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Old April 22, 2010, 11:35 PM   #1
justducttapeit69
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Remington 700 VLS .204 tight spring/loading

I have a remington 700 .204 in which i close the bolt it is very tough, i have trimmed all my cases to the proper trim legnth. Its like the bolt will close properly but i have to push forward on the bolt pretty hard. It feels almost like a spring is stopping it. I cleaned the bolt and everything and the headspacing should be fine. Any ideas would be great. This is my first post on this forum. So I hope I did this right. thanks if y'all help!
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Old April 23, 2010, 03:39 AM   #2
Dannyl
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Hi,
from what you tell us it sounds like the bullet is seated so that it needs to be forced against the lands (the rifling)

Ideally you want it close to the lands, but not touching them. having the bullets sit hard against them will raise pressures which can be dangerous.

Another thing you must check is that you clean the primer pocket and the primer is seated so that it is flush with the case head or slightly recessed in the pocket.

I think in this case it is likely that your bullets are seated too long and you need to reduce the COL.

Brgds,

Danny
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Old April 23, 2010, 09:54 AM   #3
justducttapeit69
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ok, so this seems weird but how can the C.O.L. effect the bolt closing? In my eyes I see the bullet can be seated to any depth and still work just because the entire barrell is a .20 caliber. Is this not correct then? I guess I don't understand completely how the bullet should seat in the gun. Also the primer is seated properly I believe. Isn't the brass suppose to sit inside of the bolt? I'll explain the order of operation as it is happening:
1. place brass in magazine.
2. slide bolt forward.
3. bullet feels like it stops (I assume headspacing is 0) (the bolt still needs to go forward about 1/4 of an inch!)(thats why I don't see seating the bullet another .100 is going to do any different.)
4. then I press forward with the bolt pretty hard and it feels like a spring 'gives' and the bolt goes forward. It almost feels like the extractor spring, or the other little round circle thing inside the bolt is what is 'giving'.(what is that part called?)
5. press down the bolt.

thanks again!
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Old April 23, 2010, 11:41 AM   #4
Dannyl
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Hi,

The part you are referring to is the ejector.
Another important question is whether you are full sizing or neck sizing only?

Regarding COL, her is why it does matter:


the depth at which you seat the bullet does matter and it is not unlimited.
I did not say that your bullet is .100 too long, I say that it is likely a full mm too long (or more?)

Rifles of different manufacturers have different free-bores ( this is the distance from the beginning of the barrel to where the rifling begins.
This is why factory ammo, which is made to fit in all rifles has the bullets seated considerably deep in the case.

The fact is that a bullet fits very tight against the rifling.
To demostrate this, try the following.
Take your rifle and first make sure it is clear from any ammo, now hold it upright with the butt on the floor.
Take a bullet (just the bullet), try and force it (sharp side first) into the barrel from the muzzle.

You will now notice that it is a rather tight fit, quite likely that you won't get it to go in at all without a considerable effort.

Now, the same thing happens when your bullet is seated so that when trying to close the bolt the ogive contacts the rifling and this explains why you need to push so hard to close the bolt. When you force the cartridge in two things happen;
1. you are forcing the bullet against the lands (rifling)
2. very likely at some point the bullet is also being pushed deeper into the case.

any of the two will cause pressures to rise considerably.

To check, please do this:
1.Take an empty case that has been resized, but not primed.
2.Seat a bullet as you normally do. make sure the bullet has not scratches or nicks.
3.Insert the dummy (this is what reloaders call a cartridge that has no primer and powder) in the chamber and close the bolt.
4. Extract the dummy slowly, so that it does not fall to the ground.
5. using a good light and magnifying glass, look for marks of the rifling on the bullet ( they will be on the part that is of the rifle's caliber), if they are there your bullet is sitting agains the lands. if they look like score marks, you are forcing the bullet hard agains the lands.
6. now measure the COL and see whether or not the bullet has been pushed into the case.


Please let me know the results of your tests. Also, please remember that I am trying to assist you, I have no reason to give you incorrect or misleading answers.

Brgds,

Danny

Last edited by Dannyl; April 23, 2010 at 11:57 AM.
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Old April 23, 2010, 06:38 PM   #5
mrawesome22
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We still need to know whether you are neck sizing(NS) or full length(FL) sizing. If you are FL sizing, try this.
1. Take the die out and back the lock ring way off.
2. Raise the ram all the way up.
3. Insert die and lower it to make firm contact with shell holder.
4. Lower ram.
5. Screw die IN another 1/4th turn.
6. Raise ram to die and put firm pressure against the die.
7. Screw lock ring down against top of press.
8. Tighten lock ring set screw. Unless you have a Lee lock ring.
9. Size a case.
10. Chamber the empty case and see how it goes.

If it chambers easily, you're good to go. If not, the die is either too big in diameter, or the headspace in the die is too long, or the top of the shell holder is too thick.

The "grooves" in your barrel should be darn near .204". The "lands" are the rifling and stick out. That is the spiral you see when you look down the barrel. It is what grabs the bullet and gives it spin. To check for bullet seating depth, try this.

Take an empty case. Cut a vertical slit in the neck, barely into the shoulder, with a hacksaw. Barely seat the bullet you want to use in this case with your hands. Chamber this round in your rifle. Eject it with your hand covering the ejection port. Take it out and measure it from base to tip with your calipers. This will give you MAX OAL (over all length) for that bullet. In other words, this bullet is touching the rifling. Now you can experiment with different seating depths. I've found that my rifle usually gives best accuracy .030" away from the rifling. But you'll just have to experiment as to what shoots the best out of your gun. This method works very well and you don't have to waste money on a Stoney Point gauge.

This should be in The Handloading and Reloading Forum.
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Old April 25, 2010, 02:39 PM   #6
justducttapeit69
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Ok, so thanks so much for all your replies. First off I have been using the FULL LEGNTH die set, because they were new brass. Each brass was trimmed to the correct trim-to legnth (i believe it was somewhere around 1.840) When sizing them I do screw the die in one quarter or so more of a turn. I was not able to have time yet to make a dummy bullet. However I did try to correct the COL from 2.245 (maybe?) to 2.000 and it looked too short for a COL, however it did feel easier, but not as easy as it should when chambering I believe. I did place an empty fired case in the chamber and it chambered nice and easily and smoothly. I have cleaned the bore well multiple passes with my bore snake and oils and what not. Can I remove the barrel and clean the "rifling" or whatever. I guess I just wonder if its being cleaning well when running the snake through. Thanks so much!
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Old April 25, 2010, 04:41 PM   #7
mrawesome22
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Quote:
I did place an empty fired case in the chamber and it chambered nice and easily and smoothly.
Then it could be either the brass on the neck is too thick, or you have a tight necked chamber. Have you ever cleaned the chamber of this rifle?
Quote:
I have cleaned the bore well multiple passes with my bore snake and oils and what not.
This is not going to cut it. To properly clean a rifle bore, you will need a bore guide, a one piece rod, brushes, jags, patches and copper and fouling solvents. Those bore snakes are good for 22's. That's about it.
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