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Old March 29, 2010, 11:46 AM   #1
Delmar
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another 1858

I was at a gun show Saturday and picked up an old brass frame 1858 for $75

It looks pretty rough on the outside but the bore looks good and it seems to lock in right. One slight problem that I am having is that, at half cock, the bolt pops up to early, just before it locks into half cock. Unless I cock it very very gently, in which case I can get it to lock into half cock without the bolt coming up.
I cant find a makers mark, but I am pretty sure it is not Uberti, Pietta, or Euroarms.

This pistol has a pretty unique trigger bolt spring, that I though somebody here might recognize. anyone seen something like this before?



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Old March 29, 2010, 12:25 PM   #2
bedbugbilly
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Nice looking pistol! I'm not a "pistol smith" - wish I could help you out but someone on this site can probably give you some suggestions. You might want to post over on CassCity as well as it is a "Remmie" site and there are lots of fellas over there that have worked on all makes of Remingtons. Best of luck and you'll get her straightened out. Just remember - pistols are like people - doesn't matter what they look like . . . it's what's on the inside that counts! Safe shooting!
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Old March 29, 2010, 12:32 PM   #3
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Del,

Congrats on the pistol.

I'd have paid 75.00 for it too.

Spring looks post sale fabricated to me, but there are plenty of things I have never seen.

For example, I have never seen a cat bird make kittens.

By examining the interior of the frame does it appear that a standard spring would fit? If so you might replace it and see if that corrects the problem. My thought though is that the half cock problem has more to do with the bolt. Might try spreading the legs a bit....carefully.
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Old March 29, 2010, 06:42 PM   #4
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what doc said +1
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Old March 29, 2010, 08:12 PM   #5
Delmar
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Quote:
Spring looks post sale fabricated to me
That thought had crossed my mind, but if not, I thought it might be a clue.



Quote:
By examining the interior of the frame does it appear that a standard spring would fit?
The one from my Pietta won't fit (without modification), I haven't checked the one from my Euroarms yet. I do think that style of spring would work, but the size may be specific to the brand, which remains unknown to me.
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Old March 30, 2010, 02:47 AM   #6
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Del,

It would not be the first time I have to modify a spring to get it to work in a pistol.
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Old April 4, 2010, 06:04 AM   #7
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Hello,

Quote:
This pistol has a pretty unique trigger bolt spring, that I though somebody here might recognize. anyone seen something like this before?
I ve seen a gunner with it at the belt to fast shoot without holster. Just leemback the gun to fire...

The revolver seems really rough on the outside, but $75 that all folks !!!
If you are sure to the brand, maybe there are some marks ? Dating and proof marks ?
I ve a 1851 Reb Navy from Italian manufacturer of 1968 without any brand marks too.
Maybe, By examining the interior of the frame does it appear that some number hided.
EIE, FIE, PR, ???? it might that interseting researche.
Have any more info to post about it there ?
Seb
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Old April 4, 2010, 09:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
One slight problem that I am having is that, at half cock, the bolt pops up to early, just before it locks into half cock. Unless I cock it very very gently, in which case I can get it to lock into half cock without the bolt coming up.
You can bend the leg of the bolt that rides over the cam on the hammer. It does not take much, just a few thousandth at a time until you get the bolt to raise correctly. It is possible that the cam is worn, compare it to your other 1858's.

That coil spring sure looks like it's an added part.
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Old April 4, 2010, 03:51 PM   #9
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So I finally got it cleaned up to the point you can actually see the marks. She's kind of pretty all cleaned up, but so much of the bluing is gone and the outside of the barrel and loading lever were pitted enough that it will get ugly real quick if I don't oil the outside real good every time I clean it.




I hope you can make out the markings





The number 2550 appears to the right EIE Italy on the butt of the gun. Also the number 141 is stamped on the frame under the grip and on the underside of the barrel.

