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View Poll Results: Does Mini 14 makes its way into your collection if you are limited to only 10 rifles?
Yes 137 58.30%
No 98 41.70%
Voters: 235. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 27, 2010, 08:50 AM   #101
Art Eatman
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Even the best off-the-shelf Mini is about a two MOA gun; maybe a smidgen better. Between that and the performance of the .223 cartridge, I've always figured it as a 200-yard gun for jackrabbits and coyotes. With that in mind, a fixed 4X scope is plenty good. Always worked well for me on four Minis.

But a Mini never has been much for paper-punching from a benchrest without a bunch of tuning.
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Old April 27, 2010, 11:55 AM   #102
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If I wanted a modular tactical weapons system, I might get an AR. That wasn't what I wanted.
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Old April 27, 2010, 12:16 PM   #103
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If not much for paper punching then it has no place in my collection since I got plenty other toys for that and HD.
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Old April 27, 2010, 01:02 PM   #104
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I have been trying not to go there but since reliability keeps getting brought up.

I haven't seen an AR without the forward assist on them....the offspring of the dirty little design flaw....right there in your face
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Old April 27, 2010, 01:16 PM   #105
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Alright, lets compare apples to apples with real world prices.
To buy complete rifles you can expect to pay

Ruger Ranch rifle. List price $898 Street price $700 blue $800 SS
Ruger Target rifle List price $1098 Street price $900-$1,000
Rock River 24" Varmit AR $1170
Stag 20 flat top with rail $895
Delton, any configuration $750

To put a rifle together you can get a Rock River complete lower for $290 and a basic upper comparable to the Ranch rifle for $490. Total for a quality AR-15, $780.

A Stag Lower is $199. Uppers range between $445 and $595 so you could put together a Stag AR for as little as $644.

Either the Rock River or Stag rifles are much better quality than the Ruger Ranch rifle, for about the same or less. I simply don't know about the Delton and would buy oneof the others anyway.

When I said you could get a 24" Varmit upper for half the cost of a new Ruger I was a little off. If you already have a lower receiver a new Varmit upper would range between $550 and $635. If you compare that to the cost of a Ruger target rifle at just under $1,000 street price it is not quite half. Remember, with the AR you don't have to buy the whole rifle.

Also as I said earlier there are other costs to consider. If you want the folding stock for the Ruger it will cost you an additional $120. Want to put a red dot on a Ruger will cost you an additional $50 for the rail to mount it on. Buy 5, 20 round magazines for the Ruger and you will spend an extra $200. If you can find them. 5, 30 rounders for the AR will cost you $50 and they are everywhere.

Want to shoot another caliber in the AR and you just buy another upper. Want to do that with a Ruger and you are SOL.

Don't believe me, do your own research.

www.ruger.com
www.stagarms.com
www.rockriverarms.com
www.del-ton.com
www.midwayusa.com
www.cabelas.com

Never said the Ruger was a bad rifle, just over priced for what you get. I actually liked the older Rugers. I used to pick them up used for around $200 and at that price could live with the 3" groups. But If I'm spending $700 anyway I want something better.
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Old April 27, 2010, 02:16 PM   #106
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Why do you AR guys spend so much time and thought into trying to bash the Mini. If I don't like chocalote ice cream I don't eat it. I'm not gonna waste my time going to the internet and researching why chocalote ice cream is bad.

The answer to the OP's question if you're an AR guy should be plain and simple, no. Maybe followed by a quick comment on why. Instead every Mini thread is turned into "Mini's suck, buy an AR" by the AR crowd. You guys are getting as bad as the S&W guys and radio sports talk guru's.

Mini's are fine and do everything they are designed to do. They are not suppose to be 300 yard paper punchers or gopher guns. Mini's look good, more traditional, handle well and are reliable. Doesn't sound like junk too me. There is no doubt that they aren't the deal they were 10 years ago, nothing is. You don't have to like em, you don't have to own one but to constantly run a perfectly fine gun into the ground is getting rediculous.

All the above is posted by a guy that will more than likely never own either again and if he did it would be an AR.

LK
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Old April 27, 2010, 02:18 PM   #107
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steel case wolf? Eats it like a 5 year old given a jar of jelly beans.
That dented up poorly seated "military contract over runs" aim surplus sold cheap about 2 years ago? Ate it up fantastically. I ended up buying some more of it from others who bought it on the super cheap. Just chomped right through it. Not that the stuff was in terrible shape, but everybody was afraid to put it in their AR(and I wouldn't put it in mine either).
Loading this type of ammo (crap)into an m4gery seems like a bad idea to me.

It can't shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards. Neither can I prone supported. Off a bench maybe, but I didn't buy it to shoot off a bench.



