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Old May 1, 2010, 10:03 PM   #26
ClayInTx
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Rantingredneck,

Your point is well taken.

Don’t sweat the small... er, “stuff”.

Clay
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Old May 2, 2010, 07:30 AM   #27
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As the economy gets worse,crooks are going to take whatever advantage they can.

The OP was pointing out a scenario that is very likely to become another ploy in a thieves bag of tricks,and I for one will try to be more vigilant at a time when I find myself getting distracted.
Thanks rantingredneck.
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Old May 2, 2010, 09:28 AM   #28
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My personal take on this is nothing was going to happen. I think many things were "possible". He could have a knife, He might want my wifes purse. He was putting some thing in his pocket. He could try a cut and run. Way way to many "possibles" for me to give it another thought. You can make anyone into a possible threat if you want to. My take on it was a bit of paranoia just like you said in the OP.
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Old May 2, 2010, 09:31 AM   #29
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I avoid the self checkout anyway. Until they put a discount for self checkout (must be at least 1%), they're just going to have to be burdened with paying someone minimum wage to total my order and take my money.

Another reason to avoid the self checkout, I recently read another thread, either here, or THR (don't remember), where someone was arrested for theft, for scanning a coupon twice at the self checkout. The victim was legally CCW, and had his gun confiscated, on the grounds that he was carrying it during the commission of a crime. Total BS. Avoid the self checkout.
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Old May 2, 2010, 11:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
My personal take on this is nothing was going to happen. I think many things were "possible". He could have a knife, He might want my wifes purse. He was putting some thing in his pocket. He could try a cut and run. Way way to many "possibles" for me to give it another thought. You can make anyone into a possible threat if you want to. My take on it was a bit of paranoia just like you said in the OP.
Entirely true. Still does not negate the downside of acting as your own cashier and allowing the work to distract you from your surroundings.
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Old May 2, 2010, 09:12 PM   #31
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I work at a K-mart in the midwest. People steal crud all the time but there hasnt been any blatant robberies. The guy probably saw you observing him and thought, "He thinks im about to do somethin" so he smiled at you and left. No intelligent person would do a strong arm robbery at a store like that, there's cameras everywhere inside and outside the store.


What we're told is if someone is stealing stuff tell them to stop and bring it back but even the loss prevention officer can't physicly touch them if they decide to run away - And he openly carries a big fourty-five. I can tell you that if i saw someone actually get robbed, or threatened with a weapon i'd physicly help them. Screw the minimum wage job.
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Old May 2, 2010, 11:50 PM   #32
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Actually, rantingredneck, your experience here suggests two things to me:

1) If you're *alone*, might be better to use a traditional checkout line.

2) If you want to do a self checkout, take somebody who can stand watch in with you.

I don't seem to shop often at places that offer self checkout, or I'd ask my husband to come in with me. He gets bored shopping, so I usually have him drop me off and then go read a book at the local Starbucks or somesuch til I call him when I'm in the checkout line.
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Old May 3, 2010, 04:15 AM   #33
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i read this on carolina shooters forums and must say that the guy was probably up to no good
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Old May 3, 2010, 10:14 AM   #34
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Really good thread

I think there is alot to learn on this thread.

The first is a VERY good point about awareness. I use a self-checkout rather often at the grocery store. Admittedly, I have been paying more attention to the machine than my surroundings. I appreciate the story as a chance to improve my own observation technique.

Secondly, DoubleNaughtSpy (which is one of the best names!) and the OP are providing a fine example of how things can be perceived differently. I would like to lean more toward the shoplifting or flirting theory based on statistical odds. However, I would not rule out the purse snatching theory.

Thirdly, I am surprised by how tactically minded people are about things. I am notorious for over-thinking things but I think in the hypothetical situation of a purse snatching crime, you guys are forgetting a few basic elements.

It is called a "purse-snatching" because that is the action. An often u suspecting person has their item QUICKLY stolen. Purse straps will break easily if pulled. More times than not (I would guess) the purse is just pulled hard and the victim lets go of it. If the criminal is carrying a knife it is probably to threaten the victim into letting go of it. In the time requires to cut one strap (which is all you probably need) More time as passed and the chances of being caught increase. The knife (or other weapon) IMHO is better suited for "convincing" a victim to release their purse or to keep others from stopping the incident.

Depending on the "type of look" the suspect gave you, it would best indicate his intentions. It can be difficult to tell. The only thing for certain is that I would rather be safe than sorry about it.
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Old May 3, 2010, 04:02 PM   #35
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the guy zigged toward my wife and then zagged away from her when he saw me.
The problem I have in public places like this, guys hit up on my wife. One right in front of me like I wasnt there. Happens with the really good lookers like mine is. I just smile and grab her hand as we walk away.

Yep in Council Bluffs there are reciept checkers and during real busy times a police officer in full uniform. Must be regional? Not sure as I have seen the same in a few wally marts in the mid west.

Glad nothing happened, I also hate those self check lanes, a waste of time cause not many use them.
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Old May 4, 2010, 06:08 AM   #36
ClayInTx
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After reading through the thread I see that we have only two choices:

1. Carry a gun.
or
2. Have an ugly wife.
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Old May 4, 2010, 01:57 PM   #37
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Walmart Greeters

I would like to see the walmart greeters try to stop a fly from getting in or out of the building. They are not meant to be security guards and most of them are older men or women (not descriminating, just stating a fact).
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Old May 6, 2010, 01:52 AM   #38
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what about?

Could this guy have been trying to snatch the card??????

