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Old May 9, 2010, 04:38 PM   #1
Zero One
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What to do with a pistol during a stop in Illinois?

Hi. I made a previous topic, but my situation changed (I found out that I don't actually need to go to Chicago) and Glenn Meyer advised me to make a new one.

Please do NOT advocate any activity that is even the slightest bit illegal. I'm not going to break the law, and I don't want this thread to get locked thereby preventing someone from posting a good idea.

So, in the next week or so, I'm moving from Texas to Michigan. It's not really a big move, as I've only been in Texas for a few months.

I'm packing up all of my stuff and heading to Michigan. My "stuff" includes one Beretta 92 in my trunk.

Now, I have a free couple of days, and I want to visit family and friends in Illinois while moving. It's on the way from Texas to Michigan, so this will be really convenient and really fun.

Problem is, the Beretta. I know that IL is not a firearm-friendly state. Now, frankly, I really really don't want to drive all the way home to Michigan to deposit it, then 500 miles back to IL, then 500 miles back to Michigan. That's an extra 1,000 miles. On the other hand, I don't wanna miss this opportunity.

I will NOT be going to Chicago - I'm going to be stopping in a nearby town, NOT the city itself. However, this town IS located in Cook County, the same county as Chicago, so I'm not sure if this would mean anything.

So, what can I do, here? The Gun Owners Protection Act won't apply because I'm actually stopping there for three or four days. My only thoughts were shipping it to an FFL in Michigan, but if I can avoid that hassle it would be nice.

I was also wondering if local police (or perhaps some sympathetic police nearby in the state) might have some place where visitors could drop off a pistol and they could take possession of it, then I could pick it up when I leave. Maybe someone in IL or nearby would have experience with this?

Anyone ever run into this problem? Please advise. I'm making this trip soon, so I'd love to get some help ASAP.

Thank you.
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Old May 9, 2010, 07:41 PM   #2
NavyLT
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Keep it unloaded and enclosed in a case and you will be in compliance with Illinois State Law (and a lock on the case will avoid all hassle at all because you can refuse police permission to open the locked case):

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...ation+Card+Act.

(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm, stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:

(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case; (or)
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;


and

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...l+Code+of+1961.

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 96‑41)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state;
or
(ii) are not immediately accessible
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Old May 10, 2010, 01:53 AM   #3
Zero One
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Awesome! This is exactly what I was looking for! I figured that most states usually have a provision for inaccessible, unloaded transport, but I was having difficulty finding it. Thank you, sir. You have my sincere appreciation for resolving this issue. I thank you, my car thanks you, and the ozone layer thanks you for not having 800 miles worth of car exhaust added to it for no good reason.
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Old May 10, 2010, 01:59 AM   #4
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The advice given in the above post will protect you legally for traveling in ALL States. In a nutshell, the firearm must be unloaded and in a case--preferably locked--in a part of the vehicle not easily accessible to the driver while the car is in motion. Ammunition must be stored separately. To keep it even more legal, I would not store the ammunition in loaded magazines, but by itself, preferably in boxes that are packed in their own separate case.
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Old May 10, 2010, 02:52 AM   #5
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Also,just in case you are stopped, wreck, or they decide to search for some reason ... print out a copy of the law with the section numbers, fold it up and put it in the lock box with the pistol ..
Preferably, print it directly from the US govt. website so the little tag line shows at the bottom of the printed page where you got it from. Having a copy of a law with me has saved me hassles with Barney Fife types before.
Also, politeness and "sir" goes a long way.
…. Just my .02
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Old May 10, 2010, 11:26 AM   #6
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Thanks for the useful commentary. I and the OP appreciate it.

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Old May 10, 2010, 11:39 AM   #7
big_bang
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...note the screwy bit in the section NavyLT posted:

You can't buy ammo without a FOID in Illinois...unless you're a non-resident.

