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Old April 22, 2010, 08:51 AM   #51
nscob
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gas station

One thing is us in Cali can't legally pack.Then I guess we have to be even more anti-social,If you pay some attention it's not paranoia but survival instinct.
I wish we could legally pack some security. Until then we have a small chance of being dinner.

I enjoy most all people,but I love my family and life more, until it gets weird and this OP situation was to me.

Even though the "good old days are gone"people still killed each other for no reason.

What kept this guy from shaking hands and driving off with your arm?
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Old April 22, 2010, 10:04 AM   #52
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpatriot
Peetzakiller, you must live in a truly rare peaceful community if you have never been assaulted or burglarized and no one you know ever has. I grew up in a relatively quiet small town but it had its share of rednecks and I got more than a few beatings as a kid.
Peaceful communities aren't rare. In fact, the except to the rule is violence and danger.

I never said anything about burglaries. I do know of a couple of those, my brother-in-law was "burgled". No violence. It was a business and it was late at night. They came and took what they wanted and left.

"Rednecks"? Sure. We have rednecks. More than our share, actually. The vast majority of them mean you no harm. I find that by not hanging out with people who have violent tendencies, I can generally avoid violence. It's works too. So far, I've gone 34 3/4 years without a violent encounter. As have all of my friends and family. Violent redneck encounters generally take place among rednecks. Meth dealers, dirt track racing types, beer parties in the woods.... avoid those places and those people and those times and you avoid the violence.

"Beating as a kid"? I mean, yeah, we had a few fights back in the school daze, but "beatings"? I kicked a kid in the "nads" that was picking on my sister once..... slammed a kid against a locker.... got put in a headlock, myself, once or twice. I don't think these things are the reasons we carry guns though, especially considering that I was 17 or under and in school for most of these occasions.

You see. If you avoid places, times and people who are stupid, confrontational and/or violent then you tend to avoid violence. All you're left with then is the truly random violence where someone picks you for some reason as a target of opportunity. These events are exceedingly rare. To believe otherwise is to deny reality.
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Old April 22, 2010, 10:57 AM   #53
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Must be an upstate NY thing. I grew up in the suburbs of Western NY... I'd be hard-pressed to name people who'd even had their vehicles broken into, much less gotten into a physical escalation (not counting highschool fights). Verbal altercations in those areas are rare, and physical violence even moreso. It happens, but someone who is seriously evaluating threats on the main street of my hometown (even after midnight) is playing Where's Waldo in the Sistine Chapel.
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:22 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by rattlehead
Must be an upstate NY thing. I grew up in the suburbs of Western NY... I'd be hard-pressed to name people who'd even had their vehicles broken into, much less gotten into a physical escalation (not counting highschool fights). Verbal altercations in those areas are rare, and physical violence even moreso. It happens, but someone who is seriously evaluating threats on the main street of my hometown (even after midnight) is playing Where's Waldo in the Sistine Chapel.

People seem to want to believe that (relatively) safe areas are the exception rather than the rule. In fact, just the opposite is true. While violence can certainly happen anywhere, at any time, the truth is that areas that are truly dangerous are extremely rare and very localized. Certain neighborhoods of certain cities, for example. Even in those cities, outside those neighborhoods, there is very little danger. After all, just a few blocks from those truly dangerous areas there are honest, good, hard working.... and oblivious.... citizens, who go about their lives completely unprepared to respond to violence and the vast majority of them die from disease or accident without having ever encountered a violent situation.

The truth is, even in areas that we would consider to be very unsafe and very violent, the majority of people go through life unarmed and die from heart disease and hypertension far, far, far more often than gunshots or knives. The exceptions are generally those people who choose to be involved with violence in some way and they, well, get what they get.

