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Old April 13, 2010, 08:45 PM   #26
orionengnr
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What cheese would be most suitable for self-defense?
Limburger..but you will have to give it a few hours to...ummm...age in your bowels.
And then you must be able to ummm...deploy at will
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Old April 14, 2010, 01:18 AM   #27
GLK
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This is what makes gun owners look bad.
What does that even mean?

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Some of you are so paranoid that I feel uneasy knowing that you own a gun.
I feel uneasy knowing that there are people that think they can diagnose mental disorders from mere post on a BB..

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I'm sorry, but there are very few places in this world bad enough.. where you should verbally discipline yourself for not bringing a big enough gun, leaving extra ammo at home, or not practicing "running around your house".
What you see as paranoia myself and many others see as being prepared.

Quote:
but there are very few places in this world bad enough
I don't know how much you travel or where you travel. But the victims of murder assault rape and robbery would most likely differ with your opinion on arms ammo and physical and mental preparedness. Personally I find that being armed well trained and very proficient has actually made me less paranoid yet much more observant prepared and aware of situations that are or may turn bad and the intelligence to get me and mine somewhere else ASAP.

Here is a short list of incidents just in this country that evidently are bad enough to worry about the issues you claim are nothing to worry about. These all occurred after the massacre in that "not bad enough" place Columbine High School.

Atlanta, GA July 1999: A stockmarket day trader goes on a day-long shooting rampage, killing 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.


Fort Worth, TX September 1999: A gunman opens fire at a prayer service, killing six people then himself.

Washington, D.C. October 2002: A series of sniper-style shootings, some carried out from the boot of a car, claims 10 lives, mostly in the Washington, D.C. area. A semi-automatic assault rifle was used.

Chicago, IL August 2003: A laid-off worker shoots and kills six former co-workers. Semi-automatic pistol was used. The shooter had a long criminal record, which included weapons offences.

Birchwood, WI November 2004: A hunter opens fire with an assault rifle, killing six hunters and wounding two.

Brookfield, WI March 2005: A man fires 22 rounds during a church service, killing seven people.

Nickel Mines, PA October 2006: A truck driver armed with two rifles, a semi-automatic handgun and 600 rounds of ammunition, kills five schoolgirls execution-style in an Amish schoolhouse, and seriously wounds six others before shooting himself.

Blacksburg, VA April 2007: A student shoots 47 people at Virginia Tech, killing 32 before he commits suicide, in the deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Omaha, NE December 2007: Nine people are killed and five others injured after a 20-year-old shooter armed with a military-style assault rifle attacks shoppers in a mall.

Carnation, WA December 2007: A woman and her boyfriend shoot and kill six members of her family, including two children, ages three and six, on Christmas Eve, using large-caliber pistols.

Chicago, IL February 2008: Six women are restrained and shot at a suburban clothing store. Five women die. Gunman gets away.

DeKalb, IL February 2008: Five students are killed and 16 wounded when a gunman opens fire at a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before turning gun on himself.

Alger, WA September 2008: A mentally ill man, who had been released from jail a month earlier, shoots eight people, killing six.

Covina, CA December 2008: A man dressed as Santa Claus opens fire at a family Christmas party in his ex-wife’s home and then sets fire to the house. Nine people are killed in the home. The gunman later kills himself.

Geneva County and Coffee County, AL March 2009: In a shooting spree that tears through several towns, a 28-year-old out-of-work man kills 10 people, including his mother and a toddler.


Others can choose to be sheep as that is their right, I prefer to be a sheep dog as that is my right.
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Old April 14, 2010, 06:19 AM   #28
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Eskimo - Seriously? That sounds a lot like someone who has never been on "the sharp end of the stick". Plenty of folks here HAVE been there. That is a fact not paranoia and once you've been there, you never want to find yourself unprepared again. Of course if you would like to provide us with a detailed map of the "bad places" I'm sure many of us (myself included) would be more than happy to buy a copy so that we could avoid them and then we wouldn't have to be concerned about self defense any more.