Last edited by Delmar; April 4, 2010 at 03:57 PM.
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Old April 4, 2010, 04:09 PM   #10
Delmar
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Quote:
You can bend the leg of the bolt that rides over the cam on the hammer. It does not take much, just a few thousandth at a time until you get the bolt to raise correctly. It is possible that the cam is worn, compare it to your other 1858's.
The cam doesn't look worn. I did bend the legs of the bolt out slightly, and we are making progress. When I put the gun into half cock slowly it functions correctly every time. When I do it quickly the bolt pops up every time. Bend it out a little more? I hate to take a chance of breaking it before I have a replacement.
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Old April 4, 2010, 04:36 PM   #11
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Yet another PR. If I'm not mistaken EIE is Excam Import Export out of either Hialeah or Miami Fl.
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Old April 4, 2010, 04:55 PM   #12
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PR?
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Old April 4, 2010, 05:27 PM   #13
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Del

I am with you on your concern for more force on that bolt. I am a bolt filer, not a bolt bender. I do believe it needs to be opened up more. But I don't want to be the one to tell you to start jimmying with it. I generally take a standard (not hollow ground) screwdriver and gingerly push it down between the legs of the bolt to open it up. If I were you, I think I would get a replacement just in case. Dixie has a Remington Repair Kit for around 9.50 and you will find that most of the parts will fit or can be made to fit. It has a bolt (They call it a cylinder stop) a hand and spring and the trigger/bolt spring as well.

As regards "PR" who knows?
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Old April 4, 2010, 05:33 PM   #14
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Think bprevolver said he's been trying to find out who PR was for 15 years. I have a brass framed Remington Police with the same name imported by FIE.

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Old April 4, 2010, 07:22 PM   #15
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I would be willing to bet....

If there was a person on the forum from Italy who had personal knowledge of the way business and more specifically the gun business works, many answers would be uncovered.

I lived in Italy for about a year and I learned that they love shortening names into initials as much as we do.

Cheers,
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Old April 5, 2010, 07:14 AM   #16
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Delmar,
goods jobs for cleaning your Remington Texas.
As i think that another EIE PR !! lol
Thanks for the pics, that all right.
I just want to tell you the screws are short, it might.
n 141 it's nice you tell this marks. Because i'm seeking any link with manufacturers who did it. I have saw this kind of marks at the same place into my :
PIETTA : with n 585 about 1851 navy (AL) serial number 241585 , an other 1851 navy model (AD) with n 337 (front barrel & cylinder) and n 536 (brass grips & wood grips) serial number 118337, and also about 1860 army (AT) with n 964 (front barrel & cylinder) and n 784 (brass grips & wood grips) from serial number 8964.
DGG (Euroarms) : 1851 navy short barrel "hartford" serial 78931 (AF) n 590 (brass & woods grips) k4297 front of barrel.
A.S.M : 1851 cal 44 serail number B 78153 (AZ) there are any numbers, except 78153 wrote with pen into the wood grips. I had make an hybride gun with frame from Uberti serial number 51020 (XXX) with number B 276 into it.
UBERTI : Remington 1858 cal 44 (BZ) serial number A 55162 with n 19 brass grips.
UNKNOW : Reb Navy 1851 (XXIV) serial number 03304 n 211 brass grips and 221 frame and back the cylinder.
Hope those note help you...
While, i note that PIETTA used the 3 last serial number to wrote those numbers like 141 on your revovler. DGG, ASM & UBERTI used another kind of marks with those numbers.
About your revolver, the date marks are XX8 (1972) or XX9 (1973).
Sincerly,
Seb
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Old April 7, 2010, 09:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Dixie has a Remington Repair Kit for around 9.50 and you will find that most of the parts will fit or can be made to fit. It has a bolt (They call it a cylinder stop) a hand and spring and the trigger/bolt spring as well.
I can't find any such repair kit at Dixie gunworks. There is a kit sort of like that for the Pietta at Cabela"s but is like $26 and the set at VTI is more like $55
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:44 AM   #18
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Here it is

DGW part number SS2082 Remington Revolver Parts set - 9.50. The set of screws is SP1011 at 17.50. Sounds like it might be a lot like the Cabela's set but Cabela's price is a little better.