Don't be one of them.
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:30 AM   #55
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You left your car running......

that is against the law, can afford a computer and a tattoo BUT not a new car battery. Priorities??????
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:39 AM   #56
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that is against the law, can afford a computer and a tattoo BUT not a new car battery. Priorities??????
Not sure if you're just joking around but that's sort of a lame judgment to make, not knowing the guy's situation. Suppose the battery became weak over the course of a few days and he just hadn't replaced it yet?
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:51 AM   #57
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Lame judgment? More like common sense

as in driving a vehicle at night with a questionable battery????
Tattos cost a lot more than a basic battery around these parts and people who have them seem to get into more mischief than us ordinary folks.
Just a factual observation based on the Police website arrest photos.....

I have no Tattos, a good battery, a CC permit and don't strike up body art conversations with strangers while pumping gas or diesel (with my engine turned off and my Airweight in my pocket.)

Guess were I in his shoes, I'd pawn my computer and get a new battery.
(pesky common sense again!)
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:56 AM   #58
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Quote:
as in driving a vehicle at night with a questionable battery????
Tattos cost a lot more than a basic battery around these parts and people who have them seem to get into more mischief than us ordinary folks.
Just a factual observation based on the Police website arrest photos.....

I have no Tattos, a good battery, a CC permit and don't strike up body art conversations with strangers while pumping gas or diesel (with my engine turned off and my Airweight in my pocket.)

Guess were I in his shoes, I'd pawn my computer and get a new battery.
(pesky common sense again!)
Again, you don't know his circumstances so your judgments sound foolish.

Suppose the guns and computer were paid for 10 years ago, you have no idea, suppose again that the battery becoming weak is a recent event and will be replaced as time allows. Lots of people have ten year old computers kicking around, none of which are worth enough to be pawned to buy a new battery.

Again, you don't know so to draw conclusions and judge the guy makes you sound foolish. I don't know the complete circumstances either which is why I don't make such silly judgments (pesky common sense again!).
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Old April 22, 2010, 12:04 PM   #59
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The real focus of the argument here is looking out for yourself. And there are many ways to go about that without being overly rude or overly friendly.

After training several separate martial arts including hand to hand fighting, knife training, and gun training, I will never approach a stranger and offer them anything they are not willing to reciprocate.

In this situation in particular (late night, alone, gas station)
1. If they approach me, and I cannot see their hands, they will not be able to see mine (on knife/gun grip). And I will do my best to keep a distance physically and verbally. There is no way to know if they are approaching you with their hand on a weapon of their own.

2. I will not approach someone in their car while I am on foot. This is one of the most stressful things most LEO's will do in their carreers; approach a pitch-black car cab, alone, at night with no way to know what is on the other side of the door. It takes exactly half a second for them to pull a gun into view, fire while stepping on the gas, and making off with your life. In fact, do yourself and the cop a favor if this happens to you. Turn on your cab light, roll down the window, and keep your hands in view. It will serve extremely well to de-escalate the situation.

3. I will not approach them if they are unwilling to approach me in the above manner. It is far too easy to be drawn into something you had not previously been aware of. (i.e. a friend behind the wall/car) Anything else we can do at a distance, verbally.

I don't think this is paranoid. I'm not preparing myself to kill the other person. I'm simply preparing myself to defend myself if the need arises. That being said, I believe my formal martial arts training, my possession and skill with my firearm, and my acute situational awareness allow me to feel comfortable enough in most situations to be friendly, polite, and lend a hand if I can. Growing up in a rural community, I can't say quite how many times I've pulled over to help change a tire, given someone a ride to a gas station, or helped someone push their car/truck out of the mud; while relying on my senses and skills to alert and protect me if/when I decide something is significantly amuck.

The polite society isn't dead,
But with the freedom of information and news stories these days,
It is significantly more careful.

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Old April 22, 2010, 12:47 PM   #60
Rattlehead
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Quote:
that is against the law, can afford a computer and a tattoo BUT not a new car battery. Priorities??????
Not going to try to put words in the OP's mouth, but the way I read it, the weak battery was an excuse to keep his car running (one he just BS'd up on the spot)...
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Old April 22, 2010, 01:35 PM   #61
BlackFeather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandy
Tattos cost a lot more than a basic battery around these parts and people who have them seem to get into more mischief than us ordinary folks.
Yet another amusing statement. I hate these types of remarks. Appearing weak gets the same attention. Predators want to go for the weak. Ever seen a predator want to go after the big strong member of a herd?