I bought a blemish CMMG M4gery, Magpull mags, and a decent carry handle. Getting decent AR mags will close the price gap there a bit on the cost of mini mags. After the carry handle I was above the price of a stock mini. I have doubts as to the quality of an AR in the $700 realm that does not have something like a "blemish" to drop the price. Chrome lined barrel? The mini comes with nice rings and that would be an additional cost for the AR. I have yet to handle a collapsing stock that did not rattle when open or closed. My BC stock is not perfect, but at least it does not rattle and the original walnut stock found on my mini was of pretty nice quality.

The ergonomics of the AR are better, especially the drop mag. I do not like the rear sight all that much on my mini as it can not be adjusted very easily. Still my SHTF gun over my M4gery.
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Last edited by johnwilliamson062; April 27, 2010 at 02:39 PM.
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Old April 27, 2010, 02:26 PM   #108
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I know i'm gonna hear it on this one.....

I have put badly dented ammo into my mini and fired it no problem..

wouldn't do it with any other gun though
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Old April 27, 2010, 03:22 PM   #109
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Not even close...

Maybe if I had a 100, one would be a Mini 14! Maybe?

C.
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Old April 27, 2010, 03:46 PM   #110
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I am not an AR guy by any means. I have tons of assualt rifles and AR platform is a small number in there. This thread was never intended for AR v. Mini debate. It was simply asking whether Mini is worth the money and collection, as per the set criteria in poll qestion. My answer as I stated before was NO.
That said, I am not sure why to even bother having a mini at all regardless of fact if we are limited to 10 or 1000 rifles. If it can do decent group at 300, if it cant be a go to gun, cant be this, cant be that. Then what in the world is it good for? Can some one please enlighten me as to why a Mini is a good option to be in top 10 rifles in one's collection? In my top ten list following rifles were included and I am proud to own most of them: Aks74u, Ak47 russian, HK GIII, AUG, Galil, Colt M4A1, Sig 551-2, 7x57 Mauser by Zastava, 7mm Mag by H&H, and L85a2. I own all except the sig which is making its way to me- so it seems.

In the said list I for one cannot see a Mini making a cut.

This was the reason why I started the thread to see what other people think. And to assess what niche does the Mini fullfill. I understand that not many of you have access to full auto that I listed, but still I am sure you have decent availability of their semi auto versions.
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Old April 27, 2010, 05:37 PM   #111
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Not go to guns? Don't know where anyone said that (except for an AR guy ).

The Mini-14 makes an excellent SHTF gun. As I said before, they're extremely reliable and are battlefield accurate. They're also good for hunting small to medium game. About the only thing it doesn't do well is make tiny groups.
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Old April 27, 2010, 07:38 PM   #112
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Firepower,

all of the guns you mentioned that I know about are pretty cool.
the mini is pretty cool too.

It has a history as an LE rifle...kinda made for the military type weopon guys and to keep the lawyers happy at the same time.

I honestly think the mini gets a bad rap because many people were angry over Mr. Ruger's actions during the assault rifle ban hearings...If you don't know about that you can look it up, not going into that here.

by definition, niether the mini nor the ar platforms are assault rifles, they are sporters...just a big misunderstanding by the gun ban crowd.
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Old April 27, 2010, 07:53 PM   #113
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I also don't know where you got the idea that is was not suitable for a goto rifle. I think that is what most mini users have it for.
It just is not a target rifle. If you are ok with 2 MOA groups, maybe 1MOA with a good bit of work and the extra weight of an accustrut, then it is excellent. If you want .50 MOA groups then the rifle is not for you.
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Old April 27, 2010, 09:56 PM   #114
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Mine will shoot 3-4 inch groups at 300yrds shooting off a rest. It will hit a torso sized target at 300yrds offhand. Thats exactly what ive got it for. Accustrut and good handloads made a huge dirrence for me. What else could you ask of a mini? It doesnt jam and will shoot anything. Maybe its not good enough for your collection but it gets the job done pretty damn good in mine.So if you dont want one dont buy one. Several people have allready attested to the reliability and quality of a mini. You have the information you were looking for.
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Old April 28, 2010, 04:43 AM   #115
Firepower!
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Lets bring it a notch down.

Ok. So let us bring a notch down. We have been talking about reliability and accuracy out to 300 yards.

How about if we leave the reliability factor aside (since most of us agree that its pretty reliable), and discuss accuracy at 200 and 100 yards. Whats the tightest group you can or have made with Mini at 100 and 200 yards, scoped?
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Old April 28, 2010, 05:20 AM   #116
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Actually, I have had mine scoped for several months and the groups seemed to have opened up a bit, however I have been dealing with howling winds every time I go shoot. On the day I zeroed it, I had 40mph gusts so its really a rough zero.

