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Old April 11, 2010, 03:01 PM   #1
Cool_Hand
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Letting my father borrow a handgun

Hey there, just wondering what the legality is of letting someone borrow a handgun. To start off my father just got his CCW permit, so it is not an issue if he is qualified or has the proper credentials to handle a firearm, plus he has shot all my firearms extensively.

He is currently involved in a lawsuit with an old business associate and is a little worried that the guy might take some sort of action. It was ruled in my fathers favor and the guy owes my dad a large sum of money, well over 50K, so you can see why he is a little worried about this guy taking some sort of action. Anyways I was wondering if I could lend him one of my handguns since he doesn't have the money right now to buy one of his own, not only because of legal fees, but this old business associate caused my father to lose allot of money.

Right now he has one of my J frames and I included a letter with it stating I had given permission for him to borrow and possess that particular firearm, I also included the firearms serial number and I included my firearm license number next to my signature. Is this okay to do? He hasn't done it yet but is he legally able to conceal that firearm I had given him or keep it in his truck when he leaves the house? I appreciate any help, thanks.
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Old April 11, 2010, 03:25 PM   #2
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I'm not sure if there are any State laws which may prohibit the lending of firearms, but if he meets all of the federal requirements, I say it's good to go.

I assume he has no Wants or Warrents, no history of battery or assault, has not pleaded temporary insanity, nor has he plea bargained out of any prohibitive charges since he was awarded a CCW by the state. It sounds like you have your legal ducks in a row regarding the letter of permission. You've got your name, his name, date, serial, your signature and his. I think you are both legally covered.

That is more than enough for such a situation down here in AZ, but maybe somebody more familiar with Mass. can chime in with their experiences.

After thought, one thing I might add to the letter of permission is maybe a statement regarding WHY he wants to borrow your firearm. "I am involved in a legal action regarding a large sum of money which is owed to me, I fear retaliation from the defendant for........" Something like that may cover any forgotten I's or T's.
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Old April 11, 2010, 04:53 PM   #3
Glenn Dee
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OK so I'd check the local state laws. You might want to gift it to him on paper.
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Old April 11, 2010, 04:54 PM   #4
johnwilliamson062
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Why don't you give him the gun for the time being? Transfer ownership as a gift. Then you don't have any worries.
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Old April 11, 2010, 05:04 PM   #5
Cool_Hand
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With a little research I found this right here under Mass gun laws.

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper
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Old April 11, 2010, 10:30 PM   #6
johnwilliamson062
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If you own the gun and he uses it in self defense I am sure you could be named in a civil suit much as the owner of a vehicle is named in a suit over a car accident. You could also face criminal complications, although I am confident they could be cleared up without much trouble or cost, unlike the civil complications. I would not "lend" a gun to someone to carry.
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Old April 11, 2010, 10:39 PM   #7
Doc Intrepid
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Guess what? Your Dad has a lawyer. Same lawyer that has been representing him in court.

Ask his lawyer to confirm that what you're doing is legal within your own state, or what the best way of proceeding would be. Sure beats a lot of speculation.

Best,

Doc
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Old April 12, 2010, 03:16 AM   #8
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ask the lawyer. But yeah i'd transfer it as a gift also.
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Old April 12, 2010, 06:46 AM   #9
alloy
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Sorry for the thread veer, but does dad not suppose his currently elevated apprehension is a reason to own a handgun permanently? Obviously he's come to some conclusion about the possibility of needing one, but being somewhat hamstrung by not having one. Surely there is a longer term fix than a loan for a specific threat, which seems like it could be twisted into bad court juju by a clever lawyer.

Not trying to stir a pot, just curious.
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Old April 12, 2010, 07:01 AM   #10
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Since you can legally "gift" a firearm to someone, I wouldn't think there would be an issue with your father carrying your gun.

I'd check out your home state laws of course and check out www.handgunlaw.us for laws pertaining to your states CCW.
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Old April 12, 2010, 07:51 AM   #11
blume357
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Yes, I think the best thing is to legally gift him the gun.

If you want to call it a loan between the two of you then he can always gift it back to you.

the big deal will be whether Mass. requires you do a legal transfer for this with an FFL. (I don't have a clue on this) most states don't but Mass might... but it is usually a token amount.... 25-50 bucks.

