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Old May 7, 2010, 07:55 AM   #1
ArtN
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Mass. residents to buy in Washington

Hi, I visit and spend six months at a time in Washington State, I live in Massachusetts and want to buy a handgun in Washington to use while visiting etc. I hold a Massachusetts pistol permit in Massachusetts.

Washingtonn state laws says as a non-resident all I need to do is apply for permit, pay $55.00. I was in a Cabelas store and clerk told me that in order for me to purchase a handgun in the state of Washington, because of Federal Law I would need to, if I buy in Washington, have the handgrun shipped back to Massachusetts to FFl dealer, then shipped back to FFl dealer in Washington, because as Mass. resident I can only purchase in Mass.

This sounded weird to me, but today nothing surprises me.

Please help clarify whether I need to do this. I did mention to the clerk that what if I had my son buy the handgun in Washington, then sell it back to me when I am in Washington, would that be okay, he said no, we would both be in violation for Federal Law.

Help,

Thanks

Art
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Old May 7, 2010, 08:10 AM   #2
zoomie
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Clerk's right, except this part which I can't figure out.
Quote:
have the handgrun shipped back to Massachusetts to FFl dealer, then shipped back to FFl dealer in Washington.
You'd have to be there in MA in person to run the NICS check, etc, so shipping it to MA and directly back to WA would do you no good.

By federal law, you can only buy a handgun in your state of residence. And being you're from MA, I bet you can only buy a long gun in MA, too. I don't know for sure, but MA isn't exactly gun-friendly and I would expect their laws to restrict out-of-state purchases.

Your son cannot buy it and then sell it to you face-to-face, either, without transferring it to a MA FFL.

Last edited by zoomie; May 7, 2010 at 08:18 AM.
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Old May 7, 2010, 08:54 AM   #3
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These gun laws are unconstitutional.
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Old May 7, 2010, 09:31 AM   #4
ArtN
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Buying gun in Wash, to Mass resident

Hi Zoomie, thank you for clearing that up for me, it seems like inorder for me to get a handgun for my use in Washington, I will need to buy a handgun here from a FFl dealer and have it shipped to a FFl dealer in Washington, is that correct and that will solve my problem?

Thanks for your help, the Clerk at Cabelas sounded correct when he explained it to me, but I was not wanting to accept it, eh? LOL
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Old May 7, 2010, 09:46 AM   #5
vranasaurus
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Here is the definition of state of residence from 27 CFR 478.

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of
the Armed Forces, the individual’s State of residence is the State in which
his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the
United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90
days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

The question is do you maintain a home in Washington?

If so while you are there for 6 months out of the year you would be considered a resident of Washington for the purpose of the GCA. The only problem is that you have to convince the gun store employee that federal law as interpreted by the ATF considers you a resident of Washington.

If you don't maintain a home there then yes you would have to send it back to Massuchusets.
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Old May 7, 2010, 10:04 AM   #6
zoomie
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Quote:
Hi Zoomie, thank you for clearing that up for me, it seems like in order for me to get a handgun for my use in Washington, I will need to buy a handgun here from a FFl dealer and have it shipped to a FFl dealer in Washington, is that correct and that will solve my problem?
Assuming you don't have two residences, no, you're still confused. In order for you to use a handgun in WA, you needed to buy it in MA then travel with it to WA. You're SOL for this trip.
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Old May 7, 2010, 03:23 PM   #7
ArtN
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Non resident

Hi, thanks for your information it has been helpful, I have talked to dealer in Washington State and as you have mentioned Federal Law requires me to purchase in Massachusetts only because I am a resident.

Now I can apply for a non resident CPL (Concealed Pistol License) which I could carry a handgun in Washington, but I still cannot buy a handgun in Washington, but I could borrow someone Else's handgun etc.......I am going to opt to apply for CPL in Washington and borrow handgun for my use while there and when I return to Massachusetts, then I may buy a handgun there for my use while there as well, I do have a LTC in Massachusetts with restriction of target and Hunting, which was only issued to me by the city Chief of Police at his discretion. This Chief of Police only issues LTC permits to Police Officers or retire Police Officers, If I move across the river into another town, it would be available to me....CRAZY!

It is obvious I am a Newbie at this, but it has confused the heck out of me
with every State having it's own set of laws and rules, with the Federal Government with another set of Laws which oversee State Law.

I had finally decided to buy one of three pistols in Massachusetts, went to dealer asked it they had a 24/7 Taurus, a Springfield Armory XDm, or a Glock 23, dealer said he could not sell neither of those to me. WOW! so I asked the question WHY? Dealer showed me a list of available handguns to Massachusetts residents.........There were not many.......No Taurus, No Springfield Armory, No Glock, beyond a particular date, on and on an on.