I went to go shooting there, and they asked for my FOID at the ammo counter. I said I wasn't a resident and showed an out of state driver's license. I finished the purchase and went on my way.
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Old May 10, 2010, 02:42 PM   #8
NavyLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powderman
Ammunition must be stored separately.
That is NOT a requirement of FOPA, 18 USC 926a. FOPA stipulates that both the gun and the ammo must be separated from the occupants of the vehicle, but not from each other.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...6---A000-.html

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any
person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to
transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he
may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place
where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the
firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible
or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such
transporting vehicle
: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle
without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the
firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container
other than the glove compartment or console
.
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Old May 10, 2010, 03:11 PM   #9
dsa1115
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I live in Illinois and I am familiar with Illinois law in this regard. As I advised you over the weekend, just put your unloaded handgun in a case and keep in in your trunk. This is completely legal in Illinois.
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Old May 10, 2010, 03:51 PM   #10
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IANAL, but I think you should padlock the case (then just put it with your other luggage in your trunk), so if the police find some reason to search your car, they will still need a search warrant to open the gun case.
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Old May 10, 2010, 06:28 PM   #11
NavyLT
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Heck, in Illinois wouldn't they just take the whole case with them and say, "OK, when you decide to let us search it, come on down to the station and we might give it back!"
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Old May 11, 2010, 12:18 AM   #12
44 AMP
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I know it ought to go without saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway, just to be clear.

While visiting your relatives, do not make the gun "accessible" to you, or them. Doing so would remove the protection of the law from you.

In other words, if you don't have the FOID, don't open the case while in IL.

I'm sure you understood that, but just in case you didn't, now you do.
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Old May 11, 2010, 10:32 AM   #13
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44 AMP: My experience is that what you said might not be true. I've traveled to Illinois with firearms and used them in competitions there, along with many other out-of-staters (none of whom had a FOID). I have a hunch that the competition organizers would adress this issue if the exemption wasn't real. As I stated earlier, multiple retailers would also sell ammo to me with an out-of-state driver's license.

The exception lies within the bit of code that NavyLT posted earlier:
(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm, stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:

(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case; (or)
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;

It says "licensed or registered." Right or wrong, I (and others) have taken that to mean "eligible" in cases where licensing or registration is not required in the respective states of residence. Perhaps some would disagree - it's certainly arguable.

Edit: Found this on the Illinois State Police website (http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm)

Quote:
If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt and would like to bring their firearm, how do they legally transport it?
Non- residents must be legally eligible to possess or acquire firearms and ammunition in their state of residence.

Last edited by big_bang; May 11, 2010 at 10:48 AM.
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Old May 11, 2010, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:

(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case; (or)
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;
Am I to take this to mean that Illinois will honor my Indiana Resident CCW permit to carry concealed in their state? According to www.handgunlaw.us , Illinois posesses no reciprocity whatsoever. So where's the rub here?

Poorly written legislation to say the least.

~LT
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Old May 11, 2010, 02:25 PM   #15
big_bang
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Quote:
Am I to take this to mean that Illinois will honor my Indiana Resident CCW permit to carry concealed in their state?
Possession and concealed carry are two entirely different things.
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Old May 11, 2010, 02:37 PM   #16
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What it means is that since Illinois does not recognize your permit, you must carry your gun unloaded and in a case.
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Old May 11, 2010, 06:56 PM   #17
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Well, it appears that you are covered, then. Good Luck. As others have mentioned, having a printed copy of the relevant IL law with you might save you some trouble, should you run across an IL LEO who is not familiar with the exemptions.
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Old May 11, 2010, 09:30 PM   #18
Zero One
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Thank you very much, everyone. You've really helped me out.

I unfortunately do not have access to a printer, but I don't think I'll need it - the chances of being searched are so small that I'm content enough with the security of knowing that the law is on my side.

Looks like now I just have to pull over a little before reaching the IL border and stick it in my trunk.