I didn't see different but assume you both live in the same state?
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Old April 12, 2010, 01:39 PM   #12
Cool_Hand
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No in Mass we dont need an FFL, I bought my last handgun through a private sale and all we did was meet up at the police station in his town to grab a form, filled it out and I payed him and he gave me the handgun. I will probably transfer ownership for the time being as a few of you said.
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Old April 13, 2010, 07:05 AM   #13
blume357
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Too be honest, if a bad thing happened I doubt that the difference

between 'loaning' and 'gifting' is really going to make a heck of a difference to the lawyers in the trial and related law suits.

Where it could make a difference is since your father has a concealed carry permit that he is carrying a gun that he actually legally owns and has continued to jump through the proper government hoops.
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Old April 13, 2010, 09:23 AM   #14
Glenn Dee
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Gifting and loaning are hugely different. With a loan one reserves his ownership, and responsibility for the firearm. A loan is temporary in nature.

A gift is permenant in nature, and the owner relinquish all title, and rights to the property. As long as the gifting was legal, and done in a responsible manner the pistol effectively changed hands. The same as if it were sold.

Not to say that some lawyer couldnt make an argument that the seller is somehow still responsible for the firearm. I think mayor blumberg of New York is such a lawyer.


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Old April 13, 2010, 11:05 AM   #15
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You guys crack me up. Someone may be after your dad to hurt him and you can question if you'll put a gun in his hand? You put legal fears above family? Glad you're not my son!

If someone was after my dad, he'd have a gun in his hand so fast you'd think he was Bob Munden. WHo cares about laws when someone is after your family?
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Old April 13, 2010, 11:27 AM   #16
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amen ed

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Old April 13, 2010, 11:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
If someone was after my dad, he'd have a gun in his hand so fast you'd think he was Bob Munden. WHo cares about laws when someone is after your family?
But someone is NOT after his dad. They have only fear and speculation. If the law can be broken every time there is fear or speculation of danger then we live in anarchy.

Regardless, the OP appears to have answered his own question. It is perfectly legal for a permit holder to borrow a gun in his state. End of story.
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Old April 13, 2010, 12:01 PM   #18
Edward429451
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But what law would be broken giving a gun to a family member?

An award for 50K dollars creates exigent circumstances in my mind. It is speculation but we wouldn't want to have dad to hit the ground first before it was taken seriously.

Quote:
If the law can be broken every time there is fear or speculation of danger then we live in anarchy.
This is a pretty thin blanket statement I hope you know! I have loaned guns to family and close friends many times when uh, fear and speculation were in the air. On one occassion the presence of the loaned arm defused the violent situation without a shot fired. When they seen he was prepared they decided that they didnt want to be there.

No Anarchy, lol! The sky is still up there, and friends and family know they have someone they can count on with me. I wont hand guns over to convicted felons though.
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Old April 13, 2010, 12:08 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
But what law would be broken giving a gun to a family member?
It depends on where you live. In the OPs locations, no law is broken so long as the lendee has a permit.

In NY state, and I'm sure others as well, no one may loan a handgun to anyone else regardless of whether or not the parties in question have a permit.

As to the anarchy argument....

Officer, I was speeding because I thought that blue Lexus back there was chasing me.... (or maybe he's trying to get his very pregnant wife to the hospital)

Agent Smith, I didn't pay my taxes to the IRS because I was afraid that they were after me.... (or maybe they're not out to get me, tinfoil hat or no)

Well, officer, I loaned the gun to my dad because someone owed him money and might have come after him.... (or maybe the guy is just angry and will or will not pay the money but won't hurt anybody, just like 99.99% of people who lose lawsuits will do)


What's the difference? Breaking laws based on nothing but fear and speculation is a call to anarchy.
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Old April 13, 2010, 12:17 PM   #20
NavyLT
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and IF it was accross state lines, the loan would most likely be legal, but the gift would be a felony.
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Old April 14, 2010, 12:31 AM   #21
Cool_Hand
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Quote:
You guys crack me up. Someone may be after your dad to hurt him and you can question if you'll put a gun in his hand? You put legal fears above family? Glad you're not my son!

If someone was after my dad, he'd have a gun in his hand so fast you'd think he was Bob Munden. WHo cares about laws when someone is after your family?
If you actually read my post I did give it to him, I was asking advice on what further action to take to make the loan legitimate.
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Old April 14, 2010, 05:24 AM   #22
blume357
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I don't think you need to do a thing to make the loan legit...

I think you got it covered, unless you want to take further steps to 'look better.'
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