Some of the screws might be the wrong size. A call to DGW might help determine which screws will fit the Uberti. My experience with Cabela's is that they are good at selling stuff but not so great at answering technical questions. No money in it, I guess.
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Old April 8, 2010, 07:19 PM   #19
Delmar
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DGW part number SS2082 Remington Revolver Parts set - 9.50.
With shipping that is going to come to $15.45 but it still seems to be the best deal I can find for a new bolt. Especially since it comes with a new trigger bolt spring. That would give me a chance to get rid of that improvised spring. The fact that it is made for a generic "Italian manufactured Remington revolver" seems like the right thing to try for this pistol, since I don't know who made it anyway.
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Old April 8, 2010, 08:57 PM   #20
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Del,

I have ordered from DGW and every time I do, I wonder if other folks charge the high shipping they do. I suppose they are about average. I try to get several things at one time to try to reduce the shipping rate but I don't even know if that works.

I have been to the store and I can undertand the shipping. When I was there the staff outnumbered the customers by at least two to one.

The store is an experience
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Old April 12, 2010, 05:13 PM   #21
Delmar
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Quote:
DGW part number SS2082 Remington Revolver Parts set
So I'm getting ready to order that parts set. The pistol also has a mismatched set of nipples. I was thanking of ordering some from Dixie while I'm at it. Does anyone have a recommendation, out of what is available at Dixie Gun Works?
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Old April 12, 2010, 11:10 PM   #22
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Dixie is about the highest place you can go for both parts and shipping. However they have stuff in stock nobody else carries.
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Old April 13, 2010, 12:31 AM   #23
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There have been quite a few reports that Dixie is not the most expensive place to buy revolver parts even including the shipping.
Although they do have a huge selection, I always thought that VTI was one of the most expensive places to buy revolver parts from including the shipping.
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Old April 13, 2010, 05:50 AM   #24
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My two cents

About eight or ten months ago I rehabbed an 1863 Remington from ASM(CVA). It was basically a shell and needed a lot of parts. I went to VTI, Deer Creek, and Dixie. I did a one for one comparison between Dixie and VTI and found that after you consider shipping and cost for parts, there was very little difference.

Some parts were more expensive at one rather than the other but it was not consistent. At VTI, the sales person actually asked me what the catalog quoted for a price.

I think if you do comparative pricing for a small job like the repair of one pistol, you will not see much advantage in using one or the other. It is fun doing the comparison so my recommendation is that you do take the time. Also you may find that my experience is unique...that there is good reason to go to one or the other for all of the parts.

I also think you will learn a lot about availability. ASM parts are getting rare enough that you may have to make use of multiple sources in order to get everything you need. On that 1863, I had to do considerable adaptation of Pietta parts. ASM parts simply are not available in some cases. That 1863 is not a popular pistol but that could be both a good or a bad thing when it comes to finding parts in a logistic support system that no longer has an input.
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Old April 14, 2010, 04:16 AM   #25
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This Remington was made in 1973 if the date code is XX9 or '72 if XX8, not so clear to read from the mark, in the rough '70 production or replicas was at the top for quantity of small factory, but in many case at the bottom for quality
Without a clear factory mark i think is impossible to understand who made it!
One way is compare the revolver with other with well knowed producer, like mr Pietta said me during a telephone call where i asked him spare part for an old remington, the difference from makers depends for first from what original they examine for cloning, and than fron the tooling capability of the workers and the goodness of tool machine!
By the way, many small parts, like spring, were made not at home but from small workshop in the area and could be a high compatibility even in different production factory (or best to say, small family workshop where they finish rough cast, barrel and other part buyed outside and only fitted toghether).
About numbers, besides the serial numbers, often, there is an assembly number, hand fitted part need to be knowed during the building process
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