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Old April 16, 2010, 06:32 PM   #1
troy_mclure
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Cap and ball revolver accessories?

I just picked up a used euroarms new model army .44 cap and ball revolver.(got it at a flee market for $75)

What are some good accessories for this gun?

What kind of powder measure/dispenser is good so i dont have to measure out every load with a spoon and small powder measure?

Good caper that will work on revolvers?

Good nipple wrench?

Any other goodies i need?

Also i bought some .445 balls(all i could find). they seem a touch small. what size should i look for?

Also(again) what is a good load for this gun(pyrodex/black powder)?
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Old April 16, 2010, 07:00 PM   #2
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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Well for starters, your revolver is a 45 and you should use .454 balls in it.
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Old April 16, 2010, 07:32 PM   #3
zippy13
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What are some good accessories for this gun?
You might look into a loading stand.
What kind of powder measure/dispenser is good so i dont have to measure out every load with a spoon and small powder measure?
Typically you'll use a dipper and a funnel. Loading form a flask can be a hazard. I make custom dippers with an integral spout that is faster than using a funnel. Another option is to pre-measure your revolver loads. I make charges from cigarette papers -- two per paper if you get king size. The paper has the the powder and wad in one package. Insert in the cylinder, put a drop of lube on the wad and you're ready for bullet or ball. Then prick the paper before you cap.
Good caper that will work on revolvers?
A good caper may be hard to find since the nature of the New Army cylinder design crowds the nipple area. To get a caper to work, you may have to rework the cylinder.

Good nipple wrench?
I was just looking for one for my neighbor's new M-1858. Cabellas wants too much $$$ and Dixie's are brittle. MidwayUSA has a C/V unit with a built-in prick for $5 that looks promising.
Any other goodies i need?
Lube and cleaning gear and some basic tools. I usually take some water bottles (with a little soap in them) and shop towels to the range. Keep the clear bottles in the sun and you'll have hot soapy water to clean up your fouling.
Also i bought some .445 balls(all i could find). they seem a touch small. what size should i look for?
.454 not .445
Also(again) what is a good load for this gun(pyrodex/black powder)
In my area it comes down to what's available in the LGSs. Pyrodex P, fffG BP and Tripple-7 fffG all work. BP is the most accurate, but dirty.
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Old April 16, 2010, 08:44 PM   #4
Andy Griffith
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I'd recommend buying one tube of "bore butter" or similar lube packaged by Thompson Center or Traditions or CVA so you can carry a good amount of lube to the range conveniently. After you use up the lube, you can always refill it with crisco that has just barely melted. Of course you can always do this with a old tube of toothpaste, or buy a nice brass grease holder from Dixie.

Also, I've never had good luck with cappers when using them on factory nipples. It's best just to put them on by hand- so you can pinch them a bit to keep them on the nipples a bit more snugly.

I do like flasks simply because you can carry only a fraction of the amount of a full can, and in that way they are safer and much more handily carried.

If you want a superb nipple wrench, the best one is from the Possible Shop:
http://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipple-wrench.html
It won't strip like the soft metal in most "period" wrenches and will help loosen the most stubborn nipples.

Real black powder is a good choice to start with, but any of the substitutes will work well too.
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Last edited by Andy Griffith; April 16, 2010 at 08:49 PM.
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Old April 16, 2010, 10:11 PM   #5
PetahW
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Have you completely read the sticky (So you want a cap 'n ball revolver ?), at the top of this section ?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207028

From it, you should be able to pull out what fits your needs.

To quote only one small part:

