a month since I last posted and I still haven't seen a dime of my money. I haven't been as persistent as the rest of you however as I don't have the time to keep hounding GPAL. My account still shows that my balance is $0 but the check I was supposed to get three weeks ago never came. If I get my money I will post back with my "positive" resolution.

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Old August 23, 2010, 01:33 PM   #104
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That's what I did Sebastian. Although I am cranky as heck about the situation I had to at least post my resolution so guys like you knew it was even possible to get small amounts back. Mine was only $300, but that is enough to buy a gun with...
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Old September 1, 2010, 01:29 PM   #105
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I've had 2 large withdrawals from Gpal this summer that were both problematic. In each case it took a month to get my money. I did a "test" withdrawal on 7/30 and took out the rest of my balance...a measly $4.40. It's been over 4 weeks and still no $4.40 yet. I've written Gpal off for good and will NEVER use them again. They are a horrible company to deal with and have crap customer service!!!

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Old September 5, 2010, 09:37 PM   #106
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This is so unjust.. Gpal.. Gunpal.. be honest and do the right thing!

I am still waiting for my $733.83 from Gunpal/Gpal.net.. call them whatever. Have been waiting since 7/28/2010. First they claimed they had a mess up caused by my bank.. WRONG. Second they claimed there was a mess up on their end. They for three phone calls it was " a new guy who didn't know how to work the system to help". Then they commited on 8/18 to make sure my money was to me within 2-7 days.. Didn't happen. This is so wrong. They do not answer the phone most often. Sending in "tickets" to support yields absolutely nothing. I want my money!

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Old September 6, 2010, 05:51 AM   #107
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I got my money when promised - oh well they must have run out of money guess the new wait will be till xmas when santa brings some new cash

I know its not funny but what else can you do ...

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Old September 21, 2010, 09:01 AM   #108
MrsCollins
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Finally got money from Gpal 7/28 funds arrived 9/15

Hello, successfully money showed up randomly in checking account after filing with the following agencies.. Yes, I do believe these filings made a difference after forever of not being able to get Gpal on the phone or engaged in email.

Try doing this:
File with the USA Better Business Bureau (not local but USA)
File with the California Attorney General's office
File with the Attorney General office in the state you live in
File with the Federal Trade Commission.

I filed with all of these.. it made a difference! Surely hope it does for you.

Julie Collins
julie@jasminescottage.com
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Old September 21, 2010, 08:45 PM   #109
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I finely got my money got a check in the mail . Not over night plain old mail started in June and money in mid August . Last I look was still taking money from people that don't know any better.
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Old October 6, 2010, 03:57 AM   #110
SimplySebastian
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If GPal still hasn't transfered your money to you and you would like to contact law enforcement about it please call the following individual.

Carl Chapman (707) 265-2372

He's with the Marin County DA's office. They'll be taking the lead on the investigation I think. Mr. Chapman is also a supervisor in the Northern California Computer Crimes Task Force. Here is their website.

http://www.nc3tf.org/default.aspx
http://www.nc3tf.org/contactlist.aspx

I would guess that the task force will be investigating this matter. It is important that you call him if you want a shot at getting your money back. I think the BBB has been forwarding complaints to Marin County so they may already have your information if you've gone that route.

It seems like it's been a while since GPal's paid anyone and Ben/GPalVP is MIA. Now is the time to try to get something out of them even if it takes a while. It's too bad but I don't think any of us will see a dime.
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Old October 7, 2010, 03:59 PM   #111
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Recently started as a clearinghouse for information on troubles with GPal, please click on the link to GPal Info.com.
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Old October 7, 2010, 04:04 PM   #112
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Just got off the phone with Mr. Carl Chapman. Very nice guy and sounds like he wants to help. I'll be collecting all correspondence with gPal and sending it on to him.

I'm not out that much money, but it is still my money that customers paid me for services rendered.
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Old October 12, 2010, 04:11 PM   #113
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Gpal

I am having the same problem I transfered 206.71 on 9-3-10 and 743.28 on 9-9-10 and still has not been deposited to my account. And they DO NOT respond to emails and DO NOT answer the phone anymore. Anybody know what legal authority to contact??
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Old October 12, 2010, 04:28 PM   #114
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Welcome to The Firing Line, chris96324. Look at SimplySebastian's post, about 3 posts above yours, and Al Norris' post just below that.
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Old October 21, 2010, 05:02 PM   #115
deblaw223
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I just talked to Carl.

