The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 25, 2010, 04:53 PM   #1
horseman308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 448
gun confiscation in Shreveport, LA???

I got an email from a friend of mine. It appears that he got an article from the "National Gun Rights Association" in which there is a story about the police in the city of Shreveport having the authority to confiscate firearms from people it pulls over for traffic stops (that it, unrelated), such as those having ccw.

I have to be honest, this seems really hard to believe - not because the actual confiscation couldn't happen - but because if it was a city-wide ordinance, there would have to have been some kind of lawsuit filed by now. So, two questions.

1) Anybody heard of such a thing?

2) I tried to search the NGRA website and couldn't find the article. However, I haven't really heard of this group before. Are they legit? The come across as pretty alarmist to me, but I thought I'd ask.

Here's a copy of the article, in case anyone is interested.

Quote:

NAGRbanner


Dear Christopher,

A few months ago, the National Association for Gun Rights first broke this incredible tale out of Shreveport, Louisiana.

At the time, no other gun rights organization had touched the story. But when we tracked down the victim for an interview, we couldn't believe what we heard, and we immediately sent out a nationwide alert.

The story went viral overnight.

If this tale of government abuse moves you, send it to a friend or family member to get the word out.



Welcome to Shreveport: Your rights are now suspended.
According to Cedric Glover, mayor of Shreveport, Louisiana, his cops "have a power that [. . .] the President of these Unites States does not have": His cops can take away your rights.

And would you like to guess which rights he has in mind?

Just ask Shreveport resident Robert Baillio, who got pulled over for having two pro-gun bumper stickers on the back of his truck -- and had his gun confiscated.

While the officer who pulled him over says Baillio failed to use his turn signal, the only questions he had for Baillio concerned guns: Whether he had a gun, where the gun was, and if he was a member of a pro-gun organization.

No requests for a driver's licence, proof of insurance, or vehicle registration -- and no discussion of a turn signal.

Accordingly, Baillio told the officer the truth, which led the police officer to search his car without permission and confiscate his gun.

However, not only does Louisiana law allow residents to drive with loaded weapons in their vehicles, but Mr. Baillio possessed a concealed carry license!

What does such behavior demonstrate, other than transparent political profiling -- going so far as to use the infamous Department of Homeland Security report on "Americans of a rightwing persuasion" as a how-to guidebook, no less?

Mr. Baillio made no secret of his political affiliations: An American flag centers a wide flourish of pro-freedom stickers and decals on his back windshield.

In fact, when Baillio asked the officer if everyone he pulls over gets the same treatment, the officer said no and pointed to the back of his truck.

Baillio phoned Mayor Glover to complain about this "suspension of rights" only to find that his city's morbidly obese "commander in chief" was elated at the story: According to Glover, Baillio got "served well, protected well, and even got a consideration that maybe [he] should not have gotten."

Thankfully, Mr. Baillio recorded a good bit of that phone call. You can watch a video with the transcriptions here. I've reproduced a chunk of the call below:

Baillio: (in the context of being asked about the presence of a gun) Well, I answered that question honestly, and he disarmed me.

Glover: Which would be an appropriate and proper action, sir. The fact that you gave the correct answer -- it simply means that you did what it is you were supposed to have done, and that is to give that weapon to the police officer so he could appropriately place it in a place where it would not be a threat to you, to him, or to anyone in the general public.

[. . .]

Glover: My direction to you is that, had you chosen not to properly identify the fact that you had a weapon and directed that officer to where that weapon was located; had you been taken from the vehicle, and the officer, in the interest of his safety, chose to secure you in a safe position, and then looked, found, and determined that you did, in fact, have a weapon...then, sir, you would have faced additional, [inaudible], and more severe criminal sanctions.

Baillio: So what you're saying is: I give up all my rights to keep and bear arms if I'm stopped by the police: Is that correct?

Glover: Sir, you have no right, when you have been pulled over by a police officer for a potential criminal offense [which would be what?! - DB] to stand there with your weapon at your side in your hand [Baillio's weapon was nowhere near his side or his hand, and Glover knew that. - DB] because of your second amendment rights, sir. That does not mean at that point your second amendment right has been taken away; it means at that particular point in time, it has been suspended.


