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Old May 4, 2010, 08:44 PM   #1
jerryv
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powder volume grains to weight grains?

well i have my 2 gift 1858 revolvers, 1 brass the other steel, ready to shoot and have balls, caps and pyrodex p powder. im told that pyrodex is measured by volume. i have scales. if someone can tell me what say 30 grains volume of this powder is on the scale i can go from there. hodgdon shows 37 grains for .44 cal am i right to go no higher than 25 in the brass gun? thanks jerry
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Old May 4, 2010, 09:03 PM   #2
simonkenton
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If I had any Pyrodex I would weigh some up for you.

Since you have 2 revolvers, why don't you go ahead and buy a brass powder measure. You need one.
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Old May 4, 2010, 09:27 PM   #3
mykeal
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1 grain volume of Pyrodex RS weighs 0.78 gr weight.
1 grain weight of Pyrodex RS occupies 1.28 gr volume.
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Old May 4, 2010, 09:27 PM   #4
zippy13
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Check out the LEE site, their dipper chart is a reasonable reference for converting various powders by volume.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data...ct/Dippers.pdf
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Old May 5, 2010, 05:45 AM   #5
mykeal
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The chart only has Pyrodex Cartridge powder. And Lee's numbers are 'dipper sizes', not grains by volume.
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Old May 5, 2010, 11:13 AM   #6
zippy13
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Quote:
The chart only has Pyrodex Cartridge powder. And Lee's numbers are 'dipper sizes', not grains by volume.
I beg to differ...
LEE's dipper sizes claim to be in cc's. Look down the column for the #1 dipper and you get a good feeling for grains weight per cc volume. Granted, they didn't do a very good job of alphabetizing, PYRODEX CTG is not listed with H-PYRDX RS and H-PYRODX P.

For my own use, I clipped the chart down to something easier to read for BP:
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Old May 5, 2010, 04:38 PM   #7
jerryv
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so by this chart if i take a serynge? and put pyrodex p in it to the 2 cc mark it would be equal to 24.20 grains volume?
ill buy a powder measure when i find one or order from midway again. right now i would like to find a starting load for the p powder in wt. to try out the guns.

i
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Old May 5, 2010, 10:40 PM   #8
mykeal
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Ok, so Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex P are included...

But, what does it mean? Lee's 'dipper sizes' are cubic centimeters, so the numbers in the table must be weight in grains, correct? How does one get volume in grains from the table? That's what the OP wants. I don't see how the table answers the question about converting from weight to volume.

I think the '1 grain volume of Pyrodex P weighs 0.78 grains' conversion is pretty straightforward and easy to use.

Quote:
so by this chart if i take a serynge? and put pyrodex p in it to the 2 cc mark it would be equal to 24.20 grains volume?
Nope. Not if I understand the table. It would be 24.2 grains weight, which by the 1:0.78 factor would be 31 grains by volume (24.2/0.78 = 31).
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Old May 6, 2010, 12:08 AM   #9
zippy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykeal
Nope. Not if I understand the table. It would be 24.2 grains weight, which by the 1:0.78 factor would be 31 grains by volume (24.2/0.78 = 31).
That's the way I read the chart. Since LEE doesn't show a 2.0 on the chart, I Used the 4.0 and divided by 2. Granted the numbers are a pinch off form a linear interpolation between the 1.9 and 2.2 dippers, it's close enough. If I understand the table correctly, if I'm given a load recipe that calls for 35 grains of FFFG BP, to substitute with Pyrodex-P I can use a 2.2 dipper or weigh out 26.7 gr.
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Old May 6, 2010, 06:04 AM   #10
B.L.E.
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When the makers of Pyrodex say "use 30 grains" they don't mean it literally by weight, they mean use a measure that would throw 30 grains of black powder.

If you are using Lee dippers, go by the black powder column, otherwise it is the same as going by weight.

