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Old May 8, 2010, 02:00 PM   #1
master111400
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Self-defense and training

I recently got married and am now interested in protecting my wife, myself and my property. I am just wondering if the shooting skills and abilities we already have are adequate. We have three pistols and a shot gun. Mosberg 500 (full stock for hunting) Glock 17, Armscor M200 and last a Paraordinance 1445 My wife prefers a revolver so she will shoot the M200. I prefer the Glock or Para just for portability around the house vs. the shot gun. With the Mosberg, I can put 6 3 inch 1 oz rifled slugs on a quarter sized silhouette at 25 meters with no problem. My wife can do 4 out of 6 very easy. Now with the M200, I can get all 6 shots with slow stead aim on target in about 15-20 seconds. With the Glock, I can hit 10-12 shots on the target every time out of 15 in the mag. They are also slow and aimed but much faster than the M200. With the Para I do not shoot that very much as it is a customized gun and I prefer to shoot it just for fun. More or less that is my fun gun to shoot with friends that prefer a hand cannon. From what I can tell my shooting is fairly decent or above the skills of most of my friends. With that said, I do not go shooting with die hard gun fans and people that shoot daily/weekly. My wife and I try to go shooting a minimum of once a month, weather permitting. I can shoot at an outdoor range free of charge on Saturdays and Sundays. If anyone can answer this question of if this skill is more than good enough for home defense, I will greatly appreciate it.
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Old May 8, 2010, 02:02 PM   #2
SouthCali
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Perfect practice makes Perfect....

IMO, the more practice you get and the more familiarity you have the more comfortable, prepared and confident you are in a situation which would require you to be!

shoot more
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Old May 8, 2010, 06:17 PM   #3
Glenn E. Meyer
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Comprehensive self-defense training includes more than square range shooting skills.

Tactics, legal issues before and after the incident, avoidance, disengagement, stress innoculation, etc.

So, practicing with the static basics are good but not the total package.
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Old May 8, 2010, 11:12 PM   #4
master111400
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That is very true. I am in the military, not infantry but combat series. I do have plenty of rifle and machine gun training but very little to none handgun/pistol training. The legal aspect of it I am not worried about. I will not be carrying due to the fact that there are to many restrictions in my area. I only plan to defend my home and family.
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Old May 9, 2010, 03:32 AM   #5
T. O'Heir
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Think paragraphs.
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Old May 9, 2010, 07:35 AM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
If anyone can answer this question of if this skill is more than good enough for home defense, I will greatly appreciate it.
Anyone who could give you a good answer would have to be clairvoyant and a mind reader since they would need to know much more information than you posted AND be able to know what type of threat you would eventually face if a home defense situation did come up.

On the one hand, there are tens of thousands of Americans who have been successful in protecting their home and families with this level of experience or less.

On the other hand, a formal training class at a Gunsite like course will make it pretty clear that there are many considerations in self-defense that aren't addressed by this level of training. Considering how much of self-defense is not about shooting at all though, it sounds like you need some more emphasis on those areas.
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Old May 9, 2010, 08:20 AM   #7
OldMarksman
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Quote:
I recently got married and am now interested in protecting my wife, myself and my property.
Read and heed Glenn E. Meyer's post about comprehensive training that includes the legal aspects. Using deadly force to protect property is not appropriate in most jurisdictions.

Quote:
I am just wondering if the shooting skills and abilities we already have are adequate. ... With the Mosberg, I can put 6 3 inch 1 oz rifled slugs on a quarter sized silhouette at 25 meters...with the M200, I can get all 6 shots with slow stead aim on target in about 15-20 seconds. With the Glock, I can hit 10-12 shots on the target every time out of 15 in the mag. They are also slow and aimed but much faster than the M200. .... If anyone can answer this question of if this skill is more than good enough for home defense, I will greatly appreciate it.
Consider this: I just completed a defensive shooting class. All exercises but one involved shooting at steel torso sized plates at seven yards. There were many repetitions involving rapidly shooting two shots at each of three targets in very rapid succession--say, in less than two seconds for the six shots.

Why? An incident will likely unfold in the blink of an eye, the threat may well be moving very fast indeed, and you may be out numbered.

The training in which I participated was probably more suited to outdoor scenarios, but unless you have a living room that is rather long, and unless you are for some reason highly confident that your threat will lack either decisiveness or survival instincts or both and that he (or they) will elect to hesitate before endangering you and to subsequently to stand rather still while you shoot, I do not think that you should stop with practicing slow aimed fire at a distant target.

