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Old May 1, 2010, 01:02 PM   #1
kreiderm
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Inertia vs gas operated

I have read alot of good things about the Beretta and the Benelli auto. Which design is better: the Beretta Gas System or the Benelli inertia system. The engineer in me thinks the recoil dampning should be equal since both are doing the same amount of work with the recoil energy. The inertia system has to be cleaner. What say you.
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Old May 1, 2010, 04:11 PM   #2
Technosavant
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From what I've read, the felt recoil of the inertia driven is quite a bit more than the gas-op. While it isn't quite a pump gun or break action (with no recoil absorption at all), it is going to hit the shooter harder. Inertia is also going to cycle a bit more quickly, and yes, there's no gas system to clean.

Still, I think the cleanliness aspect is not that big a deal- I can't imagine a situation where you'd be putting hundreds upon hundreds of rounds through a shotgun without being able to strip it down and wipe the worst of the crud out of the gas system.
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Old May 1, 2010, 05:53 PM   #3
oneounceload
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Quote:
Still, I think the cleanliness aspect is not that big a deal- I can't imagine a situation where you'd be putting hundreds upon hundreds of rounds through a shotgun without being able to strip it down and wipe the worst of the crud out of the gas system.
Those of us who shoot targets will do exactly that - put hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it in a single day

If the weight of the guns are the same and the ammo is as well, the actual recoil will be the same. However, the felt, or perceived, recoil will not. The gas gun spreads the recoil pulse over a longer period, making it feel softer. Perception becomes reality when you need that second quick shot.

There have been discussions here and elsewhere about the Benelli's ability to digest light target loads. The consensus of most of the opinions offered, based on those authors' experiences, seem to suggest the Benelli has a hard time with light, soft loads while the gas gun does not.

BigJimP has more experience with Benellis. Perhaps he'll chime in
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Old May 1, 2010, 06:45 PM   #4
jmr40
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I've had both and will not say either is better. They are both probably the 2 best semi-auto designs currently being made. It just comes down to which design features are more important to you.

The Beretta is heavier and the gas system does soften the recoil. The Benelli is lighter and does have more recoil. This can be lessened some with the high tech recoil pads available.

I sold my Beretta after getting my first Benelli. Not that I think it was less of a gun, but just because the Benelli fit my needs better. I ended up walking 9 miles last Saturday turkey hunting and never fired a shot. If I had, it would have only been 1 shot. I appreciate the lighter weight and can live with slightly more recoil to get the weight reduction.

While they are probably equally reliable if kept reasonably clean I feel the Benelli will probably be more reliable if abused and not kept as clean. I know it is much easier to clean because of it's simple design.

If I shot a lot of clays and hunted less I would go for the softer shooting Beretta. Hard to make a bad decision either way.

My 2 Benelli's have never had the first problem with even the cheapest Walmart special loads. If using some very light handloads it may choke, but I've never had any problems.
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Old May 1, 2010, 08:23 PM   #5
PJR
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If you are a hunter who shoots clays get the Benelli.

If you are a clay shooter who hunts get the Beretta.
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Old May 2, 2010, 03:30 AM   #6
Waterengineer
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Inertia if........

Well stated One Oz.

To the OP, the inertia system is not "cleaner" per se, but it is certainly easier to clean.

Also, since you are an engineer you can appreciate: a) reliability and b) simplicity of design.

Huge reliability with my Benellis. Everytime I step to the line they go bang - with no questions.

The correct answer is inertia if you want an easy to teardown, clean and reassemble gun, more than I can say for my gas guns.

Also as an engineer you can appreciate there is much more going on between actual recoil and percieved recoil due to: a) moment, b) mass, c) impulse-momentum, d) coefficient of elastisity and e) geometric configuration, to name a few.

If you want to take it to the side in a PM we can have as much technical conversation as you want without boring those about us with our engineering talk.

At the end of the day - buy the gun that fits for the intended purpose and enjoy it.

My problem is prying the Benelli away from my daughter. Long time posters here know what I am talking about........

Last edited by Waterengineer; May 2, 2010 at 03:32 AM. Reason: additional info
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Old May 2, 2010, 04:58 AM   #7
zippy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreiderm
The engineer in me thinks the recoil dampning should be equal since both are doing the same amount of work with the recoil energy.
Not necessarily. With all due respect to the engineers out there, you may not considered an important element when evaluating kick, or perceived recoil: You seem to have neglected time. If an equal amount of energy is transferred to the shooter over a longer period, the maximum unit stresses are reduced and the kick is less. Typically, gas guns have a longer event than inertia guns.
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Old May 2, 2010, 08:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Those of us who shoot targets will do exactly that - put hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it in a single day
I never said otherwise. The operant part of my statement was in regards to having time to give it a quick cleaning. It takes all of a couple minutes to pull the barrel, boresnake it, and wipe down the piston (on my Rem 105 CTi II). I'll admit I haven't shot any skeet tournaments, but at some point I'd expect to have the time to take a breather, use the can, and wipe it down.