Whether or not this guy was sizing the OP up, he obviously showed something that lead the potential threat to believe it wasn't worth pursuing. Hell, I just wish that happened to me once in a while...
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Old April 22, 2010, 02:19 PM   #62
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Wow, flaming on tattoos now. So I guess that makes me a low lifed, agressive thug then too, right? Guess what, I have tattoos as well. Oh and guess what, I got them a few years ago, they're more than already paid. If my battery were dead today, I could not afford to just run out and replace it; not til Monday.

So I ask to you, Brandy, what is your judgement of me?


And BTW, What is illegal about fueling a vehicle with the engine running? Nothing! With modern vehicles, here is really no reason as to why a person must shut the engine off while fueling.

While yes, 1970 and earlier it would have been a good idea. But back then, everyone was driving around in carborated vehicles with little to no emissions equipment. Yes, if the vehicle was in poor running order it could backfire and start a fire. But very, VERY unlikely these days, with cars 1973+.
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Old April 22, 2010, 04:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
I love it when people roll in here with "the good old days" comments without reading the thread.

The OP was alone at a deserted gas station in the middle of the night... no one else is around. This guy wasn't looking for a friend he was sizing the OP up.
I read the thread. I didnt just "roll in here" either.

He probably should have just shot the guy as soon as he stopped to talk....

Then he would be headed to jail........

I treat folks like I want to be treated, if I find the person isnt a good sort I adjust my attitude towards him. I said it before, used to be folks treated each other like neighbors, why do some feel everyone is the enemy?
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Old April 22, 2010, 05:43 PM   #64
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Quote:
I read the thread. I didnt just "roll in here" either.

He probably should have just shot the guy as soon as he stopped to talk....

Then he would be headed to jail........

I treat folks like I want to be treated, if I find the person isnt a good sort I adjust my attitude towards him. I said it before, used to be folks treated each other like neighbors, why do some feel everyone is the enemy?
You're ignoring the circumstances of this particular incident to make a "good old days" point which frankly is a tired one which seldom has roots in real life. As I said in my post, the circumstances dictate the action. There is a time to be friendly and open with people, the middle of the night in a deserted gas station probably isn't it.

You do what you want though, keep yearning for those good old days, I'll stick with rational thinking and when someone sticks a gun in your face when you're all alone in the middle of the night you can ask them why they are treating you so badly, and where the good old days went.
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Old April 22, 2010, 06:06 PM   #65
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There's a reason you posted your story. You know this was a dangerous situation. You should react on your behalf, not his.
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Old April 22, 2010, 08:06 PM   #66
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The picture of the two guys looking at each other over the counter cracked me up cause that was the attitude I had (the guy standing but 45+ yrs old with skin colored hair on top).

I'm 6' 2" 250 lbs.

I was getting gas 5 minutes from home so I didn't shut off the engine.

No real battery problem. The guy boxed me in as I was preparing to pump.

I did the bare minimum to respond to his questions and shared attention between him and the pump dial. When he bared his forearms I felt it appropriate to respond in kind to keep the conversation lite. I was close to
within arms reach the whole time he sat in the truck talking. Last thing I wanted to do was provoke him but I wasn't fearful and he probably sensed that. By showing my tatoo, I was saying "Yeah big deal you have some tattoos. So do I.". Not a challenge but an equal, so to speak.

No, I didn't even think to pick up his blue ear plugs. That would be submissive and that ain't me.