Look to see what's available in or near your area. Remember that, as Bartholomew Roberts put it, much of self defense is not about shooting at all.
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Old May 9, 2010, 04:24 PM   #8
raimius
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There are essential skills to have.

Some of them include...
Being able to hit the target. (This is what "square range" practice is good for.)

Knowing when to fire. (Preferably so you don't end up with 25 to life...)

Being able to do the above quickly and decisively. (That is where training and practice comes in, and square ranges tend to be less useful.)
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Old May 9, 2010, 05:42 PM   #9
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
Comprehensive self-defense training includes more than square range shooting skills.

Tactics, legal issues before and after the incident, avoidance, disengagement, stress innoculation, etc.

master111400,

Start with LFI-1 by Massad Ayoob. Then maybe a good shooting school and some H2H such as Krav Maga.
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Old May 9, 2010, 06:09 PM   #10
bensdad
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Reading the responses I feel that these mostly address your training and use of the gun but I would like to know and have you think of the environment that you are living in.
It appears that you are obviously a person trained in shooting your guns, and assume your wife is too, I think your need may be towards the things that people forget.
The layout of you home and furniture, lighting in the house, alarms, exit places and strategies(just in case), what would attract a person to your home (kids, wife, nice cars, big parties where people bring guests to your home???), is the garage door open if you own a house, landscaping ( tall shrubs by the doors or windows), neighborhood watch available, are there older residents that like to keep an eye on everything (which may be annoying but helpful), what is the traffic like in the neighborhood. How safe is your front and back door, safe zones, placement of guns (on person, in drawers or closets??) etc etc. What does your house look like at night or in the day, is there a dog that may need to be brought into the home for safety and burglar avoidance, are you on a routine schedule???

I am sure some of these things, maybe all of them, you have already thought of or taken care of, but there does not always seem enough advise or questions given towards the actual environment that the person is living in.

I have and always am going through my house in my mind or when I get there of things I need to change or that make me notice where a person might come in or wait for me or my family. It makes me feel better and also my wife likes the idea of having a strategy in case of something happening.

Hope these questions may raise some things you have not thought of or if you have that this will bring peace of mind that your home is been made somewhat safer.
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Old May 9, 2010, 06:31 PM   #11
2guns
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self defense/home defense shooting

Glen E. Meyer nailed it.
And I think his qualifications speak for themselves.
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Old May 10, 2010, 02:23 AM   #12
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If I may add something...

You really should consider setting up an appointment to talk with someone concerning the laws in your State and jurisdiction concerning deadly force. And, that someone ideally will be your local prosecutor. This is the person you're going to be getting up close and personal with in the event--God forbid--you have to use a firearm against another human being.

I also highly recommend getting a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. Lots of folks can talk to you about what happens up to and including the shooting. Massad talks about that--and what happens AFTER the shooting.
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Old May 10, 2010, 07:40 AM   #13
Dwight55
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I find most non-military trained folks (and too many military trained folks as well), . . . just do not take time to physically walk through what would be the most obvious 2, 3, or 4 HD scenarios they could be involved in.

For example, . . . my worst fear (and MOST likely HD scenario) is coming home to a bg already in the house. For that reason alone, . . . I try never to allow myself to leave the premises without a weapon. I have walked through, and have a "check list" of what I expect to see should that occur. I also have a PRE-planned response to that scenario.

My next worst fear: home invasion at night during sleeping hours. I have several layers of protection against having to wake up, get up, get gun, orient, assess, and act. I also have PRE-planned responses to that (depending on which door the invader breaches).

Last but not least: daylight "salesman" robber or burglar, . . . casing the place or looking for crime of opportunity. Again, PRE-planned response is the key.

I have 2 "hunker down" spots in my house, . . . one planned, . . . one accidentally fell into that description. Either one will provide cover and protection for a full 270 degrees against up to a .308. Both provide concealment up to the point where I would open fire, . . . one allows me to cover only the bedroom entrance and the main front door, . . . the other gives me good fields of fire against any of the 3 doors, . . . and puts the bg into a shooting tunnel should he enter.

PRE-planning, . . . walk throughs, . . . sighting down the shooting lanes, . . . determining what (if anything at all) in your house is cover, . . . what is concealment, . . . where the wife will hunker: all these need to be addressed. It is up to you to determine what level you feel is adequate.

May God bless,
Dwight
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