The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old April 21, 2010, 12:19 PM   #26
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,762
Quote:
The eyes are the real giveaway and body language speaks volumes. Worth learning to understand if you haven't already.
If you know some good details on what to look for in this regard, I'd think it would be a good read for everybody, myself included.
Skans is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 12:42 PM   #27
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
If you left a baby alone in the woods, it would die. Human beings are societal creatures and need each other. I love helping people! I don't let the propaganda fear machine run my life, I dash right in where Angels fear to tread (I never said I was smart!)

But on the other hand, I've never been killed yet for helping a stranger out. I have walked away from a few, my spidey sense works real well. the remark about body language was spot on. I have always been a big people watcher.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 12:48 PM   #28
TSR80
Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2010
Posts: 65
I've never had a serious burn but I know fire will do it.
__________________
TSR80 - Firmly seated in reality.

Basing conclusions on emotions is like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any damn sense.
TSR80 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 01:29 PM   #29
MK11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2001
Posts: 574
Sounds like a nice guy who's more sociable than the norm.

However, 15 years ago I got mugged when walking toward my hotel by making the very big mistake of shaking hands with somebody who stopped in front of me to ask a question and then held me there while I got flanked by his buddy.

Being polite with your fellow man? Absolutely. Shaking hands with a stranger? Nope. A firm "Sorry, I gotta go" gets you out of there without looking like a jerk.
MK11 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 01:45 PM   #30
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: IN
Posts: 1,721
I would have handled it differently but to each his/her own. I would have gave a one sentence to his initial query. When he asked to talk, I would have told him "Sorry but I'm in a hurry." I would have also been ready to douse the guy with gasoline and keyed his eyes out if I was unarmed, but again that's just me. I would have never shook his hand in the situation you'd described.

An incident happened to me a month ago where as I was getting my mail after dark, a car slowed up the street. As I walked away from my mailbox, the car stopped in front of my house (I immediately reached inside my jacket) and the guy in the car asked for a specific house number. I answered his question with my hand on my revolver. The guy freaked a bit 'cause he knew I was armed by my actions. He thanked me and pulled down the street to the house he was looking for. I yelled out to make sure that he found the house he was looking for as he got out of his car. It was some food delivery guy.

Did I over react? Maybe, but I'd rather judged by my over reaction than a post about me being robbed or worst.
__________________
"With great power, there must also come great responsibility." - Stan Lee

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Last edited by Onward Allusion; April 21, 2010 at 02:40 PM.
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 02:12 PM   #31
DanThaMan1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 395
Don't live life in fear. You did nothing wrong.
DanThaMan1776 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 02:17 PM   #32
TSR80
Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2010
Posts: 65
Quote:
Don't live life in fear. You did nothing wrong.
So everyone who would have done something different is living their life in fear?

Please, what a foolish assertion.

Being cautious at an empty gas station by yourself in the middle of the night does not constitute living your life in fear.
__________________
TSR80 - Firmly seated in reality.

Basing conclusions on emotions is like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any damn sense.
TSR80 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 02:50 PM   #33
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,762
People who have no fear typically make it to the finish line way before the rest of us cowards!
Skans is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 03:45 PM   #34
ClayInTx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,066
Skans, that’s a very good one-liner. Makes sense.
ClayInTx is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 04:19 PM   #35
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
Pretend to be left handed and shake as so. Leaves your strong side clear. I as a personal kick don't shake hands.

Ah hah... I laugh at the comments about his tattoos.
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 04:23 PM   #36
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,967
A smile and a handshake will get you far in life. More so than a rude reply and a brush off.

Used to be we (my age of youth) would gladly talk to another of our age group, now most act like they fear everyone. What has changed?

Be friendly, smile, act like life is real good and others will take note.
markj is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 04:35 PM   #37
TSR80
Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2010
Posts: 65
Quote:
A smile and a handshake will get you far in life. More so than a rude reply and a brush off.

Used to be we (my age of youth) would gladly talk to another of our age group, now most act like they fear everyone. What has changed?

Be friendly, smile, act like life is real good and others will take note.
I love it when people roll in here with "the good old days" comments without reading the thread.

The OP was alone at a deserted gas station in the middle of the night... no one else is around. This guy wasn't looking for a friend he was sizing the OP up.

Had this been noon on Sunday down at the local Costco I'm sure things would have been different... like, some shady thug wouldn't have been sizing the OP up at that hour with a zillion people around.
__________________
TSR80 - Firmly seated in reality.

Basing conclusions on emotions is like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any damn sense.
TSR80 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 04:52 PM   #38
Silent Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2005
Posts: 288
He was probably just drunk or high and feeling friendly, I encounter people like that from time to time. I would have been uncomfortable but not rude, but I would have stayed alert. Rudely trying to blow off a drunk who's just wanting to chat about tattoos or fist-bump or whatever could lead to a confrontation, but I wouldn't let my guard down either and would probably keep a hand near the .45 in my waistband. I believe in the saying, and I'm sure I'm paraphrasing, "Be courteous, be polite, but always have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
Silent Bob is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 05:18 PM   #39
N.H. Yankee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2004
Location: Rural N.H.
Posts: 1,586
I never let the gas tank go below 1/2 tank, one never knows what can happen at any time. I also fill mine during hours when there's plenty of light and people. I try not to be standoffish to people and try to evaluate each encounter in accordance to time of day or night, where I am, if I'm alone, and the persons general demeanor. There are no guarantees even if you do everything right, living is a risk, we just have to do the best we can to minimize the element of risk.