Will Grigg from ProLibertate, an excellent freedom blog, has this to say:

According to Glover, a police officer may properly disarm any civilian at any time, and the civilian's duty is to surrender his gun -- willingly, readily, cheerfully, without cavil or question.

From Glover's perspective, it is only when firearms are in the hands of people other than the state's uniformed enforcers/oppressors that they constitute a threat, not only to the public and those in charge of exercising official violence but also to the private gun owner himself.


NAGR spoke with Mr. Baillio, and he told us that he's in the process of securing the official procedures and codes for firearm handling and private property confiscation for the Shreveport police department.

So far, the city has been half-heartedly cooperating with him.

"I felt sick," Baillio told NAGR. "My uncles didn't die for this country so I could surrender my rights like a wimp. I felt terrible. I was just thinking of all that my family has done for freedom in this nation -- including dying -- and here they are disarming me at a traffic stop."

What to do?

1. Read Luke's commentary here, and participate in the discussion by leaving a comment.
2. Send this around. This kind of behavior cannot go unchecked.
3. Call Mayor Glover's office to complain: (318) 673-5050.

I'll leave you with one last consideration. As a licensed firearms instructor in charge of a hundred different students every month, I'm often asked if citizens should voluntarily inform police officers of the presence of a firearm during a routine traffic stop.

While different states have different laws, my answer for Colorado citizens is an emphatic "No": Colorado law doesn't require you to volunteer that kind of information, and this case in Louisiana proves why, if at all possible, you should never invite trouble by doing so.

For Liberty,



Dudley Brown
Executive Director
National Association for Gun Rights

P.S. NAGR maintains a gun rights blog that our members use to keep abreast of current gun rights developments.

Whether the news is coming down from Congress, the states, the ATF, Michael Bloomberg, Eric Holder, or even this particular autocratic city official, Luke will keep you ahead of the game and up to speed on the battle for your gun rights.

To visit the blog, click here or point your browser to www.NationalGunRights.org/Blog.


To help the National Association for Gun Rights grow, please forward this to a friend.

To view this email as a web page, please click this link: view online.

Help fight gun control. Donate to the National Association for Gun Rights!
__________________
You only take one shot at a time - make it count.
horseman308 is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 10:38 AM   #2
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,756
Thanks for sharing the story, I checked into it and there appear to be several versions of the story out there, some on blogs and a few are news articles from local reporters.

AFAIK is is perfectly acceptable for an officer to secure a firearm during a traffic stop, and it was returned at the end of the officer's traffic stop.

The profiling is disturbing, but seems to be more common these days, I looked into it and the SCOTUS seems to have no problem with it. Its the modern equivalent of DWB, or Arizona's new immigration law.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 11:31 AM   #3
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
I personally don't trust the "article." Given the rhetoric and word choice, it seems far to slanted to be reported accurately in this fashion. I wonder what the "Morbidly ObeseCheif's" story really is.
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 11:37 AM   #4
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 2,756
Here's a slightly different version of the story:

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=10652408
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 11:41 AM   #5
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,792
Unless one is planning to visit or move to Shreveport La. is it really relevant and does it matter?
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 11:48 AM   #6
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
Ok, that's not so bad. My understanding from the first post was that they were systematically taking guns away. It's just a ballsy cop and a stupid mayor.
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 12:14 PM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,982
OK.

Now that there's a little more subjectivity into this...

No guns were "confiscated." Anyone who uses that term is engaging in some serious hyperbole. The gun was retained for the duration of the traffic stop, then RETURNED.

If the individual was so worried about being on a busy street without his gun (while a police officer was there), why did he get out of the car without his gun in the first place? Doesn't make much sense.

I'm not sure what Louisiana law is, but I know that the law in other RTC carry states gives a police officer who stops a CCW'er the authority to TEMPORARILY, for the duration of the stop, secure and take possession of the gun.

I have no clue what this "National Gun Rights Association" is, but if they're trying to fight for gun rights they'd do a much better job of it by not being so bombastic and so damned wrong in their characterizations of what happened during the traffic stop.

I just did a Google on the NGRA, and the only one that I've found that seems to have any substance is based in Jamaica, West Indies. Not sure why this would resonate with them.

