The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 25, 2010, 08:38 PM   #1
KMO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2008
Location: Northern Arizona
Posts: 938
AZ to Drop CCW Permit Requirement

It appears a bill will pass both AZ legislative bodies and head for our governor's signature. If signed (expected), Arizona will join Alaska & Vermont as the only 3 states to allow concealed carry by adults, without requiring a permit to do so.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...bill-3-25-2010
__________________
"In God We Trust"

www.SunflowerAmmo.com
www.Mo-Rod.com
KMO is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 08:54 PM   #2
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,794
Yeah. I live in Arizona and I am not sure this is a good idea. The class does a pretty good job of informing you that breaking the shot at some one is just the BEGINNING of some very long and expensive legal hassle.

There are times when shooting another person is justified but one had best be prepared for the legal consequences of such an action.
geetarman is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 09:07 PM   #3
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
I live in Arizona and I am not sure this is a good idea.
Would you like to see a requirement that people take a class before buying books, joining a church, or publishing thoughts on the internet? Is the right to keep and bear arms somehow different from our other rights?

There are no rights without responsibilities. It's up to everyone who owns guns to become familiar with the laws pertaining to firearms.

Speaking strictly as an NRA-certified instructor and CCW instructor: yes, classes are a worthy investment, but that's up to each individual gun owner to decide, not government.

My hat's off to the good people of Arizona for showing other states the way!
__________________
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.
Standing Wolf is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 09:14 PM   #4
n7qvu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2009
Location: Overgaard, AZ USA
Posts: 153
Interested how this article is worded:
"Concealed Weapons Bill Heads to Governor"
Only goes to gov 'after' senate has approved, as stated in lower section of article.

Also interesting comment:
"But the new bill will allow any Arizona resident over 21 to carry a concealed weapon, and they wouldn't have to take the training classes currently required."
I really doubt that "ANY" AZ resident can carry. I would guess there are a few felons that would hope that is true.

My 2 cents..
__________________
Jerry W.
NRA Instructor: Pistol, Home Safety, Personal Protection, RSO, Reloading.
NRA Life Member, NRA-ILA Sustaining Member, AZ CCW training org. & instructor, AZ HE instructor.
JWsGUNs.com FFL-07, NFA SOT-C2.
n7qvu is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 09:19 PM   #5
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,853
I am an AZ resident, and I like it.
__________________
http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.
armoredman is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 09:35 PM   #6
Yankee Traveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 17, 2008
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 232
There are pro's and con's to everything.
Not being "required" to have a permit does not insinuate that the state will not issue one.
Vermont does not issue a permit. There are many states that will honor another states permit, but the law says you must be a resident of the state issueing the permit. As VT does not issue one, SOL...Whereas a Tennessee permit is welcomed in the majority of states...
Yankee Traveler is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 10:29 PM   #7
KMO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2008
Location: Northern Arizona
Posts: 938
I'll be curious to see how this plays out. Interestingly, this is not the first time this has been introduced. The last time, the bill was approved by our state house & senate, and then vetoed by...none other than Janet Napolitano, our current Homeland Security Head. Hope she doesn't come back...
__________________
"In God We Trust"

www.SunflowerAmmo.com
www.Mo-Rod.com
KMO is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 11:10 PM   #8
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,853
Nappy is gone, and we certainly wish her the best of luck in finding a job after Obama leaves office...anywhere but in AZ.
__________________
http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.
armoredman is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 01:27 AM   #9
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
I hope they continue to offer permits anyway, so that reciprocity will be possible for AZ residents.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 08:31 AM   #10
tet4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2009
Posts: 232
I certainly want to see it happen as it will most like start a trend to allow Vermont carry in many, many more states, and that's a good thing.

The best argument for this, other than the argument that criminalizing the possession of legal objects is immoral because is punishes someone for not actually harming someone else, is this: with a permit system, there is always a delay in the time you want to carry vs actually being allowed to carry. Now, other than idealogical enlightenment, one of the main reasons people decide they need to carry is because of a threat, and what good is a permit if you can't get it while you are being stocked or weird thing are happening in your neighborhood? If you need a gun, you need one RIGHT NOW, and that's why Vermont carry is really the only way to go.

Now, I'm all for having the state government do everything to promote classes and education, but in my book, allowing someone to exercise their God given rights when they need it the most trumps any type of mandated training and licensing.

That, and the fact that blood isn't running the streets of Vermont... if it were such a bad idea, we would have heard why by now.
tet4 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 08:44 AM   #11
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 1,801
I am very happy for them.

- I must ask though, if someone is not a resident of AZ or even the US, are they allowed to carry also?

- Will there be a licesnce to allow CCW out of state? Say of someone leaves AZ and goes to CA to visit? Not that anyone would ever want to do that....
__________________
Proxima est Mors, Malum Nullum adhibit Misericordiam
MTT TL is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 09:09 AM   #12
tet4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2009
Posts: 232
My understanding is that the permit system will still be available. All this bill does is decriminalize the possession of a hand gun on your person (and maybe in your car? I think it covers that too but not 100% sure).
tet4 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 09:47 AM   #13
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
And another point to consider is that without a permit, the 1000' Federal School Zone prohibition will apply. Although nobody has ever been prosecuted under the statute since it was re-instated in 1996.
NavyLT is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 11:26 AM   #14
AJG
Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 86
Nice but not God given

I'm not a AZ resident.. but good for ya'll. I just hope as Standing Wolf says, the people take the ability to do so responsibly, educate themselves and provide a good foundation for the other states that try the same.