Granted your encounter was a bit odd and perhaps you were just being sized up, but it could have been an innocent encounter. Who knows, perhaps your telling your battery was in poor condition may have saved you from a car jacking. I am suspicious of those who overly try to act like your best friend in the world in 10 minutes or less. Sadly it seems today more people than not have some kind of agenda, the old days of a handshake contract are OVER!
__________________
The real danger to America is not abroad but within..
Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out!
Save America, abort liberalism.
N.H. Yankee is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 06:36 PM   #40
ncpatriot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 350
Peetzakiller, you must live in a truly rare peaceful community if you have never been assaulted or burglarized and no one you know ever has. I grew up in a relatively quiet small town but it had its share of rednecks and I got more than a few beatings as a kid. As an adult, I had a drunk neighbor break a window on my door, had another apartment burglarized, the store I managed was burglarized, a friend and I were attacked by 2 teenagers we refused to buy beer for. My mother in law, living on a quiet farm, was assaulted by a crazy neighbor. Last year, we were taking our daughters somewhere and saw a murder victim near a fishing spot on a river. I hated my 8 and 12 year old seeing that; a 17 year old girl, killed by her mom's boyfriend.

In spite of all this, I agree that we shouldn't become paranoid and lock ourselves away. I have conversations with strangers all the time and most are ok. But we have to be aware of evil and keep 1 eye open for it. Sounds like the guy in the truck was likely high and a bit silly, but he could easily have been prepping our friend for an unpleasant surprise. I still wonder if he saw a cop driving by on the street and aborted his plan. Some places and times are not conducive to letting our guard down. Late night at a gas station is one of them. We had a clerk killed a few years ago at an all night station just a few miles away, about 3:00 AM. I had gone to that same station at all hours of night/morning after late night service calls. Different timing and I would have walked in on it. Last year, 5 or 6 businesses in a 2-3 mile area were robbed, all places where we do business.

I'm glad for you that you've never been bothered, you must truly have good people around you. But don't be surprised if and when a situation develops.
ncpatriot is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 07:33 PM   #41
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Made me think I should have been better prepared as I only had my car keys.
That's one of the reasons I never leave the house without a gun, even to check the mail box. I wished a few times in my younger days I'd been better prepared.
__________________
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.
Standing Wolf is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 07:33 PM   #42
qcpunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Farmsville, AZ
Posts: 305
I think it's all too easy to try and Armchair QB this situation. We all have our opinions as to what was right and wrong about the situation, and what we would have done differently ourselves.

In my own opinion, I think the situation was handled well.

Now, I don't have any idea what kind of neighborhood you were in, nor was I there my self.

That said, It seems like you were actively aware of every move the guy was making, and every word he said. That, to me, shows situational awareness. It sounds like you were on High Alert, but realized that no action was warranted yet. The fact that you had no other items for defense, other than your body and keys, was probably not a good call from the begining; but hind-sight is 20/20. With the exception of little defensive equipment, it sounds like you would have been ready to react had the sitiuation gone bad. Besides, a gun is not the only means of SD, you would have had, readily available, the gas nozzel spraying gas, your keys, your body, the window squeegie, trash can, and/or maybe a pen. When a situation like this starts developing and you are unarmed, it's important to start scanning around you to see what you can use to your advantage.

Other than being less-than-equipped, all is well that ends well as the story goes.
__________________
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." --Abraham Lincoln
qcpunk is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 08:06 PM   #43
nathaniel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 600
In my rual community you get that all the time, ALMOST everyone is an honest citizen here. Dont get me wrong there are the "thugs" or "gansters" but most of them stay away from my pickup. It could be the fact that I have a wndow sticker that says "DPMS Panther Arms" or it could be the fact that there is a Benelli and a Puma Model 92 in the back window(I'm a farm boy I've always had guns in my windows). But you did get a little too close for my tastes, I dont shake hands with strangers and if I do I have my other thumb hooked in my pocket where they cant see my pocket clip on my Gerber.
nathaniel is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 09:25 PM   #44
Hook686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2005
Location: USA The Great State of California
Posts: 1,916
Quote:
I personally think it is a bit presumptuous, if not outright rude, to ask someone to inconvenience themselves to do me a favor. Like someone else said, if I am asking directions, I do it in a polite way rather than asking someone to stop what they are doing and come to my car so I don't have to bother getting out to accept their assistance.
My father always told me, 'Life is tough, and then you die,'

