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Old April 8, 2010, 01:08 PM   #1
IrvJr
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O/U Shotgun with Mechanical Triggers

Hi All,

I currently have a Browning Cynergy Field in 12 ga as my only shotgun. It's a great gun and I use it for clay shooting (mostly skeet) and hunting. It's a great gun, but I would like to also get another O/U shotgun, in 20 ga.

I am leaning towards another Cynergy. I like my 12ga Cynergy a lot. However, I figured I'd also look around at other brands before I commit to purchase another gun.

One thing that I am interested in is finding a gun with mechanical triggers. I like this feature of the Browning Cynergy. I have also read that Ruger Red Labels have mechanical triggers. Do you know of any good quality shotgun that has a set of mechanical triggers in them (from the factory)? Do all Beretta O/U's inertia activated triggers?

Thanks in advance.
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Old April 8, 2010, 01:51 PM   #2
.300 Weatherby Mag
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You could pick up a Citori... As good as the Ruger Red Labels might be I cannot bring myself to spend that much money on something with atrocious wood to metal fit... The stocks have better wood to metal fit on my 870 than on any red label i've ever seen... I own rugers but wont buy one of these... They look :barf::barf:
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Old April 8, 2010, 02:01 PM   #3
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Why mechanical, don't they typically have heavier trigger pulls?
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Old April 8, 2010, 02:53 PM   #4
BigJimP
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I'm more of a traditionalist ... so I've stayed with the Browning Citori line of guns ( I guess I have about 20 of them now ...) ...and while I have fired some of the Cynergy models ...I've never felt the need to spend some money on them ( although its been more about fit / than about styling )...

The Cynergy models I have fired ...seemed like they had decent triggers ...and as far as I know the whole Cynergy line has mechanical triggers vs the inertia triggers in the Citori lineup..
------------------------------
per Brownings website..

" The Cynergy design was to be based on the reverse hinge concept put forward by Rousseau several years earlier, and it was Potter's job to design all the internal mechanisms ... resulting in the first prototype coming out of Browning's model shop in Morgan, Utah in 1999. By 2001 Browning partner, Miroku, had produced the first design verification prototypes.

"The design is clearly non-traditional," Potter explained. "Using the mono-lock hinge design put unique demands on the system. For example, when the action opens up, the strikers must cock by a `pull' rather than a `push.'"

Working closely with Rousseau, Potter designed the Cynergy's reverse striker system which assured very fast lock times. He created a striker type ejection system and integrated a toggle-type safety/selector. Potter's design assured good function with the mechanical triggers via an ingenious design utilizing an inertia block that prevents doubling while preserving exceptionally fast lock times. .......

------------------------------------
and I won't pretend to tell you how they work vs the more traditional inertia triggers.

A lot of my buddies shoot guns with mechanical triggers - guns that have full length tubes installed by Briley - where the inertia triggers were converted to mechanical by Briley ...and they seem fine ... As far as I know - Briley will set your mechanical triggers to break at 3#, 3 1/2# or 4# or whatever you want ...and last I knew they recommended about 1/2 lb difference between upper and lower - so they don't double ...but that may vary as well. I would call them - if you wanted them to put new triggers in ...but you can get a trigger pull gague and check the triggers on your Cynergy as well .

I don't know what kind of triggers Beretta uses ....

But if you really like the Cynergy line of guns --- I would suggest staying there and just buying another one in 20ga ...

but then, you're asking a guy that has about 20 Browning Citori's too ...but my primary guns for hunting, Skeet and Sporting is the Citori XS Skeet model ( and I have that same gun in 12, 20, 28ga and a .410 ) ... and the Citori XT for trap ...and a couple of Citori Lightning models, a BT-100, a BT-99 ...and just some others that followed me home ...(and some duplicates, just in case ...) .....

my Citori XS Skeet - primary guns ...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1256245028

a couple of my Citori XT - Trap guns ...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...5&d=1268847103

I'm not saying a Ruger is a terrible gun / but their quality has come down some in the last few years in my opinion. I don't think you'll find a better gun for the money - than one of the Browning - or maybe a Beretta.

a man can't live with just one shotgun ... life would be too boring ...
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Old April 8, 2010, 04:20 PM   #5
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I agree with BigJim in regards to the Ruger Red Labs. For the amount of money they cost, you would be better to buy a Browning or Beretta. I see many more problems with Rugers than Browning or Berettas.
Most Berettas below $3000 are inertia triggers.
I suggest finding a gun that fits you well, and if you need mechanical triggers, send it to Cole Gunsmithing in New England. They are known all over the east coast as a top notch shotgun smith. The can put mechanical or release triggers in your gun.
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:00 PM   #6
oneounceload
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Except most Brownings and Berettas don't have mechanical triggers. Personally, I don't have any issues with inertia triggers - they have never failed to go bang when I pulled them - even with light loads
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:14 PM   #7
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My Citori XS Skeet models in 28ga and .410 still have inertia triggers in them ...(Browning shipped them with inertia triggers ..).