Not expected to ever shoot it past 150yds, I got something else for that.

when my evening varmint projects are over I plan to take the scope off.
I prefer slaying beer cans and such with irons.
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Old April 28, 2010, 10:10 AM   #117
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Quote:
Ok. So let us bring a notch down. We have been talking about reliability and accuracy out to 300 yards.

How about if we leave the reliability factor aside (since most of us agree that its pretty reliable), and discuss accuracy at 200 and 100 yards. Whats the tightest group you can or have made with Mini at 100 and 200 yards, scoped?
The group highlighted in red has two shots in just under 2 inches, with a third straggler opening it up to 3 ¾ inches. The dropped shot below the bull was simply operator error.

The best 3-shot group of the day was 1 3/4" using the 55 grain UMC load. I think the rifle is actually shooting this well, as long as the barrel stays relatively cool. Even with a hot barrel, the last three-shot group that day was 3 7/8 inches at 210 yards.



The rifle has had the trigger cleaned up since that target. An old Bushnell 4X was used and it would likely do a little better, with a good piece glass on it.

I could sell it I guess, and pay a lot more for an AR with a good barrel and decent trigger, that would outshoot my 580 Mini by a thin margin.

Or I could be happy with what I've got and spend that money on something else. Which seems like, by far, the most likely event
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Old April 28, 2010, 10:37 AM   #118
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Since this thread isn't really going anywhere, I'll mess around a bit:

I'm happy with my Ruger bolt action .223; great for prairie dogs. Got an AR 15; not sure why, but probably "just because". A little Sako carbine in .243. A 700 Ti in 7mm08. That's four. My Wby Mk V in '06 is on loan. I have an old Schutzen .22 rimfire and a Walther Model 2 .22 rimfire; both are tack-drivers. That's seven. A Garand, and my father's bring-back D-Day M1 Carbine; nostalgia. That's nine.

I don't have a Mini, for no particular reason. Just haven't run across one at a decent price. I had fun with the four I've owned and traded off at a profit. But I certainly wouldn't object to one coming to me as #10 in my stash of critters.
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Old April 28, 2010, 10:56 AM   #119
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Mr. Art sir,

My crystal ball says this will not be the last mini debate.
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Old April 28, 2010, 01:56 PM   #120
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Same thing happens to me. Every time I get rid of mini 14, it comes back in to the arsenal in a deal I cant refuse. The last time I got rid of it was due to its lacking appeal in collection. Thought to myself that I will never buy it again, but in a great deal for half the price they go for here, I got a SS finish ranch rifle. Now again thinking of trading it for something better.
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Old April 28, 2010, 08:10 PM   #121
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I should probably just let this die, but feel I need to emphasize that I'm not a Mini-14 hater. I just feel there are better options for the money. And yes, you can get a quality AR-15 for under $700. For around $800 you can get a really good one, but without all the fancy bells and whistles. I did a little more research today. At www.budsgunshop.com you can get a Colt for slightly under $1,000. A Bushmaster for $830 and an Armalite or Rockriver for $780. As I noted in an earlier post it is possible to put together a Stag for as little as $645.

Bushmaster, Armalite and Colt are considered the best in the business and Rockriver is not far behind. A Stag may not be what someone would want to take into combat, but I have one that I paid well under $700 for and it has been perfect for me. My $700 Rockriver is a 1/2 MOA shooter and has also never failed to perform.

While the Mini's work fine, I don't see the point in paying close to $700 when a quality AR is so close to the same price. Possibly less expensive with careful shopping.
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Old April 28, 2010, 09:10 PM   #122
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I'll agree that if you're shelling out the same cash for either, you should seriously consider an AR. The price advantage in favor of AR magazines is also significant.

I didn't pay near retail for my 580 Mini. I picked it up in a trade for 'substantially less'; essentially 'pawn shop Mini 14' price, way before Obama-Fright drove prices insane.
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Old April 28, 2010, 09:40 PM   #123
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Well, there are better options for almost everything out there. However, the thread was not intended for ar v. mini comparison. Mini should be looked at for what it is, not compared to what other are. I say this because if we talk about AR v. Mini comparison then we can also talk about ar v m14, or ar v aug, or ar v galil, etc.
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Old April 28, 2010, 10:05 PM   #124
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not knocking an AR. they are good rifles. the mini is a solid rifle, that in my opinion is reliable and accurate. so is the AR. does a mini deserve to be in a top 10? yes it does. maybe not yours but there are alot of folks who have one that is argueably in their top 2 or 3. honestly, if i didnt have a ruger i would have an AR. i prefer the ruger. the AR might be more accurate. i think the mini is more reliable. it doesnt bother me what people say about mini's becouse i know its capabilities. mine is actually no.1 on my top 10 list.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:07 AM   #125
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Sarge
That is pretty decent shooting at 215 yards.
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