There would be a lot less confusion if black powder measures were calibrated in cubic centimeters instead of grains and loads for muzzleloaders were given in cubic centimeters.
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Old May 6, 2010, 10:01 PM   #11
jerryv
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i have the lee manual and black powder and subs are listed along with other powder. a friend has a set of lee dippers and it has cc by each dipper size on the box. i used the dipper to dump powder into a syringe and the measure is the same.
by the chart 1 cc dipper of pyrodex p= 12.1 grains volume. if i take a 12 cc syringe and fill with pyrodex p i will have 6 loads = to 24.2 grains each for use in my brass gun? 2 1/2 cc = 30.4 volume so a syringe with 15 cc in it will load six shots at 30.4 for my steel gun?
the syringe is now my powder measure, funnel and powder dumper. i just mark the syringe with marker to make it easy to see where each load starts and ends?
what do you think?
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Old May 6, 2010, 10:25 PM   #12
arcticap
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Most every cartridge case holds a standardized volume of water that is expressed in both ML's and grains of H2O.
The number of grains of H2O is almost exactly equal to the volumetric grains of black powder within a miniscule amount.
And most cartridge case capacities are listed in Wikipedia or are easy to find by simply Googling the caliber and/or name of the cartridge.

For example, for 9mm Wikipedia states:

Quote:
The 9x19mm Parabellum has 0.86 ml (13.3 grains H2O) cartridge case capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum
That means that an empty 9mm cartridge case will hold 13.3 grains of black powder by volume.
And two 9mm case fulls are equal to 26.6 grains of black powder.
A person can find an empty 9mm cartridge case at just about any shooting range and measure out just a fraction less powder than a full case to obtain ~25 grains of powder by volume.
Collect a few common cartridge cases and learn their capacities in grains of water and it's easier to measure out some common or useful powder loads by volume.
Attach a wire to the case with epoxy and you have a scoop.

Last edited by arcticap; May 6, 2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Old May 6, 2010, 11:12 PM   #13
mykeal
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I think using any container that holds more than a single charge of propellant to charge a chamber or barrel is taking an unnecessary risk of being injured by an unexpected detonation. Using your syringe is no different than loading directly from a flask. Why expose any more powder to a possible burning ember than you absolutely have to?
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Old May 6, 2010, 11:26 PM   #14
arcticap
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At least by using Pyrodex it's not explosive when it's not contained.
I've loaded and ignited Pyrodex in a barrel without a ball and I could hardly tell it was going off when it's not contained.
All one would need to do is to wait a number of seconds from the time that the last shot was fired before reloading, very similar to being just like with a misfire.
That's just standard practice that everyone should be made aware of and reminded about.
But by the time that he puts his gun down and he reloads his syringe the time limit would be up.
Wear eye protection and remember that the syringe is an open volume of Pryodex and not a closed container of black powder.

Last edited by arcticap; May 7, 2010 at 03:39 PM.
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Old May 7, 2010, 01:05 AM   #15
Model-P
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I thought this was setled before, that the volume measurement was based on the weight of water for that volume

Also, why do I never hear the shieks about not using plastic with BP whenever the Lee dippers are mentioned
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Old May 7, 2010, 02:31 AM   #16
zippy13
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jerryv,

Since I'm clumsy and don't like to spill powder, I make my powder dippers with a little modification: I use a longer case (like a .45 LC) and cut it partially. With the left over brass, I form a funnel and then solder another case on as a handle. Similar to your method, I use a syringe to determine the new dippers's capacity in cc's and then stamp the number in the funnel section.
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Old May 7, 2010, 03:45 PM   #17
arcticap
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Here's a handy group of charts including one which gives the conversion for grains of BP & substitutes to CC's.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model-P
Also, why do I never hear the shieks about not using plastic with BP whenever the Lee dippers are mentioned
Maybe it's because plastic dippers aren't considered to be a hazard. Static electricity alone doesn't appear to be able to ignite BP and most BP is coated with graphite to help it resist static ignition. Some flasks are even made from plastic.
Are using plastic dippers something that folks should be shrieking about?

Last edited by arcticap; May 8, 2010 at 12:37 AM.
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Old May 7, 2010, 04:17 PM   #18
Model-P
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Quote:
Are using plastic dippers something that folks should be shrieking about?
I don't know?

It just struck me odd that for all the recoiling, fingers making the sign of the cross, "plastic with BP is anathema" folks around that I have never, ever heard any of them say the same thing about the little plastic dippers. I agree that it probably isn't a problem, but the consistent silence is interesting and seems a little hypocritical in a way. Just wondering is all.
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