I mention all this for information if anyone can use it. All you need to do is search it on the internet of course.........
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Old May 7, 2010, 08:26 PM   #8
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The biggest question is why do you spend six months at a time in Washington? The reason may determine that you are actually a resident of Washington during that time.
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Old May 7, 2010, 09:03 PM   #9
wally626
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If all your ID and such is for Mass, then buy the gun in Mass and ship it to yourself in Wash prior to your visit. You can ship (Fedex, UPS) in care of your son, but he has to hold the package unopened. You can travel with the gun to Wash. Or you can borrow a gun from your son while you are in Wash.
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Old May 7, 2010, 10:14 PM   #10
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But do NOT ship it to an FFL in Washington! If you do, they will have to use all the rules to transfer it to you just as if you purchased it from them, including state residency.
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Old May 8, 2010, 07:25 AM   #11
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I agree with Navy Lt...

if you are living in Washington State for 6 months out of the year, you are a resident of washington state during that time... according to the ATF..

now the problem is you can't, as far as I know get two Drivers Licences for the two states, legally. And it is probably easier to just get the non resident CWP.

Now what you 'may' legally be able to do, and this is just my limited opinion, is you could buy a handgun from a Resident of Washington state while you are a resident of that state if this also meets WA. state laws. face to face private sale.
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Old May 8, 2010, 10:35 AM   #12
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As a resident of Washington (and if you live there for 6months, you are a legal resident), you could buy a gun. You are required to provide proof of residence, but it does not have to be a driver's license. There are other means provided for in law for accptable proof of residence.

I see no legal reason why you could not use the "other documents" and purchase the gun from a dealer.

Your son could not "buy a gun for you" as that would be treading on the edge of a "strawman purchase". However, your son could buy a gun for himself, and at a later date, decide to sell it (to you, or any other legal purchaser), or gift it to any person legal to own it. That is entirely within the law.
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Old May 9, 2010, 10:27 AM   #13
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And there is no time restraint on the 'gifting'..

You can buy a brand new spanking gun from an FFL and then turn around and give it to someone that same day.
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Old May 9, 2010, 10:42 PM   #14
ArtN
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Mass and Washington States

Blume357, thank you, are you saying this can be done in Washington State?
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Old May 10, 2010, 05:54 AM   #15
wally626
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Gifting can be done in any state that does not have some explicit law against it. For example; in CA you can gift a handgun but you still need to fill out some paperwork with the state on the transfer. The transaction does need to be a true gift, your son would have to buy the gun and give it to you with no money or other consideration from you. Plus you would have to be a resident of the same state. Washington State does not require a permit to purchase a handgun so you are good to go as far as gifts go.
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Old May 10, 2010, 06:04 AM   #16
blume357
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I don't know what the handgun transfer rules are for those two states

I'm more talking about Federal law.
When you buy a handgun from a dealer / FFL you have to fill out a form that has a goodly number of questions on it. One of the questions is are you buying the gun for yourself and not to sell to someone else.

It's silly, but the feds have decided it is illegal for you to buy the gun and then 'turn around' and sell it to someone else. That's what they call a straw purchase and their reasoning is that folks, usually poor young women, are buying guns for their male criminals who can't. The simple solution would be to make it illegal to either buy, sell, or even give a gun to someone who is 'prohibited'. Oh, wait a minute, they already had that law... so they made another that doesn't solve anything but restricts honest citizens....

Anyway, the feds had to make an exception... like if I want to give my father a new Glock model 19... if we live in (are residence of) the same state and both of us can legally own the gun then I can go to an FFL and buy the Glock and then just give it to my father.

Now if he lived in a different state and the Glock was 'legal' in that state what I also could do is buy the gun from my local dealer and then have them ship it to a FFL in his state and he could come pick it up. He would have to fill out a 4433 (I can't remember the number) form, same form as when you purchase a gun and pay the FFL a transfer fee, usually 25-50 bucks, and the gun would be his. Of course in his 'other' state all the waiting periods and background checks would still have to be done.

I forget some of this because in S.C. I can go down to the FFL and pay for a handgun and come home with it... after filling out the appropriate silly transfer form... no back ground check just show them my appropriate registered with the state card. Is the best and worse thing about having a concealed permit in my state.
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Old May 10, 2010, 06:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
These gun laws are unconstitutional.
Not really. The US Constitution completely allows the federal government to regulate interstate commerce. ...guess what buying a gun in a state other than the one of your residence is?
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Old May 11, 2010, 08:28 AM   #18
blume357
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ArtN:

In my mind the simple thing to do is find out if face to face private sales of guns (handguns) in Washington state are legal... this would be a state law, not federal.

Most states do not have restrictions on sales of handguns or longguns between it's residents. I think places like CA, IL, Mass and NJ do but don't know about any others and could be wrong on the above too... but it should be easy to find out.

I would go to a gun forum specifically dedicated to the state and ask the question there... or maybe someone from WA can answer it here.

It takes a little work and can be just as stressful but legal private sales of handguns are done every day.

I'm not a lawyer and don't even pretend to be one, but I firmly believe according to 'Federal' law you are a resident of WA state while you are living there... 6 months or even a week if you come and go regularly is living there and not visiting, regardless of if you have official documents to back it up.
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Old May 11, 2010, 09:56 AM   #19
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There is no paperwork required, no background check, etc. for private firearms sales between Washington state residents. Cash and carry.
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