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View Poll Results: Are you guilty or innocent of having an incident of "Hi-Capacity Syndrome"?
Guilty 23 35.38%
Innocent 42 64.62%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 29, 2010, 05:28 AM   #26
rickyrick
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I understand what the OP was asking.....But

Some of you should lighten up. Being tactical all of the time is not good for the health....

Find someone you know that has a farm that you can use,

Grab all of you guns,

as much ammo as you can afford, heck go on debt a little bit, and get more bounce a check

all the useless crap in your house for targets, cans of spam will work too

drinks and snacks.

drive to above mentioned farm and shoot holes in everthing you can, run out of targets? no problem, use the car's owner's manual. Just have fun!!

Clean your mess up...especially shotgun shells, cows eat them, not good.

go home spend the next week cleaning your guns.............
Now you can go back to your training.
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Old April 29, 2010, 06:34 AM   #27
CajunBass
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Quote:
When I'm having enjoyable shooting at either an indoor range (paper) or my outdoor range (you name it!) then I'm typically loading my mags with 5 rounds (if it's .45 or 10mm) or 10 rounds (if it's 9mm.)

I do that because it's easier to load the mags... I don't spend as much time wrecking my thumb and I've got a nice even number as I chew through my boxes of ammo -- 5 rounds or 10 rounds at a time.
I do the same thing. I'm in no hurry to shoot up my ammo. It's also easier to find the brass. Shoot five...pick up the brass. Shoot five...pick up the brass..
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:03 AM   #28
LordTio3
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Same range trip as before, I was down shooting with my good friends. Between us (xD9, Glock 19, Marlin .22lr) we were having a pretty good day. There was hardly anyone else at the range and it was warm and sunny.

2 lanes to my right, there was a kid about 22 or 23. He had brought a friend of his that was new to guns and was instructing him rather poorly about basic gun handling. They had an M&P 9, Springfield xD9sc, a Beretta or Stoeger Cougar 8000 compact, and some 1911 look-alike that I'd never seen. All 9mm's (I know becuase they left a mess that my buddies and I weren't going to abide at closing time) shooting at 6 inch, black and neon immediate visual feedback targets at 7yds. His friend got a few magazines down range and seemed to be satisfied with the experience. Then this kid stepped up.

I saw in his behavior exactly what I'm trying to convey. He loaded a mag for each gun and proceeded to shoot at a steady rate. Not taking his time, not paying attention to much of anything. He shot one pistol at each target, one mag a piece. It was my turn to sit out of the lane, so I walked over to see how he had done (I was intrigued after seeing the skeet shooting). He got a few rounds of each magazine inside the 6 inch target. None in the central rings or on the x; but he seemed to be completely satisfied.

Now I'm not one to criticise others' skill levels. I'm not the best shot around either, but this kid threw close to 40 rounds down range, only got a handfull of them to hit a 6" target at 21 feet, and was completely happy with it. And it seems that I've been seeing this a lot more lately. Like with the increase in citizens getting their CCW's/CHL/LTCH's. A good number of them that even I've known think that there is really no more to "being a good shot" than to go to the class and qualify with your carry weapon. No offense, but most of the "Qualifications" are a complete joke. They tend to just want to make sure you aren't going to Blow your or someone else's face off when you actually have a gun in your hands. You are no where NEAR combat accurate if you minimally pass a test like some of those I've read and heard of. And once you pass them for a day, those skills gained are "good for a lifetime" whether you practice them further or not.

Now most of you gentlemen (and ladies?) seem to have the right mindset about this. You are good enthusiastic trainers with realistic expectations. I just don't feel, in my experience, like the majority of shooters or "weekend enthusiasts" share our creed or respect for the process.

~LT
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:10 AM   #29
Firepower!
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High capacity always helps, but it is not a determining factor for me. If it was, then I would not have had revolvers. For my Glock 19 I have 6 or 8 (cant remember) 33rd magazines, but I dont use often. Only when the situation calls for something as such, I take them with me.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:44 AM   #30
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I'm the opposite. The better I shoot - the faster I shoot. If I'm missing some, I slow down and focus more.