He said to send reports to the Internet Crimes Complaint Center because he is getting overwhelmed. They will send info to him for his investigation.
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Old October 26, 2010, 07:13 AM   #116
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Copied from email from GunsAmerica:
Now, back to Gpal. Because even though we never endorsed Gpal or integrated it into GunsAmerica, a number of our sellers did take payments through them. Many have emailed us that they are unable to withdraw their funds now and have asked for help. We also have a lot of buyers who buy guns on all the online sites who are caught in the middle and have emailed us to see if we know anything.

I spoke to Carl Chapman from the Marin County District Attorney's Office, who is in charge of managing this case. The Gpal case is an open investigation, not a case that has been labeled criminal at this time. There are several agencies involved and as far as I can tell, nobody should assume right now that Gpal did anything illegal. Everyone who made and accepted payments with them trusted them to be a successful enterprise. This could just be a speed bump from which they have yet to recover. Even PayPal had speed bumps, and they too were accused of fraudulent activity at the time.

We are sending this email to let you know how to file a complaint. We have nothing to do with Gpal and have no knowledge of their relationships with other online gun buying and selling sites and/or internet discussion forums. We elected to not do business with Gpal from the start because of exactly these concerns.

Mr. Chapman has asked that all complaints go through The Internet Crime Complaint Center. The URL for the form is at http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/.

Don't worry, this is not a black hole of government inaction. All the complaints for this case go right to Mr. Chapman in spreadsheet form that is easier for him to deal with than individual complaints on the telephone. There are SEVEN TO TEN SCREENS to click through of questions to get to the final form (which you see hanging on the right here). Hang in there! The questions don't really fit this case, but answer them as close to what makes sense. I clicked through a few times with different answers and it didn't seem to matter how you answered them. They all lead to the final form.

Hopefully the situation with Gpal will resolve itself and everyone will get their money back. Many small gun dealers, accepting the endorsements of trusted entities (GunsAmerica not being one of them), trusted Gpal and took payments through them. They need those funds! We pray that Gpal does make it through and that no fraudulent activity is found so that everyone gets their money. The gun industry is a very small place and we are attacked from the outside by people and organizations every day. It is better for all of us to assume the best in each other, not the worst, and let the problems work themselves out if at all possible.

Whether you choose to use Gpal now or in the future is up to you. We do not authorize any third party payment system. It is still a free country to some extent. And we most likely will not be updating our information about Gpal in the future as we have nothing to do with them. The only public support forum we know of was recently closed by those hosting them. Regular customer support at Gpal is support@gpal.net and the customer support phone number is 1-800-813-4725

Attached is pic of the form they included in email.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ic3-wdropshadow.jpg (105.7 KB, 17 views)
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Old November 16, 2010, 08:54 PM   #117
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I got this in my mailbox from GPal today. I'm not sure what to make of it. I have not and will not use them until they get their act straightened out. If they get it straightened out.

Quote:
Dear XXXX XXX,

As some of you may be aware of, GPal has been experiencing growing pains that are typical of a startup business in an industry that banks are often are hostile to. As a result, a small number of GPal customers have experienced delays and extra requests for information related to their transactions, involving our Automatic Clearing House (ACH) bank withdrawal payout system, affecting the timely dispersal of funds outside of GPal.

Please note that credit cards and GPal-to-GPal transactions have not been affected, and that most customers at GPal are completely unaffected. Only a small number of customers that have had transactions occur at critical times have seen these delays, however we felt it important to notify our customers about these issues.

We at GPal know that this letter has been a long time coming and we sincerely apologize for any delays or inconveniences regarding this matter. While we cannot get into particulars due to pending litigation, we can give our customers a summation of what has been going on and what we are doing to fix it.

The Situation.

When we founded GPal, I knew life would be difficult for a firearms-friendly and otherwise pro-rights payment processor because banks generally do not like working with payment processors, especially ones that cater to the firearms community. Combining the two proved to be a non-starter for years.

Eventually, we were connected to Bank 1. Bank 1 agreed to take on our business but only with with a substantial cash reserve, which I funded out of pocket. Gpal utilized this bank’s processing services for several months and with excellent results. Then, one day, we received a notice that our ability to disburse funds via ACH had been cancelled. It was found later that our ACH access was cancelled a week prior and without notice. This caused a noticeable delay in funding and thus the first "ripple" that GPal experienced.