Just curious...when's the last time you did a fire drill in your house? Does doing a fire drill mean that you are paranoid about your house burning down? Does NOT doing the occasional fire drill mean you are in denial about the possibility of fire?
Seems to me that person should be working at getting over the unreasonable paranoia that came from the attack. And.. of course not! A family having a fire drill in the house is completely out of the ordinary. One thing I really dislike is excessive safety.

Life is too short to constantly worry about all these things. By the time you're prepared for everything that life can throw at you, you're dead by natural causes!
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Old April 14, 2010, 06:39 AM   #29
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1- Hesitation
2- worrying about what a jury will think, instead of staying alive
3-spending more on mall ninja stuff for all your rails, than on ammo to shoot.
Quote:
A family having a fire drill in the house is completely out of the ordinary. One thing I really dislike is excessive safety.

Life is too short to constantly worry about all these things.
Life may really be short if your family can't get out of a burning house, because you think a fire drill is out of the ordinary. That's been basic common sense, since I was a kid...decades ago.
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Old April 14, 2010, 07:30 AM   #30
Eskimo
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Life may really be short if your family can't get out of a burning house, because you think a fire drill is out of the ordinary. That's been basic common sense, since I was a kid...decades ago.
Could you explain why a fire drill is needed if your house is built to code?
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Old April 14, 2010, 07:34 AM   #31
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Pizzakilla - +5 on that. Anyone who thinks lasers are useless doesn't understand the concept and needs to order Crimson Trace's free DVD. It's a real eye opener for laser use in self-defense situations.
I can see where some folks might find a laser useful for home defense. But for outside the home for self defense, I just don't see how on earth a laser is helpful at all.

Fictional Example - I'm getting money out of an ATM machine at 9:00 pm and see a guy quickly approach me after he was lurking behind some bushes - I'll be lucky to just get my gun out quick enough to make it useful.

Fictional Example - I'm walking to my car at 9:30 pm in a Walmart parking lot and see a suspicious vehicle following me. The vehicle blocks my car and two guys jump out and are now within 15 feet of me. And, I need a laser for what????

Fictional Example - It's 10:00 pm and my car is overheating, so I pull off in the emergency lane along I-675. A tricked-out ricer with black windows and a big fat chrome exaust pulls in front of my parked car while I'm looking under the hood. One guy quietly approaches me while the other stays in the running car - Do I use that laser to burn their eyes out??? [something similar happened a week ago, but my car was fine, and it was a cop checking to make sure I was ok]

Real Life Example: I have been in a situation similar to these, but was unarmed with the exception of a large sharp screwdriver. My car popped a radiator hose in a parking lot at 11:00 at night. I was working on putting a new hose on (long story how I got the hose), when I saw a man quickly and quietly approaching me from behind, coming from across the parking lot. I waited until he was right behind me before I gave a hint that I saw him, then I lunged at him with the screwdriver saying something like "if you don't turn around and leave imediately, I'm going to gut you like a pig"...but just not in such nice words as that. The guy fortunately left, I fixed the car and got out of there. Now, if that screwdriver was a gun with a laser on it, what exactly would that laser have done for me?

Last edited by Skans; April 14, 2010 at 07:43 AM.
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Old April 14, 2010, 07:52 AM   #32
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Skans,

I think you need to see that video.

(EDIT: Just found that it's also available "by chapter" online here... http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Vid...6/Default.aspx )

I'm starting a new thread here so I can stop hijacking this one.
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Old April 14, 2010, 09:22 AM   #33
SilentHitz
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Could you explain why a fire drill is needed if your house is built to code?
Be glad to, same reason they're needed in schools and other buildings that are built to code. To make sure everyone knows where all possible exits are, depending on where in that building the fire is at, and where to meet to make a head count...make sure nobody is left inside.