Now when dove hunting - thats another story.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:59 AM   #31
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I am a reasonably good shot, and seldom take more than two shots to "kill" my coke can.I used to reload 44 mag as I had a Uberti 44m and a Marlin 1894S. When shooting out in the desert around Vegas before all them Kalifornians moved in and ruined it for us, I had a hundred 44 capsules that I loaded with , 00, BB's and birdshot.When a newby showed up, it was a popular place, I loaded my Uberti with six BB shot capsules and lined up six cans about a yard apart. Step off ten paces and proceed to draw and fan off six shots sending cans aflyin.Don't do this this without shooting gloves unless you enjoy the sight of blood, even your own.Don't ask me how I know this!Master Shooters Supply on W.Sahara used to keep maps of all the legal places to shoot,Floyd is cool,sold me three or four guns at cost plus 10%. Last time I was there in 2000,that spot was off limits due to complaints from the afore mentioned Kalifornians complaining about the noise though their subdivision was three miles away.FWIW that spot was a natural wash about 50 yds long 100 ft wide and thirty ft deep.Very condusive for muffling the sound of gunfire.If you stop by Masters, tell Floyd, the big Texan with the blue Cherokee, says hello.
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Old April 29, 2010, 08:09 AM   #32
group17
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Harmful to my wallet from all the extra ammo I use.
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Old April 29, 2010, 08:35 AM   #33
Sevens
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Quote:
Now most of you gentlemen (and ladies?) seem to have the right mindset about this. You are good enthusiastic trainers with realistic expectations. I just don't feel, in my experience, like the majority of shooters or "weekend enthusiasts" share our creed or respect for the process.
My first comment is... when hanging around TFL, you've gotta know it's not the general shooting public that you are exchanging ideas with. Around here, it's mostly the lifers and hardcore enthusiasts. Sure, we get folks passing through and people that try it out and move on to RVing or frisbee golf, but for the most part, the people who post around here are life long shooters and quite serious about their passion.

Secondly... these folks you see at the range -- we all see them, often. I always think of two things: First is that I feel better about my shooting almost every time I'm at a range when I keep an eye on how I'm ventilating my target and I glace around all the targets and see shotgun patterns on them.

The other thing that occurs to me is that some of the other folks must be seeing a properly punched target and it must give them some idea of a goal they ought to want to replicate or at least try to replicate. And those folks will get there -- or they'll quit shooting. Either way, your experience is what all of us see every single time we visit any kind of shooting venue open to the public.

Then, of course, I always think of that third thing that never occurs to me right away. And that is... it's not really worth spending much energy on. It's certainly their right to burn through 200 rounds and hit nothing. They seem to be enjoying themselves. Their range fees help keep the joint open. Their paying inflated prices for ammo keeps the shop ordering more. The brass they spew all over the range is hopefully coming home in my bag. And a few more folks owning guns is good for the cause.

So I try not to spend too much energy thinking about 'em. And if they want to chat about what I'm shooting or how I'm shooting it, I'm all ready to chat and swap shots from each others handguns. It's all good!
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Old April 29, 2010, 10:16 AM   #34
rickyrick
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looks like another thread turned serious....

I don't think that because a person is not forced into going to a range qualifies them as a "weekend shooter" and not serious about shooting.
I love doing it and have since I was a child.
I feel fortunate that if I wanna fill a jug full of pudding draw a picture of Elmer Fudd on it and blast it with a 12ga I can...

I can also put up professional targets too.

I don't think that its rocket science to learn to shoot well either. I have taken children out, and taught them to shoot safely in less than an hour or two and they can hit the target with good groups.

so maybe instead of looking down at some poor shooters at the ranges put up a flyer or something and offer your mentorship...we need to get more enthusiasts owning guns and improve the image of handgunners and riflemen... the tactical image isn't allways the best image for the public to see.


I know that I ran some ideas together but I think yall will understand.
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Old April 29, 2010, 10:38 AM   #35
Sturmgewehre
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Quote:
I understand what the OP was asking.....But

Some of you should lighten up. Being tactical all of the time is not good for the health....

Find someone you know that has a farm that you can use,

Grab all of you guns,

as much ammo as you can afford, heck go on debt a little bit, and get more bounce a check

all the useless crap in your house for targets, cans of spam will work too

drinks and snacks.

drive to above mentioned farm and shoot holes in everthing you can, run out of targets? no problem, use the car's owner's manual. Just have fun!!

Clean your mess up...especially shotgun shells, cows eat them, not good.

go home spend the next week cleaning your guns.............
Now you can go back to your training.
No way, that's a waste of ammo!

This is as informal as I get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm4BcGjvZ7Q

But then I only have 8 shot pistols.
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Old April 29, 2010, 12:28 PM   #36
Firepower!
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Waste of ammo is and waste of money are very subjective. What is waste to one may be a very cheap price for good time, etc.
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Old April 29, 2010, 12:37 PM   #37
jeffreybehr
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tio3, if you read this FBI article... http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/...eb.htm#page_15 ...I think you wouldn't wonder about multiple-shot police shootings.

"I believe just about every police shooting I've seen footage of ends with the officer emptying his magazine at an assailant. While I mean no disrespect to these officers, they are in a fight for their lives, I have to wonder if having so many round available has given them a false sense of security about their skills."
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Old April 29, 2010, 01:39 PM   #38
rickyrick
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Jeffrey,

That's an excellent article.
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Old April 29, 2010, 01:58 PM   #39
LordTio3
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Jeffrey,

That is a great article. I just finished with it and am glad to have read it. However, I believe that I may have mis-represented my assumptions about the stereotypical firefight.