I posted the question because my wife gave me a hard time because I talked to the guy, and I was looking for a ruling from "the guys" as to whether they thought I was in danger. I think the answer is "yes" and I think that encounter will change the way I prepare for late night activities.
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Old April 22, 2010, 09:15 PM   #67
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to the OP-

I think any scenario that does not result in confrontation or worse is the desired conclusion. BUT..... I find as time goes along and the occurence of petty or worse crime is on the increase in my neck of the woods, I am trying to be more aware of what goes on around me, without surrendering my natural trust of my fellow man. Hard to find a compromise though. Time of day, neighborhood and weird behaviour can instantly change my appreciation for social interaction with strangers. I think over reacting is better than under reacting in most cases, so sorry if i offend you by not pressing the flesh.

Quote:
Here's my list of places where I have no intention of making friends:

1. Gas station, especially late at night.
2. ATM machine
3. Street corner where Begging Bum harrasses people.
4. Public rest rooms.
5. Any parking lot after dark

I could carry more often than I do, and have to agree that the list quoted above is a good start towards recognizing places and times where increased vigilance is warranted. I hope to be more habitual in my carry habit, but here in Ohio we are still prohibited from carrying into restaurants serving alcohol period, which includes even the corner Asian, Mexican and Pizza joints, and that is a real hassle. i often choose to leave the pistol at home rather than leave it in my vehicle.
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:27 PM   #68
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As far as "tats" go.....

take a look at the percentage in jail sporting them vs the general population...... must be cause they're bored looking at cable TV in their cells.
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Old April 23, 2010, 12:04 AM   #69
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I don't think it hurts to talk to someone, but don't get too close.. and always remember exactly where to reach for your gun if you need it...
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Old April 23, 2010, 05:28 AM   #70
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I read through this and there was a couple things I thought of that I didn't see posted. Yeah, the first thing you'd expect was that he was checking you out to see if you'd make a good victim, the OP seemed pretty aware and ready for that if it turned out that way, fortunately it didn't. One thing that nobody mentioned was checking to see if there was another car or a group of guys hanging out down the block that could have been waiting to join him, but that wasn't the case either. The other thing that came to my mind, besides him just being somebody that likes to talk, was that instead of looking for somebody to rob he could have been trying to strike up a conversation and check you out to see if you might be interested in buying some drugs. At any rate, I'm glad everything turned out ok.
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Old April 23, 2010, 12:29 PM   #71
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Well if Tats make the man then the uniforms make the officers. And I've always been told that just because a few turds wear uniforms doesn't indicate that all are bad men.

Thanks for clearing that up for us! It must hurt to be so narrow minded
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Old April 24, 2010, 01:17 AM   #72
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A side note

The gas station encounter was Tuesday night when I left my car running and the east side stranger asked me to turn it off so we could "talk for a minute".

I ended up getting home that night and started the car Wednesday morning and drove 40 minutes to work. Parked the car on the upper 4th deck of the parking structure. Came out Wednesday night and the car wouldn' t start.
Most likely the fusible link or the starter. Had it towed home Wednesday night
after I pushed it down four levels to the street for the flatbed.

Now I think if I would have stopped my car to talk Tuesday night, it may not have started back up with a potential bad guy hanging around. A car is somewhat a reflection of the owner, and I saved the final start for the morning after. The car and I could have "stopped" then and there but good fortune smiled on me.
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Old April 24, 2010, 03:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
As far as "tats" go.....
take a look at the percentage in jail sporting them vs the general population...... must be cause they're bored looking at cable TV in their cells.
Wow, Brandy, I'm amazed by your level of ignorance. Can you please back that up with some data? statisics? No, I don't think you can.

Yes, a lot of criminals and inmates have tattoos. But in no way does the tattooed inmate population outweight the number of law abiding, tattooed citizens across the country.

Oh gee, does that mean that many of our soldiers coming back from the middle east, getting tattoos, that they are criminals, bad men, or a threat?

Think before you speak.
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Old April 24, 2010, 03:57 PM   #74
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The word was

PERCENTAGE...maybe you want to look that up??????
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Old April 24, 2010, 04:57 PM   #75
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Please....
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