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Old May 14, 2010, 10:43 AM   #1
mete
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Riot Survival

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...r-pointer.html

Here are a few lessons on survival in a riot .It also goes double when in a third world country.
Stay far away from riots .If one develops where you are get away immediately.
Never confront soldiers/police and certainly never throw rocks , aim lasers etc at someone with a gun in his hand !!
Don't be curious don't stay around to take a few photos.

For those who remember Kent State U - a friend worked there at the time .He said many of the students were looking for trouble .Some threw rocks at soldiers . Some of the dead were "innocent victims" but there really isn't such a thing in a riot. That's why the survival rule is "stay away from riots"
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Old May 14, 2010, 10:51 AM   #2
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Ummm....

Yah...

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Old May 14, 2010, 07:23 PM   #3
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Cover or Concealment?

Looking at the pictures and reading their captions that said protestors we taking cover behind cars. Um, bullets go THROUGH cars so it is concealment, not cover.

However, notice the young woman wearing a crash helmet. She got down prone and behind a concrete curb. Since the soldiers were shooting from street level, that is cover! Smart girl!

By the way, cars are bullet magnets, so stay away from them when shooting starts. The best thing is to stay away from protests and crowds as you never know when it will turn violent.
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Old May 14, 2010, 07:43 PM   #4
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+1 from one LT to another...

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Old May 14, 2010, 08:06 PM   #5
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Damn! Its getting really heated over there.
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Old May 15, 2010, 06:17 AM   #6
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Funny how, when goes looking for trouble, it seems to find them. It comes easy enough without having to seek it out.
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Old May 15, 2010, 08:48 AM   #7
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Yeah. I figured this out one afternoon in spring of 1991, on a train that was coming into Sarajevo, in the former Yugoslavia. There were armed men *everywhere* and an electric feeling in the air, as if violence would break out any minute. I'd planned to visit friends for a few days, but decided that my life expectancy would be improved by staying on the train. :/

I sympathize with the protestors' cause in Thailand; that government has been getting away with entirely too much for too long. But there is *no* percentage in sticking around during a riot. You'll be lucky if all that happens is that you get arrested and beaten by some soldiers on an adrenalin high who can't tell you from the rest of the mob. (And probably don't care.)
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Old May 15, 2010, 08:57 AM   #8
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However, this is how change is made - by people going out onto the streets and protesting. For example, back in 1776 if everyone stayed home, "minded their own business", and went with the status quo, there would have been no United States of America!
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Old May 15, 2010, 08:59 AM   #9
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There's protesting, then there is doing stupid **** like pointing laser pointers at armed troops. More of the former, less of the latter.
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Old May 15, 2010, 08:47 PM   #10
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quote: "For those who remember Kent State U - a friend worked there at the time .He said many of the students were looking for trouble .Some threw rocks at soldiers . Some of the dead were "innocent victims" but there really isn't such a thing in a riot. That's why the survival rule is "stay away from riots" "

The average distance from the Guardsmen to the 13 people shot at Kent State was just over 100 yards. The furthest was nearly 250 yards. Of the four students killed, all but one was in excess of 100 yards, and he was still over 80 yards away. The Guardsmen fired 67 shots into the crowd. Obviously an unarmed individual is a serious enough threat at that distance to justify deadly force? Is that what you mean by no innocent victims?
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Old May 15, 2010, 09:43 PM   #11
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"Damn! Its getting really heated over there." -- biohazurd

Yeah...I wonder what those 50,000 American middle-age white guys over there for the sex trade are thinking about now...should I stay or get the hell out perhaps?


"Is that what you mean by no innocent victims?" -- DWFan

Maybe he meant something like the 'innocent vctims' of the Boston Massacre in our own history (1770)...they were none of the kind, just an angry mob that got what they deserved. But that's not what was reported then, was it, because the 'lobsterbacks' were blamed, not the crowd throwing stuff (pieces of ice and hard-packed snowballs with rocks/oyster shells inside them), and hitting soldiers (and their bayonets & musket barrels) with clubs. But what "patriot" then would have believed the truth? Especially when it didn't further the cause?