Thanks again.
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Old May 12, 2010, 07:56 AM   #19
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Truth is if you don't look like a gang banger, dope dealing terrorist,

then you won't have a problem even if you are pulled over. If the LEO wanted to search the vehicle I'd have to decline just out of principle... then again, there you are... they are getting paid by the hour, doesn't matter if they are sitting in their Air Conditioned car waiting for the search warrant or or down at the Krispy Kream.... they clock out the same hours. (Sorry LEO's) At the same time, there you sit on the side of the road.... hopefully not in the sticky and stinky back seat of their car.

if they get to the point where they ask what is in the locked case in the trunk I would tell them, no reason to lie. (I think they can search your vehicle with out a search warrant if they have 'reasonable cause'... is B.S. and unconstitutional but the lawyers and LEOs say it is. I think the worse you agree going to get is an LEO that doesn't know and 99% of them know to call it in and ask someone who does. Just tell them it is legal to carry it that way.
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Old May 12, 2010, 08:39 AM   #20
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I guess im lucky ....since i have a hatchback honda civic....if i were to have a gun not cased in illinois...and noticed a stop would take place...wouldnt take too much time to case the weapon,,and toss it in the very back which would be considered out of reach,,,since I have no trunk.
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Old May 12, 2010, 01:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoRacing
I guess im lucky ....since i have a hatchback honda civic....if i were to have a gun not cased in illinois...and noticed a stop would take place...wouldnt take too much time to case the weapon,,and toss it in the very back which would be considered out of reach,,,since I have no trunk.
Ummm.... yeah.... and the cop sees you doing this through your rear window. I would feel safer myself, by simply complying with the law to begin with.

Well, safer from a prosecution standpoint, not safer from a self defense standpoint.
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Old May 13, 2010, 09:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Well, safer from a prosecution standpoint, not safer from a self defense standpoint.
+1
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Old May 13, 2010, 06:56 PM   #23
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Please note that Cook County still has an AWB with a 10 round limit for magazines. It is not in effect in all of Cook County some cities have an "exemption" (wrong word I know but I'v got to get on the road) so it is not in effect in some cities.

Quote:
Truth is if you don't look like a gang banger, dope dealing terrorist,
then you won't have a problem even if you are pulled over.
You are not from Illinois are you? Cause that is in my experience NOT an accurate statement. I'v lived in Ill for over 30 years now.

Some Ill LEOs are very reasonable, others have told me that they would arrest me if the gun and ammo were in the same compartment of the vehicle (this was AFTER Illinois changed the law to require only that the gun be unloaded and complety enclosed by a case/container made for a gun). When I pointed out to him that the law had changed and showed him a ISP brochur on the new law his response was "I'll arrest you and let the judge sort it out I don't care":barf:

I am not implying that this is typical Ill LEO behavoir but it is not the first or last time I have run into this type of attitude among Ill LEOs

Best wishes

NukemJim
PS if you are really concerned dissasemble the gun prior to going into Ill, only have 10 roung mags with you and ship the Normal Capacity mags to your Mich address or have a friend do it. NJ
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Last edited by NukemJim; May 13, 2010 at 11:08 PM.
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Old May 14, 2010, 10:10 AM   #24
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You will be fine if as other posters have indicated - you keep your gun unloaded and encased and in your trunk. Outside of Chicago/Cook there are no AW provisions in Illinois nor any high capacity magazine bans.

Now if it was soley up to Daley and Chicago - then we would be talking about buying a large tub of vasaline and some loose boxer shorts - but it's not.

Be safe.
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Old May 16, 2010, 02:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
The advice given in the above post will protect you legally for traveling in ALL States. In a nutshell, the firearm must be unloaded and in a case--preferably locked--in a part of the vehicle not easily accessible to the driver while the car is in motion. Ammunition must be stored separately. To keep it even more legal, I would not store the ammunition in loaded magazines, but by itself, preferably in boxes that are packed in their own separate case.
This is the "Peaceable Journey Law." You're legal to move through a state where the gun is unlawful so long as your destination and departure states are lawful for the possession of the firearm.

The gun must be unloaded and stored in the trunk or otherwise in a locked container -- NOT the glovebox or vehicle console.

BUT -- the other stipulation in this "Peaceable Journey Law" is that you must travel directly through the state. NO STOPS. You can stop for meals, restroom, gas, groceries, but you can't "stay over."

So, no "visits."

This seems like a fundamental infringement of RKBA. Nonetheless, it's the law.

NRA has links and some discussion.

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59

Quote:
FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS

A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel.

Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess it to any other place where he may lawfully possess such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, like gasoline and rest, seem permissible.
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