Owning & Carrying a gun is not a God Given Right.... God given rights are life liberty and the persuit of happiness. Of course you can place owning and carrying a gun under liberty or the pursuit of happyness... but...
To identify a right as “god-given,” we need an action, a commandment, or a declaration, that clearly comes straight from god. And, such action, commandment or declaration should be so obvious and so undeniable that everyone will understand it – the dim-witted as well as the intelligent; the believer as well as the non-believer. What we need is a giant chariot, or sailing ship to appear in the sky all over the world at the same time. It will come to a halt and god will step out and stand in mid air; he will open his mouth and say, “Hear ye, hear ye, all men of all lands and all tongues (he will speak so that all men will understand), I am Zeus (Marduk, Budda, Ishstar – take your pick); I am the god(s) of the universe and I hereby declare that the following rights are granted by me to you.” He then would enumerate all such rights he wants men to have. Then he (or she) would tell you where to pay your taxes, previously called “sin offerings” – and about all the terrible things that would happen to you if you didn’t pay them.

Since these would be god-given rights; and since god is all powerful and all knowing, he would also declare that, if any of these rights are violated, the wrong-doer would be instantly, and automatically, punished. For it would make no sense for a god – who has the power to grant rights – to fail to also provide automatic remedies where a right is violated. You see, if this god granted rights, anyone who violated them would commit an offense against god as well as the life, liberty or property of a particular individual – and god would want instant and easy vindication.

but I digress... AZ congrats if passed!
AJG is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 04:39 PM   #15
tet4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2009
Posts: 232
Quote:
Owning & Carrying a gun is not a God Given Right.... God given rights are life liberty and the persuit of happiness.
The right to self defense is one of the most fundamental human rights - it's paramount to the preservation of life (and liberty). It's hard to argue that someone can't carry one of the most effective means to self defense, and the idea that you need permission if you are a law abiding citizen runs counter to the idea of fundamental rights in the US (or at least it should).

Last edited by tet4; March 26, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
tet4 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 04:47 PM   #16
Dragon55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 811
Now.....

If you're an AZ, AK, or VT resident that carries and you want to visit another state that is shall issue.......... how does that work????????

For instance..... if you visit TN which recognizes a boatload of other states permits would you be OK to carry??

I would say not so that is a small problem for some
__________________
sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W
Dragon55 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 05:00 PM   #17
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,835
Doesn't Alaska have a permit you can get for such out of state visits.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 05:05 PM   #18
sonick808
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 396
I was a bit skittish at first, but it's true that felons carry anyway, and those who would behave poorly will eventually commit felonies or weed themselves out somehow.

AZ resident in full favor here as well.

I'd not be surprised to see crime drop

I still like having the permit for reciprocity in traveling, aiding in perception by officers if needed (let's be honest, every little bit helps if something happens), and especially so i don't have to mess with the NICS everytime i buy a new firearm. 4473 is filled out and immediately filed, I pay and leave. No waiting.
sonick808 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 05:10 PM   #19
foghorn leghorn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2010
Location: In a Van down by the River
Posts: 181
Im a part time Cochise County resident, and I already conceal carry without a permit.
There's nothing up here but me, a roadrunner, and the ghost of Geronimo.
The visitors we get are almost always expected, and they're armed as well.

We haven't shot anybody lately...
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Liberate America... Free the Republic
-NRA Life Member-
foghorn leghorn is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 05:15 PM   #20
Dragon55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 811
Glenn.... and others

I looked on Tennessee.gov and..........

Apparently we have reciprocity with AK and AZ(under current law).

Also, many states recognize TN permits although we're not reciprocal.
Vermont is one of these.

So.... there must be a piece of paper for Alaskans to carry when out of state.
And........ sorry Vermont apparently you recognize our TN carry permits but I don't think we do whatever it is you all have.
__________________
sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W
Dragon55 is offline  
Old March 27, 2010, 12:07 AM   #21
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
Glen is right. These 'no permit needed states" issue licenses for those that want them for this very purpose. The standard for getting licenses in these states must be sufficiently high to qualify for reciprocity in many states.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old March 27, 2010, 02:41 AM   #22
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,328
Vermont doesn't "recognize" a TN permit. Anybody with no criminal record can pack in VT without a permit, period, doesn't matter what state they're from.

AZ will be the same way. Visitors from Cali or wherever will be able to pack.

Green card holders too, from wherever.

LEGAL visitors from other nations, I'm not sure about to be honest. They can't buy guns per fed rules, but I don't know if it would be legal for them to borrow one. I intend to find out. It would be kinda cool to have a visiting friend from England realize that the whole place is basically awash in guns, and offer them a loaner .
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is online now  
Old March 27, 2010, 07:52 AM   #23
KMO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2008
Location: Northern Arizona
Posts: 938
I received an email response to my questions about the new bill from the writer and sponsor of the bill, State Senator Russell Pearce. It was a very cordial email message, and it included a line that stated, "Yes, a CCW permit will still be offered to those that want one." This was the only reassuring response I received from anyone I contacted. If accurate, AZ will continue to offer a CCW permit, specifically for those who need to use it in other states. I was worried, but I guess they thought of this beforehand after all.
__________________
"In God We Trust"

www.SunflowerAmmo.com
www.Mo-Rod.com
KMO is offline  
Old March 27, 2010, 03:02 PM   #24
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,328
Yeah, same thing Alaska did. Plus it means the current permitholders (like me) aren't screwed, we get *something* for the $180 I spent altogether.
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is online now  
Old March 28, 2010, 10:30 PM   #25
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,853
$180? Ouch...
Gov got the changes she wants, Senate votes Third Read tomorrow, then the House, then to Gov Brewers desk. I think we might win this one.

Got a few other good bills going through, too. We make our laws a little bit better each year...
__________________
http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.
armoredman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.17490 seconds with 9 queries