After finding out about Bank 1, we quickly moved to using Bank 2, a bank we were already in negotiations with. Within two weeks, the ripple was over and ACH disbursements continued but my team had to complete each transaction by hand until Bank 2 finished our back-end integration. This process usually takes a grueling 6 months or more but we were ready in less than 20 days.

Within a short period of time, Bank 2 unceremoniously shut us off. At that point, we decided to begin issuing paper checks to our customers, a solution that cost many thousands of dollars in mailing and printing fees out of my own pocket. We used an established third-party payment vendor to print and send these checks but many of the banks who received these checks told our customers they were fakes. After many teleconferences, all of the banks eventually reversed their opinions and concluded the checks were real, thus allowing our customers to access their funds.

Soon after new banking agreements were signed with Banks 3 and 4 and 5, we stopped issuing paper checks and went back to conducting transfers through ACH. This went well for about a month, until Bank 3 shut off our services, less than 30 days later.

We expanded our operations to Bank 6 and Bank 7, who initially accepted our business then reversed their acceptance less than 30 days in. We posted notifications on our Withdrawl Money page, and our support pages, to notify customers that there may be problems affecting a small portion of GPal transactions.

We now continue to operate with Bank 4, Bank 5, and two new banks Bank 8 and soon Bank 9, as a risk-mitigation move. However, the total amount of processing reserves on the outbound side, plus processing reserves on the inbound side, are significantly larger than we expected. In addition, our credit card processing banks scrutinize each transaction, often asking for secondary validation information before releasing (or holding) funds. This is a normal activity and the reason why we occasionally ask you for a tracking number or some other proof of delivery for a product or service.

Credit card fraud is rampant in this day and age, and GPal has seen this first-hand. We were able to build a sophisticated munti-aspect fraud mitigation system, and while we are below industry averages, we have taken our share of fraud related losses. This affects the terms of our relationship and funds required on deposit with our credit card processing banks.

Finally, several individuals hostile to our business have made threatening calls to GPal customers, impersonating GPal staff, and taken other actions against us, which further hurts our ability to conduct business. Please note that GPal will only call you from our support number, and will only communicate with you via support@gpal.net.

Thought all of this, GPal has fought tooth and nail to continue to bring it’s customers the services they need, and we continue to disburse money to our customers within the bounds of bank requirements. It is our aim to provide you the best pro-rights payment processing possible, and we will not waiver in that commitment.

What we are doing about it.

GPal depends on banks both to take in and send out money. Most of what we do is provide a conduit between these banks so that our customers can transact business. We are at the mercy of these banks and their requirements in order to bring you the GPal product, and since banks are involved in both ends of a transaction, we sometimes are asked for more information.

The various banks that GPal processes with need security. To do that, they retain a varying portion of the funds we transmit. At first I financed many of these reserves with my own funds so when the banks would not pay out you received my money. However, I am unable to do that forever, so GPal is expanding.

- GPal is growing it's operations and shoring up it's banking relationships with additional funds.
- GPis is establishing new strategic partnerships that will increase volume and capability of GPal to process payments.
- GPal is going to offer a Debit Card so that our customers can access their funds in realtime, without depending on the long transit time of ACH.
- GPal is hiring more email and phone support staff to help deal with the increased level of customer service requests.


How you can help.

You can help by:
1. Promptly providing confirmation information when GPal Support asks for it (usually this is tracking numbers, description of goods, and personal or business identity documentation.)
2. Please keep issues confined to one email ticket by replying to that same ticket, and do not repeatedly call GPal’s 800 support line so the line can be kept clear for new issues.
3. If you are interested in other avenues of helping, please contact GPal support at support@gpal.net.


In order to get back on our feet and fully recover, GPal must expand it's offerings, including but not limited to offering a Debit Card for easier and immediate funds access for our sellers and expanding our processing base. To do so we need your help.

GPal remains absolutely committed to providing the only RKBA and firearms-friendly payment service in the world.