I did not mean to convey the belief in the "One Shot Stop". I carry a 9mm every day and have no illusions that one shot COM is going to stop a determined attacker. But rather I meant to state that in the event that neither party makes it away from the fight in a retreat and the fight is determined to continue, the fights usually end in what is referred to as a "Kill Shot" (i.e. an incapacitating shot to either the heart, CNS, or other vital areas prompting a rapid bleedout); and my personal belief that these shots tend to, these days, be a result of a theory of statistical likelihood rather than skill.

It was the legendary Alan Quartermain who said, "If you can't do it with a single bullet, don't do it at all." While I'm not quite at this level of efficiency, I believe there to be a cache of wisdom in his train of thought.

JMHO
~LT
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Old April 29, 2010, 02:21 PM   #40
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My experience with mammals is that they don't die instantly or easily, a lot of hunters talk about clean kills but that usually several seconds at the fastest.

I was taught, in defensive shooting, the traditional double tap in the chest then start working on the pelvis to take the support structure out from under the bg.

sounds a little morbid, but since we were on the subject....
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Old April 29, 2010, 02:31 PM   #41
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Guilty and then some. In fact I've occasionally, just for the heck of it, done a "two-gun" blast-em string.

Did I hit the target much? No not really (though more times than I expected) but sometimes you do stuff for the sheer, ridiculous, FUN of it.
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Old April 29, 2010, 02:46 PM   #42
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I've never done that. if for some reason I can't hit something I usually slow down and try to figure out why. There's always a reason and it's never found in an empty mag.

I don't think that the larger capacity firearms give the impression that there are enough rounds to make up for sloppy marksmanship. At least not with me. I still view the firearm as something that if I have to use it I need to be efficient with it for any number of reasons.

I do empty magazines rapidly from time to time but that is to practice control and to see if the gun can perform under those conditions. I do this very rarely though as I don't see much practical call for ever having to do so.
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Old April 29, 2010, 02:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
Waste of ammo is and waste of money are very subjective. What is waste to one may be a very cheap price for good time, etc.
I think you missed the joke in there somewhere.

There's no such thing as a waste of ammo. If you fire the round and have a good time without killing or harming an innocent bystander or damaging property, it's a round well spent.

I routinely shoot dirt clods, cans, I've even bought cars out of the news paper for $300 and drove it to my range to become a big target. I'll shoot almost anything...
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Old April 29, 2010, 05:13 PM   #44
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Pro shooters can go through 100k rounds per year..much of that rapid fire...I don't think the issue is speed, but what your doing...if your training...it's worth it...
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Old April 29, 2010, 05:18 PM   #45
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The only real drawback I see to Hi-Capacity-I presume we're talking about 9MMs-is that some are too large for people with small hands to get a good grip on. Perhaps it's a legacy of my Bullseye shooting days, but I usually load any magazines with only 5 rounds. 22 rifles, that's something else.
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Old April 29, 2010, 06:18 PM   #46
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At the range, I usually load two rounds in each of three magazines. (1) point the gun, (2) verify the sight picture, (3) bang-bang, (4) swap magazines quickly, and repeat.

My mags hold either 13 or 16 rounds, but I practice to make good hits every time.

Loading full mags and just blasting through them strikes me as a colossal waste of ammo and training opportunity. If shots 1 and 2 are on target, I trust that the next 10 or so would be as well, and I don't feel compelled to prove it.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:14 PM   #47
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Nothing like letting loose with a full mag of 45acp in the old MAC10.

Good thing I reload...


Doug
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:41 PM   #48
rickyrick
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""Loading full mags and just blasting through them strikes me as a colossal waste of ammo and training opportunity.""

^^^party pooper^^^^ if you hit them all its not a waste.

I don't think that anyone here is overriding the value of good training and practicing precise shot placement....shooting is just plain fun.

ammo is just not a precious resource that I have to conserve like water. Hey I just go buy more, that's why I work so that I can purchase things that make me grin.....all that money in my wallet hurts my butt so I have to do something with it.
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Old April 29, 2010, 09:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
I don't think that anyone here is overriding the value of good training and practicing precise shot placement....shooting is just plain fun.

ammo is just not a precious resource that I have to conserve like water. Hey I just go buy more, that's why I work so that I can purchase things that make me grin.....all that money in my wallet hurts my butt so I have to do something with it.
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Old April 29, 2010, 10:23 PM   #50
Ichiro
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Well, rickyrick, the guys who blast through 15-17 round mags at my range don't make hits. It's their money and they can do what they want, but I don't have to approve of it, respect it, or emulate it.

Blasting off rounds is fun, but I get a better shotgun pattern on my targets when I shoot my 12-gauge. As for wasting ammo, I get a hell of a lot more fun out of pumping and shooting five 12-gauge shells than I do shotgunning a 16-round mag of 9mm ammo from a pistol.
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