I just cleaned my shotgun after about 250 or so rounds through it over 3-4 weeks (was out of town for a week), and it still hadn't malfunctioned. After going over it, there wasn't so much grime in there that I couldn't have gone to 500 or more, I just prefer to keep mine running clean.

But if I were shooting a tournament, I'd probably take the lunch break to go over it just out of principle.
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Old May 2, 2010, 08:24 AM   #9
noyes
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Buy for fit , both are good.

Biggest Difference i.m.o.
gas operated action you can add a magizine extention.
inertia driven cannot add magazine extention




.

Last edited by noyes; May 2, 2010 at 08:42 AM.
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Old May 2, 2010, 09:33 AM   #10
NoSecondBest
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Quote:
Biggest Difference i.m.o.
gas operated action you can add a magizine extention.
inertia driven cannot add magazine extention
There's a lot of tactical shooters who use Benelli's with mag extensions. Lots of them. The Super90 is inertia and it was 'the' gun to get for this type of shooting. I watched Tom Knapp do an exhibition shoot and he had extensions on most of the guns he used and they were all inertia back then.
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Old May 2, 2010, 01:23 PM   #11
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In my opinion - I like the Benelli inertia system better than the Beretta gas system - but they are both good systems.

I have Benelli Super Sport models - in 12 and 20ga / and that gun comes with Benelli's Comfort Tech system in it ( where the chevrons in the stock compress as part of the recoil absorption system ) ...and this model also has the soft comb and the gel recoil pad. All of that adds up to a soft shooting gun, in my opinion ( but I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs too ...) but even my grandkids / some of the girls at 13 are 5' 10" and 100 lbs soaking wet ...and they seem to be able to handle the 20ga Super Sport very well as far as recoil / and its lightness lets them swing it fluidly since their upper body strength isn't really there yet ....but all the kids like the Benelli a lot. My older grandson started shooting my 12ga Super Sport when he was about 15 - and had no issues with it. I had an older Beretta 390 12ga as well ...and he reached for the Super Sport every time ... but part of that may be the carbon fibre / stainless ..cool factor too ...

The Benelli does cycle quicker than the Beretta gas guns / but there are advances in some of the gas guns out there too.

I don't think there is any doubt - the Benelli shoots way cleaner than any of the gas guns. After 150 - 300 shells, the Benelli is barely dirty ....and a gas gun, while it will still cycle, takes more time to really clean it. Now I full strip my Benelli every time I shoot it ( barrel, receiver, trigger group, etc ) but its a quick 15 min process / and the gun is back in battery. A gas gun takes me at least 30 min to really clean it.

I shoot my Super Sport in the field / and in clays ... and I don't think I've ever put more than 300 shells thru it in a day ...but it never came close to having a problem. I did loan it to a young fella to shoot last weekend / and he was shooting some cheap Estate loads in it ...and it was pretty dirty after 200 shells ....but his dad, shoots a Beretta, and he was amazed how fast I showed his son how I clean that gun / strip it all apart / put it back together.
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Old May 2, 2010, 02:57 PM   #12
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And to add one other thing. While technically the inertia system does recoil more, I feel the concern is a little over stressed. I also own pump actions and doubles. Most of the serious competition shooters use over/unders and the Benelli will still have less felt recoil than a comparable double or pump.
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Old May 2, 2010, 03:36 PM   #13
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There are some really good responses to this one already. I will say that I like the Benelli better since it seems 'sleeker' to me...but of course that is just personal preference.

About the recoil: the gas system in the Beretta will recoil less (at least in terms of percieved recoil), but with the ComforTech system and the nice shooting vest (with recoil pad insert ), I can shoot my Benelli all day long.
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Old May 2, 2010, 04:00 PM   #14
SouthCali
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I absolutely LOVE the Benelli

Attached (since i cant figure out how to just make the pic show up) are my Two.

The Camo has NEVER been fired (and may not) but the black is put to work.