Sincerely,

Ben Cannon
Chairman/CEO
GPal, Inc.
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Old November 17, 2010, 11:30 AM   #118
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Well, there we have the story straight from The Man himself. I hope all is as he says and his business is able to ultimately succeed. I never liked the (original) name but I always root for the entrepreneur.
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Old November 17, 2010, 01:32 PM   #119
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That letter should have been sent out a few months ago. It might be too late to repair the damage. There are a slew of merchants on Gunbroker that flat out refuse to accept GPal.
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Old November 17, 2010, 01:34 PM   #120
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I have had to explain several customers that we couldn't take gunpal/gpal anymore because they have refused to get us our money on prior sales where we have shipped because our customers paid. So, we are out the money and don't have the product we sold--a double hit.
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Old November 30, 2010, 07:31 AM   #121
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It gets even better, now GPal is starting up an auction site. Apparently to compete with eBay? If you are successfully selling whatever your product is on eBay, I'm not sure why you would move to a no-name start-up auction site. Especially since GunBroker and AuctionArms pretty much fill the gap. I guess competition is good but considering GPal's previous inability to function, this does not instill confidence.

Quote:
Announcing Bidscapes Bulk Lister with eBay(tm) Import.

Dear XXX XXX,

Bidscapes.com, the number one rights-neutral auction website on the net, is pleased to announce the Bidscapes Bulk Lister, which will allow any eBay seller to easily transition onto Bidscapes by simply exporting listings from eBay's Turbolister via CSV and importing them into the Bidscapes Bulk Lister.

To download the Bidscapes Bulk Lister with eBay(tm) Import, just click here: http://www.bidscapes.com/members_are...ection=details

(Or if the hyperlink does not work, please copy the link and paste into your browser to access)

As a special “Thank You!” to our valued customers, GPal has extended our new sign-up promotion at Bidscapes. Any GPal users who sign up during December 2010 will earn a $10 credit at Bidscapes.com that can be used toward final-value fees for live auctions.

At Bidscapes.com, it is free to list any item and only a small and reasonable final value fee is assessed when an item is sold.

Bidscapes.com is a place to freely trade the legal goods and services of your choice. Bidscapes.com has partnered with GPal to offer the only combination of pro-RKBA Auctions and Payments in the world. Bidscapes.com will accept payment exclusively via GPal for all fees. Bidscapes.com customers may pay each other directly through GPal or via offline payment menthods. GPal.net and Bidscapes.com remain absolutely committed to providing the only RKBA and firearms-friendly payment and auction combination in the world.

Sincerely,
Bidscapes.com and GPal.net
Proud Partners providing a rights-neutral forum for your transactions!
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Old December 3, 2010, 09:23 PM   #122
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FBI Notice Regarding GPal

The FBI has included a description of GPal in it's latest "Scam Alerts" newsletter. Here's the GPal section:

Quote:
Payment Processor Possibly Conducting a Ponzi Scheme

Since January 2010, the IC3 has received hundreds of complaints regarding a website that victims reportedly used to transfer money for the sales of firearms; however, the website has not allowed them to withdraw the funds after their merchandise was sold.

The website claims to be a payment processor to be used as an alternative to other familiar online payment transfer services and was created to allow for the purchase of items that others of its kind do not allow (e.g., firearms). The website encourages consumers to use their services by advertising that they send money to consumers or anyone with an email address, an individual can easily pay for anything using the web, and sign-up is free, quick, and easy.

The website appears to have been set up as a legitimate business but shortly after operations began, customers started experiencing funding delays. Ultimately, customers who received funds only received partial payments, and those payments were delayed by months.

Additional research indicates that the money submitted for transfer may have been fraudulently misappropriated. This scam appears to have become a Ponzi scheme with previous customers being paid by funds from new customers.
Link: http://www.ic3.gov/media/2010/101202.aspx

The FBI is comfortable calling GPal a Ponzi scheme. Not good for those of us still out money.
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Old December 3, 2010, 10:01 PM   #123
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Nowhere in your link states the FBI calls GPal a Ponzi scheme. If you don't provide SPECIFIC links that say otherwise, then your post will be deleted.
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Old December 3, 2010, 10:08 PM   #124
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Maybe I'm missing your point, but I see the exact quoted language posted by the poster when I click the link and read it.
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Old December 3, 2010, 10:26 PM   #125
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Maybe they are talking about some other payment transfer processor who is targeting firearm owners and is having trouble completing the transfers.
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