This is more important in the home, as a lot of fires happen at night or the wee hours of the morning. Everyone is not fully awake, even as they are trying to get out of a home full of smoke and flames. If they have had a couple of fire drills, it improves their chances of getting everyone out, and to a predetermined spot for a head count. It's not paranoia...it's just a little planning to make sure you don't leave one of your kids inside a burning house.

You don't have to do a drill every freakin' month, just once or twice will be enough to let everyone know what to do.

Homes and other buildings built to code burn to the ground every day...fire resistant does not mean that a fire won't burn up everything in it, including your loved ones.
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Old April 14, 2010, 02:27 PM   #34
sakeneko
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I second the use of ripe (or better yet, overripe) Limburger cheese in self defense. I bet it would work better than pepper spray against many attackers. <wrinkling nose> ;-)
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Old April 14, 2010, 03:04 PM   #35
Brandy
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Open carry
Not having a laser sight
Not having a dog
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Old April 14, 2010, 04:32 PM   #36
mapsjanhere
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GLK while some of your shootings might have benefited from an armed citizen response, I wonder how you'll defend against the DC sniper with a concealed weapon, or if you carry a cw to church (ok, maybe I shouldn't ask the last one on this board ).
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Old April 14, 2010, 04:59 PM   #37
Eskimo
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When I brought up code I was talking about the amount of exits required. One in every room at the very least. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how to get out.

If I had an upstairs I would have a safety ladder and make sure the kids knew.. but I think a drill is a little excessive.

There are so many things that COULD go wrong. If we prepared for all of them (or even half of them), enjoying life would become pretty difficult.
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Old April 14, 2010, 05:50 PM   #38
SilentHitz
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I agree there, we had a total of 2 drills the 18 years I lived at home, one was for my brother who came along 10 years later...no need to be a fanatic about it, just so you have everyone meeting in one place. My plan at 8 was to go out the window and into my treehouse in the back yard LOL, until Dad explained that could cause someone to run into a burning building to rescue someone who wasn't even in there.

Basic drills harm nobody, and can save lives.
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Old April 14, 2010, 07:00 PM   #39
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There are so many things that COULD go wrong. If we prepared for all of them (or even half of them), enjoying life would become pretty difficult
No one is advocating being a paranoid nutjob. But, being reasonably prepared is your duty as an adult. carrying a reload for a CCW is reasonable. I think you are being overly confrontational.
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Old April 14, 2010, 07:45 PM   #40
ActivShootr
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carrying a reload for a CCW is reasonable.
I agree. Especially with a semi-auto. Alot of problems can be fixed with a fresh magazine.
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Old April 14, 2010, 08:03 PM   #41
Eskimo
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Never said carrying a reload was unreasonable. The point was that people were acting like was a terrible mistake not to.
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Old April 14, 2010, 08:52 PM   #42
MakBobarov
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They aren't saying it is the worst thing ever but there is always the chance that you need another magazine. BG is farther away than you have been practicing, behind cover, your nerves are shot, you got hit by enemy fire, you accidentally hit your magazine release and it is more time-saving to load your secondary magazine. Any of those could be reasons why you NEED more ammo and it takes very little effort to remember to pick that extra magazine up from wherever you store your gun when you holster your CCW.
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Old April 15, 2010, 08:05 AM   #43
Tangentabacus
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1. Your "switchblade" Audi key
2. Karate (although, anything is better than nothing)
3. Flip flops/Sandals

In reality, if it can't be used while at the same time running away or retreating then it's just going to get in the way of you defending yourself. You gotta always be aware, and understand that sometimes the best way to save yourself and others is to move out of the way of danger.

I have never been in a situation where a firearm would have done me any better than to make the other dude panic. I really haven't had the time or the insight to be enough prepared during a possibly dangerous situation to actually use a gun.