"To keep everything together, buy a large fishing box with plenty of compartments. As time goes by, you'll find yourself adding more items and gadgets to the box. You may also buy other revolvers in different calibers, each requiring their own wads, balls and caps.
Aside from caps, balls, lubricants, wads and powder add the following to your box:
Small notebook and pencils.
Push-tacks for targets.
Fine-tip felt pen for writing on targets you wish to keep. The felt tip shows up better.
Screwdrivers.
Length of wooden dowel, to tap out a stuck bullet. For the .36-caliber, use 5/16 dowel. For the .44, use 7/16 dowel.
Small brass mallet.
Plenty of pre-cut patches for cleaning.
1/8" brass rod, about 5 inches long. If you get a ball stuck in a chamber without powder, remove the cylinder from the revolver and the nipple behind the stuck ball. Insert the brass rod where the nipple was and tap out the ball.
Small spray bottle of soapy water for quick swabbing.
Masking tape and black electrician's tape or target pasters.
Q-Tips and pipe cleaners.
Nipple wrench.
Various powder measures. Lee makes a dipper set that is very good. I have an excellent pistol measure that adjusts from 10 to 30 grains in 1-grain increments. Alas, I can't remember who made it.
Good-sized rag to wipe hands.
Pistol loading stand.
New nipples, set of six. I always replace nipples as a set. This way, if one starts to go bad I can figure the others are not far behind.
White grease pencil, to number chambers on the cylinder. This can show you which chamber is the most accurate or bothersome at the range, yet it's not a permanent marking. White grease pencils are found in stationery stores. They're often used to mark the back of china plates, and such.
Sight Black by Birchwood Casey. This spray-can puts a thin layer of jet-black carbon on your sights. This is particularly useful on Colt revolvers with their brass bead that glares in the sun. Sight Black is easily rubbed or washed off.
Film container to put scrap lead in. I save my lead shavings and any recovered balls for the melting pot. Stingy me, I know!
Spare parts such as mainspring, trigger spring, screws, wedge and so on. This can save you weeks of waiting for a new part.
"

.
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Old April 18, 2010, 12:22 PM   #6
LeMat1856
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.
.

hi and welcome to the world of black powder.

i'll recommend two items, both are books, that can be had from ebay or alibris or amazon used for a fraction of new ones:

1) "the complete blackpowder handbook" by sam fadala (accept no substitutes)

-50 or so chapters with lots and lots of pictures, short easy to read paragraphs, and written by a 'hands on' author in a user-friendly, relaxed style.


2) "percussion pistols and revolvers: history, performance, and practical use" by johnny bates and mike cumpston

-26 chapters with lots of pictures covering caplock pistols, revolvers, and their development, actual test results from the authors comparing original black powder vs. substitutes in a variety of calibers and loads, how to disassemble and reassemble these firearms, and even 'the irish code' of proper etiquette for dueling in the 1800's (just in case you might need it).

there are others like lymans blackpowder handbook (2nd edition) but these two should answer just about anything and everything you will need for starters.. i got them just after purchasing my first revolver and, without exaggeration, the pages are wearing thin from use.

hope that helps,

~d~
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Old April 18, 2010, 02:42 PM   #7
Doc Hoy
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I'm with Andy

I like flasks and am not terribly concerned about the safety hazards that trouble some folks. I have never heard of one blowing up and I think if one ever had blown up, it would be well publicized. I could be wrong and I encourage each user to let his caution guide his behavior. I don't disagree with others, I just don't happen to agree with them either. I like the CVA 1400 brass flask. Don't pay full price. Just lurk in the shadows of eBay and wait for one to sell for about 15.00. Look out for the outrageous shipping charges hidden in some of the auctions. On eBay and Gunbroker, the charletons abound.

I like to keep caps in those small plastic medicine containers. The tops stay on real tight and they are a nice usable size. I take them out of the tins and discard the tins as quick as I get them home. I would rather have a sister working in a brothel than have to mess with those idiotic cap tins.

I also like to use the plastic tubs that Chinese take-out comes in. The joint around the corner uses three sizes. The small size is just under a cup in volume. That is a good size for a hundred round balls. Put in about a teaspoon of bore lube, shake it around and, Viola!....Lubed balls. The middle size is just more than one cup. That is good for bulk bore lube. The largest size isn't good for anything but Wonton Soup.

I used to use popcicle sticks for schmootzing the chambers with bore lube. But when I went shooting today I realized that I did not have any. So I flattened the end of a 3/8 dowel and I think I like it pretty good. Nice thing about this tool is that I trowel in the lube with the flat end and then force it into the chamber with the round end.

I also made a little tweezers for grabbing the lubed balls and putting them onto the chambers.

Photo attached is the two things I made. I'll make you a pair for five cents and $52.00 in shipping.