Must be true. I am a disabled Vietnam era veteran. When I am lost, I pull into a gas station, along side a curb, into a 7-11 parking lot, ..., signal someone to my window in order to ask directions. It never occurred to me that I was being impolite. I guess I better watch that I don't get shot next time. I guess ....
__________________
Hook686

When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.
Hook686 is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 10:36 PM   #45
juno
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2009
Posts: 11
So he dropped the ear inserts on the ground and then looked at your tattoo? Did he just leave them there? That part is bizarre....
juno is offline  
Old April 21, 2010, 10:46 PM   #46
FORKLIFT352
Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2009
Posts: 29
To the OP...Sounds like the friendly side of........METH!!!!!!!
FORKLIFT352 is offline  
Old April 22, 2010, 07:39 AM   #47
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,972
Hook686:

Quote:
I guess I better watch that I don't get shot next time.
First, I didn't say that I shoot people for being impolite. I re-read my post to see what I could possibly have written that you could have misinterpreted in that way, and I just don't see it.

Second, my bet is that you don't just imperiously call people over and expect them to obey. I imagine, rather, that you call out something like, "Excuse me, may I ask you for some directions?" You might even add something about why you can't get out of your car. And I'll even bet that you say "thank you" without demanding that people approach your car and make themselves vulnerable.

If you don't handle it that way, you may expect me to give you directions from a distance, and you may not expect me to engage in any long conversations, answer any personal questions, approach your car, or give you my hand. I am sorry if that offends you, but I do not go through life thinking that every stranger is trustworthy.

Things can change in the telling, of course, but the way the OP told the story it didn't sound like a good situation and I don't blame him for being on the alert. It kind of amazes me how often we respond to posts by saying, "With good situational awareness, you wouldn't have been in trouble," and then with the next breath criticize people for being on the alert - not drawing, brandishing, or shooting, just being on alert - when something doesn't feel right.

Last edited by TailGator; April 22, 2010 at 07:49 AM.
TailGator is offline  
Old April 22, 2010, 07:56 AM   #48
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,762
Quote:
He was probably just drunk or high and feeling friendly....
Well, I've got a real problem with "drunk" or "high" folks driving around striking up conversations with folks minding their own business pumping gas. If I knew that to be the case, that'd be enough for me to get down right mean with the guy. I've got no tolerance for drunk and stoned folks just cruising around in their vans.

In any event, I seriously doubt he was just some drunk-stoned friendly guy making small talk. The bottom line - I wouldn't shake the guy's hand and I wouldn't go over to his van. If I thought he was drunk or stoned, that would be more reason for me to unlock my gun from the glove box and start to leave.
Skans is offline  
Old April 22, 2010, 08:32 AM   #49
uspJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2010
Posts: 10
op-

i don't feel you did anything wrong. i would have been put on alert by him asking me turn off my truck. i would not have had a problem walking over to his vehicle because i would have the advantage of movement should things turn sour.

i helped a guy and his friends work on their car at 2:30 am at a gas station one night, the guys were parked on the side of the store away from the view of the employees and most of the patrons. i was pumping gas and saw the guys trying to start the car with the hood up. i went inside and payed for my gas, on the way out they asked me if i had a flashlight or any tools. i told them to wait there and pulled my car next to theirs and helped them get the car running. these guys were dressed like what many here would refer to as thugs. they were wearing baggy clothes, one had a gold grille in his mouth and they were all wearing the same color shirts and had tattoos. they were polite and thanked me for the help and offered to pay me, i told them no thanks and that if they ever see me broke down on the side of the road to remember me.

the entire time all of this was happenig i was armed, and vigilant of their actions and mannerisms. i could have easily told the guys i had no tools to help and been on my way. at no time did i feel in any danger, i never let my guard down around them. if i had gotten a bad vibe from them i never would have helped them.

i'm not type of person who lives in fear of every stranger they run across (that doesn't mean i trust them), i carry a gun daily and train regulary so that if things ever take a turn for the worst i have the tools to get me out of there.

all of the guys talking about how the guy was trying to intimidate you by showing his tats cracks me up. people with tattoos are a dime a dozen these days, maybe he saw the tat on your arm and figured you may know where the local shop is. i have several visable tattoos and have people comment on them often (ask where i get my work done?, how much did it cost?, did it hurt? etc. etc.).
uspJ is offline  
Old April 22, 2010, 08:45 AM   #50
TSR80
Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2010
Posts: 65
I don't find tats intimidating in and of themselves, they aren't an indicator of a violent person IMO even though some people do get them for that expressed purpose, to intimidate and tell people "don't cross me" without having to say it. In fact, they are a growing number of people in that community that are on the complete opposite of the gun issue as we are. There is a kid who works in the mail room at the office who is covered neck down in tats, chest, back, both arms from his shoulders to his wrists but you would never know because he wears a button up shirt and tie to work. Nice kid but he's an anti-gunner for sure, drives a scooter.
__________________
TSR80 - Firmly seated in reality.

Basing conclusions on emotions is like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any damn sense.
TSR80 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12873 seconds with 7 queries