...which is one reason I have no sympathy for the stupid Palestinians (regular Darwinism Award winners) throwing rocks at Israeli solders...as mentioned by others here, it's just plain stupid to throw rocks at people with guns.

-- John D.

Last edited by cloudcroft; May 15, 2010 at 10:10 PM.
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Old May 15, 2010, 11:57 PM   #12
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Old May 16, 2010, 12:11 AM   #13
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...and Young.

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Old May 16, 2010, 10:27 AM   #14
Glenn E. Meyer
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Interestingly, people have studied riots. Sometimes, the armed police freeze and get beaten by mobs. There's a whole dominance dynamic going on.

Also about Kent State - an interesting tidbit. Met a guy who was in the National Guard as was a college student at the time in Ohio. His unit was being called up and his LT. was all a flutter about getting a chance to shoot some commie students also. His unit (college kids) suggested to him that if he gave an order to fire at students, HE might take an accidental round. His enthusiasm diminished.

Kent State was another example of a riot dynamic going out of control. Luckily the US has avoid killing our children for the most part.
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Old May 16, 2010, 11:09 PM   #15
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After Kent State, the USAF base I was stationed at established a, 'Riot Control' unit. The troops were trained to march, with fixed bayonets, to clear the streets of demonstrators. However, after the Kent State shooting scenario we were not issued ammunition. Being mostly college students who had been caught up in the Vietnam era draft, no one had any desire to be involved in any of this. The first call up of the unit resulted in the trucks showing up, but no troops waiting in the parking lot. I never heard anything more on the base 'Riot Control' unit.
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Old May 17, 2010, 07:04 AM   #16
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Agreed cloudcroft. Of the eight British soldiers tried, six were acquitted and two had the charges dropped from murder to manslaughter thanks to their attorney, and future president, John Adams.
The eight Guardsmen identified were never charged with anything other than civil rights violations and they were acquitted of that. Nixon himself commented that the students basically got what they deserved before recanting and offering his sympathy to the families of those shot.
My point was that there are very few professional baseball players that could throw a rock 100 yards with any accuracy, much less enough force to inflict any serious injury, except to possibly an eye. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who could throw one 250 yards. In my opinion, the Kent State shootings weren't justified; the Guardsmen simply panicked and that makes all of the 13 shot that day innocent victims.
Back to the original post, yes, a riot is definitely a situation best avoided. However, it is mentionable that even though peaceful demonstration is your right in this country, TEA party grandmothers have been faced with fully uniformed riot police.
Hook686, I was part of a USAF "Riot Control" unit too....and this was in 1974, four years after Kent State.

Last edited by DWFan; May 17, 2010 at 07:31 AM.
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Old May 17, 2010, 08:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Cover or Concealment?
Looking at the pictures and reading their captions that said protestors we taking cover behind cars. Um, bullets go THROUGH cars so it is concealment, not cover.
Yes and no.

The use of the word "cover" by the journalist may or may not be what we call cover in regard to whether or not it will actually stop bullets.

Bullets can go through cars, parts of cars, but cars can also stop bullets.

Quote:
By the way, cars are bullet magnets, so stay away from them when shooting starts.
Okay, you are going to have to explain this to me. How is it that cars are bullet magnets? Is it that they are bullet magnets or it is that people use them for cover and concealment and shots at those people end up being permanently recorded in the damage of the cars?

Quote:
The best thing is to stay away from protests and crowds as you never know when it will turn violent.
Wouldn't a better rule be to stay away from people because you never know when they will turn violent?
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Old May 17, 2010, 01:05 PM   #18
mete
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Turn violent ? There is such a thing as mob mentality where people in a group may act differently than as individuals. In addition in groups there may be provocateurs as there certainly were in many demonstrations in the -60s !
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Old May 20, 2010, 02:30 PM   #19
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I went to a tea party protest in downtown Tampa a few weeks ago and not only was it peaceful, it was extremely peaceful. Over 5000 folks crammed into a small area all fearful for the future of our country and not a single bad deed.