Just kidding.....Send me your address in a Personal Message and I'll mail you a set if you want them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tweezersandstick.jpg (246.2 KB, 79 views)
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Old April 18, 2010, 02:46 PM   #8
Doc Hoy
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Oh! Don't forget the most important thing!

Hearing protection....and if you don't wear glasses...Eye protection.
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Old April 19, 2010, 07:05 AM   #9
mykeal
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Quote:
I like flasks and am not terribly concerned about the safety hazards that trouble some folks. I have never heard of one blowing up and I think if one ever had blown up, it would be well publicized.
I've not only heard of it, I've witnessed it. It's very rare, fortunately, but it happens.
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Old April 19, 2010, 01:06 PM   #10
Doc Hoy
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Mykeal

Can you share some of the details?

How did it happen?

What kind of weapon?

What was the effect? (Not interested in sensationalism...Just some useful facts.)

Did a lawsuit result?

Other tidbits?
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Old April 19, 2010, 01:20 PM   #11
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"Boy Injured in a Powder Explosion"

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=5316,325885

Kids were kids a hundred years ago. "I wonder what would happen if..."
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Old April 19, 2010, 01:57 PM   #12
Doc Hoy
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HC

Right...I read that one too. The injuries appeared from the report to have been substantial which is no surprise.
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Old April 19, 2010, 08:51 PM   #13
bedbugbilly
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troy . . . welcome . . welcome . .. welcome!

These guys have all done an excellent job in their advice as to what you'll need . . . . . but . . . . I'm a little disappointed that none of them mentioned the most importqant aqccessory. The blonde . . . . nobody mentioned the blonde! It helps to have an attractive one to carry your pistol and all of your gear to and from the range for you . . . . seriously!
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Old April 19, 2010, 09:03 PM   #14
ClemBert
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Pictures are worth 1000 words so here are 3000 words with less typing. It was easier for me to just open up my BP carry kit, pull everything out, and take a pic and post it here.



If you have any questions about what you are looking at let me know. The wood box on the upper right is my powder magazine. It holds loose powder, lead balls, caps, powder scoop, powder measure, and a wood dowel for setting caps if necessary. The powder magazine obviously doesn't fit into the tackle box. The grey plastic box is a fishing box from Walmart. It has a pull out top tray.





p.s. The sheriff's badge makes me shoot straighter.
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Old April 19, 2010, 09:24 PM   #15
Hawg
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Quote:
I like flasks and am not terribly concerned about the safety hazards that trouble some folks.
All it takes is one spark and the spring loaded spout wont keep it from reaching the powder supply. Now look at that heavy brass CVA flask and think about the 1/4 pound or so of powder igniting in your hand. Why take a chance?
No returns, no refunds, no redeals. Just poof and a cloud of white smoke and red spray.
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Old April 19, 2010, 11:08 PM   #16
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Reply to Doc

Many years ago, in the early 70's I think, when I was just getting into this addiction, I was at the local gravel pit/shooting range (we were living in KS at the time) with a friend, trying out a bp revolver he'd just bought. There was at least one other group of shooters (may have been a couple of groups, about 5 or 6 people altogether) near us that had bp long rifles. We chatted a little during the cease fires but we didn't know them, nor did they know us.

I recall hearing a loud bang, much louder than any of our guns had made, followed by a loud whooshing sound. I saw a plume of smoke and a red hot glow at the peak. I looked a the source of the plume and saw one of the long rifle shooters fall to the ground and his rifle bouncing on it's side in the gravel.

We rushed over and found the shooter dazed and incoherent. His face was reddened with soot marks and his eyebrows looked burned. His hair had also been burned. One arm and hand had second and perhaps third degree burns and his shirt was burned away in pieces. His friends loaded him in a car saying they'd take him to the hospital and sped away. While they were doing that one friend told us that he'd been pouring powder down the bore of his rifle directly from a copper flask when the flask suddenly ignited.

He had no shrapnel wounds, and we recovered what was left of the flask and found it split in two (still in one piece) but no missing chunks of metal. The cap and spout were nowhere to be found.