Waited OVER a YEAR for the M4 Camo!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Photo on 2010-05-02 at 13.52.jpg (106.3 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg Photo on 2010-05-02 at 13.54.jpg (113.0 KB, 69 views)
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Old May 2, 2010, 10:41 PM   #15
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>>While technically the inertia system does recoil more, I feel the concern is a little over stressed<<

And usually by those who have not actually fired one. I have two Benelli autos I use exclusively for clay shooting, and the recoil is no worse than an O/U. So, if you're "recoil sensitive" get yourself a gas gun.
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Old May 3, 2010, 07:24 AM   #16
LanceOregon
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I've fired a couple of Benellis, including even a SuperSport. And they both had worse recoil that my Berettas in my opinon.

Claims that Benelli shotguns cycle faster are also totally bogus and without proof.

In reality, just about any decent semi-auto shotgun, including even a Browning Auto 5, is going to cycle faster than 99% of shooters will be able to take advantage of.

All the marketing hype one hears from each of the shotgun vendors claiming that their autoloading shotgun is the fastest should be taken with more than just a grain of salt.

Last I heard Winchester was still claiming that the Super X3 was the fastest:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/librar...ail.asp?id=215


Regarding ease of cleaning, the Beretta 391 Urika II, the new Browning Maxus, and that insane new polymer semiauto shotgun Beretta A400 Xplor Unico, all claim significant improvements in the gas piston design that make cleaning a lot easier.

I've not used or even handled any of these new shotguns, though, so I have no first hand knowledge if these claims really amount to much of a difference or not.

The performance claims that Beretta is making about the polymer A400 Xplor Unico are really quite amazing. I've accepted shooting polymer pistols, but I doubt that I could get used to a shotgun that uses so much polymer. That is just too nontraditional for my tastes.

The shotgun only weighs 6 1/2 lbs. And Beretta claims that not only can it reliably cycle everything from light 7/8 oz 2 3/4 target loads to heavy 2 1/4 oz 3 1/2 inch magnum loads, but that it will shoot them all with very little felt recoil.




Quite amazing claims they are making for this shotgun here:

http://www.a400xplor.com/

.
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Old May 3, 2010, 09:34 AM   #17
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Lance - I shoot with someone who bought the new Xplor. For a 6.5# 12 gauge field gun, the recoil using standard 1oz Kemen target loads is minimal. Whatever they have done, it seems to do the job - at least with those loads. Firing it, I was expecting more recoil than what was delivered. Don't know what might happen with Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 1-1/4 oz loads, but if it works like it did with target loads, it should be light. They're supposed to bring out the target model sometime this year. If they add a pound and keep the recoil system, it might even tempt me to give a semi a serious look-see.
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Old May 3, 2010, 11:04 AM   #18
BigJimP
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Aw come on guys ....the new Beretta Xplor ...is so ugly... it even makes the Benelli Super Sport look good ...and we know its at least homely ....( but I'll still take a Super Sport hands down ).

http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/sil...sport_comb.jpg

----------------------------------

but poly handguns .....you can't go down that path !! ..Its Tupperware ... ( 1911's, made from steel, rule ! ).
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Old May 3, 2010, 11:04 AM   #19
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The Benelli recoil does not bother me.
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Old May 3, 2010, 11:37 AM   #20
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Someone at Beretta wasn't doing their homework. Quite a few comp shooters use the forearm ridge as a reference point to position the index finger to point at the target (Check out the shooter in the Winchester link provided by LanceOregon). It's something I picked-up watching NSSA world champ Alan Clark many years ago. Having the forearm ridge at an angle from the bore is a major negative point with the A4300 Xplor Unico. I agree with my friend, BigJimP, it's also the front runner in the ugly dog contest, but his Benelli is still in the running.

Last edited by zippy13; May 3, 2010 at 12:35 PM.
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Old May 3, 2010, 12:00 PM   #21
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There's no doubt that inertia or recoil operated kick a little harder. In years past I would say that recoil operated guns (browning A-5, Rem. 11-48) were more reliable than their gas counterparts. These days I beleive the beretta is just as reliable as the Benelli with less recoil.
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Old May 3, 2010, 12:01 PM   #22
oneounceload
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Now Zippy - "form follows function", and while not every Italian designer is a
Pininfarina, they usually follow that tenet. Remember, this is the field version. I'll be interested to see what the target version looks like
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Old May 3, 2010, 12:38 PM   #23
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1-oz, my friend, the pointer forearm grip works great for birds, too.
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Old May 3, 2010, 01:51 PM   #24
oneounceload
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OK, someone had too much Chianti at lunch that day.....

Actually, though, it really didn't feel too awkward when I shot it - amazing how light and fast it is
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Old May 3, 2010, 08:29 PM   #25
jrothWA
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Wow! alot of info, makes....

me glad I just got a 1970 edition 12ga Mag A5.

Alway wondered why the used rack @ cabelas was overloaded with Benelli's & Berrette's and the listed A5's show honest work character.
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