We as Americans have the right to protest not riot. The minute we cross that line the cause is sullied.
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Old May 20, 2010, 02:54 PM   #20
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IIRC, in most towns/cities in 'Land of the Free' America, you need a permit to protest in public or risk arrest by the police.

As with exercising ANOTHER right -- self-defense -- it seems Americans must have permits for their so-called RIGHTS...which should be completely unconstitutional and therefore illegal.

The SCOTUS has ruled lots of TRIVIAL stuff "unconstitutional" but when it comes to certain and much more serious RIGHTS, they do not render the same verdict...if they even HEAR the case at all since, IMO, it's a coward and so avoids hearing (refuses to hear) controversial cases (such as 2nd Amendment/RKBA, abortion, etc.).

Consequently, I'm not sure how many rights Americans actually can exercise without a permit, license or voter registration card.

-- John D.
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Old May 20, 2010, 05:18 PM   #21
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Certainly, threegun, but this thread isn't about protests. It's about surviving *riots*, which might occur more often during some types of protests but are not the same thing at all as a protest. I'm no tea-partier, but I a long-time human rights activist who has been at and in a number of protests. I don't avoid protests. I do, however, keep aware of "violence in the air" and if I sense it building, I leave. There's no good side to being trapped in a riot.
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Old May 21, 2010, 02:26 PM   #22
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Just responding to a comment above.

I do avoid protests most of the time.

I did go thru the Tampa Riot in the late 80's. I was dispatched by my parents to go stay with my grandparents and to protect them and the family business. Thankfully the riot was limited to the College Hill Ghetto some two blocks away.

My father said to lay very low and only open up if the threat looked as though it was going to focus on the shop or us. We made things look vacant until a police car parked right on the corner 2 houses down.

As a note my Mother begged her parents to leave......they refused. I asked if I could go and stay with them (loved my grandparents) and they said go. I was armed with a mini-14 and I believe a taurus pt99.
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Old May 21, 2010, 02:28 PM   #23
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I've posted this before:

I found myself in the middle of a riot in St. Petersburg Florida, 4th of July 1987. I saw the event that started it:

The traffic was all jammed up - folks were trying to get down to the Pier to watch the fireworks show. There was a Pickup Truck with several white girls riding in the back. A car with several black guys was behind the pickup truck. The girls were minding their own business - I know, because I was watching them (they were cute). Several black guys got out of the car, grabbed a couple of the girls out of the pickup truck and threw them down into the street. Then a group of redneck-white guys hopped out of their trucks with bats and ax handles and started beating the black guys - after that there were blacks and whites rioting in the street.

I was with a date and stayed in my car. I had a gun (Jennings J-22) ready to fire in case someone tried to break my window or get at me. As soon as I saw a hole to drive out of there, I did and got the heck away as fast as I could. This event never even made it to the news.

Several things I learned from this incident:

1. rioting can break out anytime there are large crouds jammed together.
2. A Jennings J-22, though better than nothing, doesn't give you a warm-fuzzy feeling in this situation (this is one of the reasons I tend to prefer full-sized pistols with large capacities)
3. Staying in your car and getting the heck out of there ASAP is the best thing you can do.

If you think rioting doesn't happen in America, IT DOES, and probably more often than you know about.

Quote:
I do, however, keep aware of "violence in the air" and if I sense it building, I leave.
Unless you completelty avoid all crouds (including football, basketball and baseball games, 4th of July fireworks/events, concerts, truck-pulls/monster trucks, car racing, or driving on I-75 around Atlanta during Freakniketc.), or even if you just drive, you could end up in the exact same situation I did. You're fooling yourself if you think you can completely avoid it.

Last edited by Skans; May 21, 2010 at 02:35 PM.
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:08 PM   #24
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Skans, How far from the St. Pete riot in 1996 were you?
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Old May 21, 2010, 03:27 PM   #25
Skans
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Skans, How far from the St. Pete riot in 1996 were you?
I had moved by then. I remember reading something about that - didn't get a lot of details. I wasn't suprised at all, though.
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