To kind of make sense of that jumbled mess... I recently was charged by a grizzly. Thankfully my bull mastif made the grizzly distracted enough for me to get across a river. Either way... About ten minutes after the incident (while I was changing my underwear), I had realized about the AK-47 I had on my back. My first instinct was to get the hell out of there! In retrospect, I could have probably fended the bear off with a full magazine, but in that really tight situation I was obviously unable enough to think to do anything else besides run... And soil my underwear.

If you insist on carrying a gun... Keep your cool and train a whole lot more than I did.

I want to take some self defense classes.
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Old April 15, 2010, 09:33 PM   #44
Puntmefar
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id have to say most usless things are

1 the cool saying you plan to say if you ever have to pull your gun

2 the weapon you had tucked in a bad hard to reach place when you really need it

3 the hope you have that a officer would get there in time to save your life when your not prepaired........ no offence to any officer out there i belive law enforcement does a fine job but i also realize officers can not be every place at one time and it takes time to respond to a call i thank you for your service.
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Old April 15, 2010, 10:14 PM   #45
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Your cell phone.

911.

The cop who is only 5 minutes away.
Wrong. The cell phone is a very valuable tool in the event of an SD shooting. If for nothing else, a 911 recording could be the difference between a murder charge and freedom.

It would definitely be worthless if you expected to call 911 and have cop there before a BG maims you. However it definitely has it's place in SD. If possible, you'd better believe I'll be holding the phone in one hand and 911 in the other.
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Old April 15, 2010, 11:36 PM   #46
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1. It works in the movies/TV

2. It'll never happen to me/I'm not paranoid and don't need a gun

3. I don't need to practice, I have X (insert magic gun or caliber) so that should be enough
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Old April 16, 2010, 03:52 PM   #47
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Treg: - Not owning a .22 to practice with.
We have a winner! If you don't have a .22 (preferably one that mimics your carry gun), then you don't shoot enough. If you don't shoot enough, then you aren't as ready as you can be when you actually need to defend yourself.

If you have a .22, you can shoot 500 rounds on any given afternoon for under $20. Is there anyone here who shoots 500 rounds of 9/40/45 in a practice session?
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Old April 16, 2010, 04:04 PM   #48
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1. ego
2. pride
3. honor
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Old April 16, 2010, 04:10 PM   #49
45Gunner
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If you have a .22, you can shoot 500 rounds on any given afternoon for under $20. Is there anyone here who shoots 500 rounds of 9/40/45 in a practice session?
I am a 1911 fanatic and bought a Chiappa .22, a gun that looks like a 1911. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds from it and then have to get my .45 fix. I have to shoot a .45 each time I go to the range. I shoot not less than 2000 rounds of .45ACP per month. So....to answer your question, Yes. It's not cheap but I do try to buy my ammo in 1000 round bulk lots, which reduces the overall costs.

The .22, while inexpensive to shoot, is only good for target practice or to teach shooting to a student. If one wants to maintain a self defensive proficiency, that is getting on target and staying on target with multiple round bursts, one must train with the gun that he/she intends upon utilizing.
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Old April 16, 2010, 04:53 PM   #50
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I am a 1911 fanatic and bought a Chiappa .22, a gun that looks like a 1911. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds from it and then have to get my .45 fix. I have to shoot a .45 each time I go to the range.
Absolutely! I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't also put lots of rounds downrange in your carry gun, just that a .22 gives you the option to do a lot more shooting for a lot less money.

Quote:
The .22, while inexpensive to shoot, is only good for target practice or to teach shooting to a student.
On that, we'll have to disagree! My hat is off to you for shooting 2000 rounds a month in .45, but I can't afford that and most that can, probably wouldn't. I have a Ciener conversion that I shoot for practice. I'll put 200 to 300 rounds out at my little steel plate spinner, then shoot some .45. I'm no competition shooter, but all that practice and repetition makes me absolutely comfortable with my .45. I have no doubt that if the SHTF, I can perform just on habit and muscle memory alone, no matter how much my knees are knocking.
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