Makes sense to me.
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Old May 6, 2010, 09:36 AM   #39
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Well, we can’t give the guy much credit for trying to swipe the card although it appears he had pre-approved his attempt and was in the groove to the limit in his interest to get it but he would have to pay later for the crime.
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Old May 6, 2010, 10:21 AM   #40
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From everything you have included and described, I'm just glad you
were there. Who's to say he was just thinking about or scouting out
an easy purse or card or a bag of free food.

What if he was going to cozy up and chat and establish repoire,then
follow her and rape her after forcing her into her car and going to a
private location, then killing the child and burning the car and going to
get chinese food takeout with his buddies..

Walmart has little to do with anything here.

Guys, be with your better half and/or kids when out if possible.

There are bad people and these are so so times.
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Old May 6, 2010, 03:41 PM   #41
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I don't possess a criminal mind, but a walmart shopping center aisle complete with dozens of witnesses, half dozen security cameras, and an egress that involved two layers of doors and multiple potential obstacles would not be my first choice.

He probably thought your wife was cute and wanted to say hi -until he saw you.
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Old May 8, 2010, 05:15 AM   #42
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fairer sex

There was a time when women were referred to as the "fairer sex", proper ladies did not travel alone, and their gentleman escorts (some anyhow) were skilled and armed, and it was little trouble to do so. All that is mostly gone.

KingE is on the right track.
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Old May 10, 2010, 11:34 AM   #43
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good lookers

My girl might be ugly, but she can cook.
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Old May 10, 2010, 12:41 PM   #44
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yeah, her purse would have been gone, unless you are real fast.. I know nobody is going to stop me unless they can think fast enough and are good enough to tackle me, a weak arm tackle ain't gonna work. those self checkout lines end up taking more time for me b/c something always goes wrong and i have to wait for the clerk to fix it.
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Old May 10, 2010, 09:58 PM   #45
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I can't see for the life of me how this thread is even remotely related to tactics and training. Getting mugged at a self-checkout line in the middle of a Walmart? Come on now. If you get mugged in a Walmart, then that has to be the dumbest or craziest thief in the world with all those people and cameras everywhere. How is this related to weapons? The last thread was about the guy in Walmart not being allowed to take his weapon in there open-carry.

Something is up with this thread. It is not very realistic...even if you did get mugged in Walmart at the self-checkout line then its not appropriate to pull your pistol.

Is Capt Charlie going to come to the rescue here?
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Old May 10, 2010, 11:25 PM   #46
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Not mugged, JohnH1963. But having a wallet, purse or backpack snatched is quite possible. Granted, I wouldn't consider that sort of crime to justify use of a gun in defense, but it's part of the picture of the types of crimes I (at least) would want to think about. And if the perp pulled a knife or gun, I'd want to be prepared.

I definitely think that this thread belongs in here. IMHO it's been one of the better ones recently.
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Old May 11, 2010, 06:48 AM   #47
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Quote:
Something is up with this thread. It is not very realistic...even if you did get mugged in Walmart at the self-checkout line then its not appropriate to pull your pistol.
Walmart makes this special somehow?

Quote:
There was a time when women were referred to as the "fairer sex", proper ladies did not travel alone, and their gentleman escorts (some anyhow) were skilled and armed, and it was little trouble to do so. All that is mostly gone.
It is mostly gone because it mostly never existed.
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Old May 11, 2010, 02:42 PM   #48
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Not suggesting that this would have or wouldn't have escalated to a deadly force situation. The only way I would have considered it such would be if my life or my wife's life were threatened. That didn't happen.

What did happen was my wife let herself get so distracted by the task she was engaged in that she never saw the guy until I pointed out what had just happened. Even though he was literally within bad breath distance before veering off.

I posted it as an awareness issue. This happened in a self-check out at Walmart. It's one example in our modern world of how we let our awareness falter when we're engaged in the mundane rat-race that we all deal with daily. I remembered this thread this morning as I was gassing up my truck near my office (which isn't in the greatest part of town). There I was reading work emails on my smartphone and realized I probably should be paying more attention to my surroundings. I put the phone away.

If the thread doesn't belong here, I'm sure a moderator will shut it down at their discretion.

RR
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Old May 11, 2010, 03:50 PM   #49
ClayInTx
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I believe this subject is as important as many others and more important than some I’ve seen here.

Many times someone will post about an incident and half the responses will be that they should have had better situational awareness. Well, rantingredneck told of a situation.

If at a self-check I’m usually trying to get the machine to realize that it should have expected the “unexpected item in the bagging area” to have been expected because I just rang it up and also set it on the “place item here” pad before bagging, and why place it on that stupid pad anyway because if that’s an RFID chip neutralizer the sack of bread don’t have no damn RFID chip in it noway.

Now I don’t know about all Wal-Marts but the ones I’ve seen have the self-checks near the exits. A grab and run theft is probably easy there. The only way a bunch of other customers are going to know something has happened is because that lady, as old as I am, at the door is yelling, “Sir! Sir! I need to see your receipt for that sequined purse you’re carrying! Sir! Sir!” Then as she turns to another customer she says, “And didn’t match his shoes at all!”
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Old May 11, 2010, 06:25 PM   #50
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I think situational awareness is important, but if we need firearms and have to be on guard at the self-checkout line at the local Walmart...well maybe thats a Walmart you may want to think twice about going. Ive been to many grocery stores and never once did I feel the need to carry a firearm into one or be situationally aware.

There are cameras, store employees and customers everywhere. Usually the local police like to cruise through and hang out in the parking lot. The place is lit up very well so this should not be a place where you have to watch yourself.
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