OK.... This was actually put out by the National Association for Gun Rights. The sequence of words is VERY important.

OK... I've just read through some of the stuff on their website.

Let's just say that I am NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, impressed.

Lots of misinformation, bombast, hyperbole, and out and out incorrect information in their blogs.

If these are our friends...



And WOW! Some of the reader comments are REALLY out there.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 12:33 PM   #8
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,087
Quote:
Let's just say that I am NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, impressed.

Lots of misinformation, bombast, hyperbole, and out and out incorrect information in their blogs.
+1

The NAGR is a gun rights wannabe organization. They use fear tactics to solicit donations. I can find no record of their monetary donations to the cause of gun rights.

You may be even less impressed by a congressman who shills for the NAGR:

http://www.capveterans.com/stop_obama_in_2010/id15.html
thallub is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 08:18 PM   #9
horseman308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 448
That was pretty much what I thought, but I wanted to try and get some independent confirmation before forming an opinion on either the truthfulness or the meaning of what was reported. I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the NAGR.
__________________
You only take one shot at a time - make it count.
horseman308 is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 09:41 PM   #10
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,315
Mike, you know I have a low opinion of GOA and their constant ragging on the NRA. They've got nothing on this new org, NAGR.

Personally, I wouldn't take anything they wrote as any kind of truth. Their stance on this "issue" sorta proves the point.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old April 26, 2010, 11:01 PM   #11
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,319
Thank you

I would just like to take a moment and thank horseman308 for posting this in a manner acceptable to the L&CR forum, instead of just a simple cut & paste drive by.

Too many times a well meaning poster only does a drive by, without giving any information or proposing any kind of discussion beyond a "hey, check this out!", and the thread gets closed, per L&CR rules.
Good job, and thanks!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 27, 2010, 08:42 AM   #12
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,982
I'd say it more than sorta proves the point, Al. That's the kind of skunk smell that I expect to come out of some of the anti-gun groups. I'd love to know what's driving these clowns.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 29, 2010, 02:10 AM   #13
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,112
Wading through all the "hyperbole" (my new favorite word BTW) of the initial article, the only real issue I see is the possibility of "political profiling"...

If in fact failure to use a turn signal warrents a citation in LA, and if in fact the officer actually addressed the failure to use a turn signal, then I really see no wrongdoing.

But, if the officer never addressed the turn signal issue and only concentrated on the presence of firearms through the duration of the stop, I see a high probability of profiling, given the nature of the citizen's bumper stickers.

One reason why the only sticker on my truck is the Coast Guard decal I have to display in order to drive on base...

I've never seen a Brady-bunch-type say "You know what? I've always thought guns were evil, but after seeing that 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people!' bumper sticker I think I'll join the NRA now."
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old April 29, 2010, 10:00 PM   #14
556plinker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 29, 2010
Posts: 4
Im with thallub

THALLUB:

I think you are spot on....I have seen something on the web concerning them promoting HILLARY and the UN small arms treaty. I'm in the IMPOSTER SOLICITING DONATIONS CAMP with these guys.
556plinker is offline  
Old May 31, 2010, 10:06 AM   #15
ncpatriot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 350
Don P, it absolutely matters. Whether any of us live in Shreveport or ever visit there, we need to know about such events. Knowing about firearms seizures in NO during Katrina has helped us in NC start pushing our legislators to prevent such a thing here. Bad enough for something to happen once, shame on us if we don't react and try to prevent a repeat.
__________________
Remember the American heroes of Flight 93.
ncpatriot is offline  
Old May 31, 2010, 03:01 PM   #16
Uncle Buck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
I'd love to know what's driving these clowns.

Money I am sure. Send me money so I can spend it comming up with more hyperbole and B.S. to scare you out of more money.

The only way to fight this kind of stuff is to send me money so I can expose them for what they are. Your rights will be affected if you don't.

Especially being in the West Indies, I would imagine they do not have to worry to much about US Tax codes and non-profit paperwork.

Thanks for doing more research on these folks.


P.s. - But seriously, you can send me some money.
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
Uncle Buck is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10864 seconds with 7 queries