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Old April 30, 2008, 07:54 PM   #1
McAlpin
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Join Date: April 30, 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
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M1A Scout Squad and Aimpoint

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and a little stupid on some of the finer points of shooting. I just purchased a M1A Scout Squad and added an Aimpoint Comp M2 4 MOA. I purchased the M1A because I used to shoot the M14 in the US Navy and liked the feel of it. I qualified Expert once and Marksman on another try. Now to my question...

I purchased a Burris Xtreme Tactical 30mm scope mount ring to mount the Aimpoint on a forward picatinny rail. I think (again could be stupid) it is the wrong mount to also allow use of the iron sights on an M1A. The hole to use the iron sights is about 1/4" to the right of the rifle center. The scope is dead center in alignment with the picatinny. How was this mount ever designed to use centered iron sights? Again if I am just "not getting it" please point it out to me.

I just got the rifle this week and will be zeroing in the sights this weekend. Since I got a higher mount (allowing the hole for the use of the iron sights) I assume that I will have to adjust the elevation of the red dot sight to allow for proper shot height.

Any advice will be much appreciated, since I will waste less ammo zeroing the weapon.
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Old April 30, 2008, 08:26 PM   #2
wjkuleck
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Join Date: March 13, 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,220
First, please allow me to thank you for your service to our Nation!

Next, the Aimpoint is best used when coregistered with the iron sights. That is, when looking through the properly sighted-in Aimpoint, the dot is on the tip of the properly sighted-in iron sight setup. This is easy to accomplish for the AR-15/M16. ARMS provides a spacer to raise their M68 mount for the Aimpoint up to the iron sight line of the AR015/M16.

The Aimpoint was not designed with the M!4-type rifle in mind. There is no standard for the M14-type as to the height of a scope mount or forend rail with respect to the bore axis. I'm unaware of an Aimpoint mount that's designed for iron sight see-through. That doesn't mean their isn't one, I just don't know about it. In any case, the M14 provides a challenge in terms of buttstock comb height. To get a solid cheek weld with the Aimpoint requires a higher comb than for the irons. That's one reason the Sage and Troy stock systems which we (Fulton Armory) offer have adjustable buttstock combs.

'Bout the only way to be able to use the irons and the Aimpoint at the same time (or rather, have them available for use without removing the Aimpoint) is to use a 45 degree forend rail. The Aimpoint is mounted on the angled rail; for use at close quarters, the rifle is rotated 45 degrees CCW so as to bring the Aimpoint around to the line of sight. Otherwise, the iron sights can be used in the normal fashion. We have such a rail available for our M14 and M1 Garand Super Scout rail handguards.

Sighting in with your setup is no different from sighting in any optic. While the height of the optic will have a minor effect on a 50-yard zero, for example, there's no reason for the shooter to even be aware of the optical axis' height over the bore axis (except in the case of extreme close quarters, when the shooter can see over the top of a barrier through the sights, while the muzzle is below the top of the barrier. Taking the shot will have some startling results).

Regards,

Walt
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Last edited by wjkuleck; April 30, 2008 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Old July 8, 2010, 10:09 AM   #3
grockler
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Join Date: July 8, 2010
Posts: 1
I really don't understand why anyone finds the need to spend money needlessly. First of all, the M14 / M1A platform is proven accurate with iron sights out to 400 yards. Now, with a scout version, you have a battle rifle, not a target match rifle. My opinion: leave the rifle alone, learn to use the iron sights, set it as battle sights, not target zero, and you are ready for action! If you want to set up a weapon as a traget rifle or long range sniper type weapon, get the full size M1A or a Remy 700 and then spend your money on steel rails and rings and high quality optics.
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Old July 8, 2010, 11:50 AM   #4
wjkuleck
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Location: Ohio, USA
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A valid reason for a magnified optic on a US Gas Operated Service Rifle is target identification. It's not hard to hit out to 600 yds with the service aperture sight, but unless the target is a bulls-eye, you may not be able to discern whether it is friend or foe.

Regards,

Walt
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Old July 8, 2010, 03:24 PM   #5
gunmoney
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Join Date: June 3, 2005
Posts: 381
I don't believe that anyone makes any kind of aimpoint see-thru mount, especially for the M1A scout. Your best bet would be to obtain a low ring mount to attempt and co-witness the irons with the red dot. I am not sure if that is even possible given the "low" sight plane of the stock M1A sights. As far as Iron sights only, the idea behind reflex type optics is the notion of "force multiplication" (for lack of a better term). If I am good with iron sights then I can be great with a reflex sight. Devices like aimpoints can give you an advantage in speed and precision.
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