I have no idea what happened to the shooter; I never saw him again that I know of. I don't know how serious his wounds were or if any other action was taken as a result of the incident. It did not make the local paper, which wasn't unusual as gun accidents were considered a personal problem in those days in KS.
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Old April 20, 2010, 01:45 AM   #17
Doc Hoy
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Troy,

Hawg and Mykeal have been doing this longer than I have. Hawg is right when he says the explosion of a flask in your hand is not the kind of event that lends itself to a redo.

I admit that my attitude toward the issue is a little odd when you consider how careful I am with other aspects of shooting. I don't shoot with others partially because I think two people is twice as dangerous as one. Had I witnessed it as Mykeal describes I might do things differently. I don't see the use of a flask as foolhearty but I can't explain why. Who knows? Maybe from now on, I will swab out the chambers each time I fire them and before I reload. This would not be the first time I learned something from Hawg or Mykeal...which is the most important thing about this forum.

So you, as a new-to-black-powder guy inquired about accessories and I said that I use a flask and pour the powder directly into the chamber including a chamber which has been fired five minutes ago. If you decide to do that as well, do so only after you understand completely what can happen and how to do it in a way that reduces the risks.
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Old April 20, 2010, 10:52 AM   #18
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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I have shot at quite a few different ranges in the past 35 years, and loading
a revolver from a flask is a safty no-no. If the range officer saw you do this.
you would get a warning. Second time you would be escorted off the range.
That flask is really a bomb in your hand. So is a powder horn. Keep Safe!
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Old April 20, 2010, 11:57 AM   #19
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Back in the late '60s, I was at a public range where they segregated the BP shooters to one end of the firing line. The stranger next to me was shooting flint pistols. After loading, he failed to put the lid back on his tin of DuPont's FFFFG. With his next shot, a spark from the pan did a Hail Mary right into the open can. Instantly, there was a ferocious vertical jet of bright fire, accompanied buy a loud whoooosh and a cloud of smoke. Thankfully, there was no injury to person (except for the shooter's pride) nor property. The event still keeps me aware of BP's volatility and reminds me to keep my powder covered.
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Old April 20, 2010, 12:12 PM   #20
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I agree zippy. It is important to close up any BP containers before shooting. I typically close my powder tin and close the wood box. To do otherwise would be asking for it. I'm not a big fan of flasks either and doubt I'd ever own one except as a decoration.

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Old April 20, 2010, 12:24 PM   #21
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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This is what I use, and most shooters at Friendship use. It goes in the powder
can, and you just pick it up and pour into your charger. When you set it down
the can is auto closed.
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Old April 20, 2010, 12:30 PM   #22
zippy13
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ClemBert, thanks for your observations and the pics of your BP kit. It's all so neat, clean and tidy.
I kept thinking, there's something missing in those pics, then it came to me: Where are the towels, rags and other cleaning gear necessary to keep you and the guns up and running?
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Old April 20, 2010, 12:37 PM   #23
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For the most part what you see is what I use. I typically bring a hand towel along but rarely use it. As I use lubricated Wonder Wads I avoid bore butter, crisco, grease, et al and therefore have a less messy experience. The lubricated wads work great and generally don't have binding issues. I never figured out why some folks are insistent on covering the ball with messy goo when lubricated wads work so well.
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Old April 20, 2010, 01:35 PM   #24
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As Ronald Reagan always said, "Well...."

Guys,

I really am out-voted on the flask issue. I am going to continue and I hope you don't read about me or see the flash. If you suddenly stop seeing my posts without explanation, you may infer what happened.


But I will stop recommending flasks for others.
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Old April 20, 2010, 05:41 PM   #25
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Splitting a hair here, please indulge me....

I'm not against the use of a flask; I have and use them myself. However, I do not use the flask to charge the gun directly. I charge my guns directly from a powder measure.

Now, there's no difference in the likelihood of a flash ignition while charging a gun with a powder measure or with a flask, but the consequences are much different. Igniting the charge coming out of a powder measure will hurt you, maybe even burn you, but the measure will be empty or very nearly empty. Igniting the charge coming out of a flask has a much different ending because it WILL have LOTS of powder left in it. Even if it doesn't detonate, the very large flash and boom are serious events to be involved in.

No, flasks are fine as interim chargers, but should not be used as final chargers, simply because of the large amount of powder they typically contain.
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