but let's not forget the OP says he wanted to stay with mechanical triggers ...and we're just trying to help him justify buying another Browning Cynergy .....or 2 or 3 ...

instead of a Ruger ..(boo -- hiss hiss ) ..(easy for me to spend his money) !
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:31 PM   #8
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What I can't understand about Ruger: They designed and built the best black powder cap and ball revolver ever made only to suspend its production, yet the O/U which is their worst offering is still in production. There must be a lot of uninformed folks out there buying their O/Us based only on brand loyalty.
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:42 PM   #9
IrvJr
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Thanks fellas for the great replies. I am going to look at the Cynergies (both the funky looking kind with the Inflex recoil pad and the more classical looking type). I think I am also going to look at the Citoris and the Berettas, even if they have the inertia-activated triggers. I think the fit will be more important than the trigger mechanism.
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Old April 8, 2010, 05:57 PM   #10
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advantages

Being a SG neophyte.....what are the advantages of mechanical triggers vs. inertia triggers? And, I guess, the downside of each.
Why prefer one over the other? I have a number of older double guns that I have picked up just because I like guns. Lately, I have started to use them more and more. So....this idea is something that I'd like to know more about.
Only two are O/Us - an old Savage with double triggers and a Weatherby (SKB) Orion with one trigger. The others are all SXSs, a Parker, a Le Fever and two Ithacas.
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Old April 8, 2010, 06:04 PM   #11
BigJimP
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The "Fit" is absolutely --- the most important thing in any shotgun purchase ! You nailed it ......if it does not fit .....pass on it .

Triggers ....
Inertia triggers - some feel - are not suited to guns where you shoot light loads - or in the sub-gagues like the 28ga and the .410 .....because there isn't enough recoil, or inertia, to reset the trigger for the 2nd barrel to fire. Personally, I have not had an issue with any of my Brownings and their inertia triggers - even in 28ga or .410 / but they are stand alone guns, built off the 20ga receiver as a 28ga and a .410 by Browning -- and they may have adjusted the triggers accordingly for the gague of the gun.

I don't know that either style is superior ..if they are adjusted right ...they both work just fine in my experience.

Zippy or OneOunce may speak up ...one of them probably has more experience with mechanical triggers than I do ...

Its not a factor on 2 trigger style guns ( as far as I know ..)....they would all be mechanical / and on any single barrel gun ( pump, semi-auto of course it doesn't matter either - but I'm sure they're all mechanical triggers on single barrel guns ...

Note: talked to a buddy who is a serious competitive shooter ... he thinks all the higher end competiton guns ( Krieghoff, Kolar, etc ) use mechanical triggers - because they are inherently more reliable - especially in a .410 . Now all the high end guns / for competition - in 4 gagues - will be shot with full length tubes in a carrier barrel - where you shoot the same receiver and trigger in 20ga, 28ga and .410 ... and if you had a squib load in a .410 ( where it might even break the target )... you would run the chance of an inertia trigger not resetting ... so you couldn't fire the 2nd barrel ( unless you had enough presence to quick like a bunny - click the safety on and off and reset the trigger ... where a mechanical trigger would always fire the 2nd barrel no matter what ....

Last edited by BigJimP; April 8, 2010 at 06:31 PM.
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Old April 8, 2010, 06:29 PM   #12
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The Browning XT is a pretty good all-around gun for all the trap-type games and 5stand, etc. I shoot mine (32") for all the clay games including skeet, trap, doubles trap, sporting clays, etc. Some people prefer the feel of the Citori XT trap over the Cynergy Trap, so I'd definitely shoot them both first if its a tossup between features/price.
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Old April 8, 2010, 06:41 PM   #13
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Quote:Except most Brownings and Berettas don't have mechanical triggers. Personally, I don't have any issues with inertia triggers - they have never failed to go bang when I pulled them - even with light loads

I agree. I have a Beretta with inertia triggers. I had a recoil system installed to make the gun fit exactly like my Benellis. Even with the recoil system, I have never had an issue with the gun going bang.
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Old April 8, 2010, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
instead of a Ruger ..(boo -- hiss hiss ) ..(easy for me to spend his money) !

I agree. I personally rate Ruger poorly for the cost.
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Old April 8, 2010, 06:51 PM   #15
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Quote;he thinks all the higher end competiton guns ( Krieghoff, Kolar, etc ) use mechanical triggers - because they are inherently more reliable - especially in a .410 .
I'm not arguing that this caliber of shooter uses this equipment. I just want to make the point that those shotguns typically cost as much as a decent used truck.
IMHO, if a shooter finds a gun they can shoot well, and wants mech. triggers, just find a smith to do it for you. It is not a difficult job for a good smith.
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Old April 8, 2010, 07:15 PM   #16
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Jim - I forgot about them 410'....

To the questions about mechanical versus inertia:

Mechanical triggers are typically used in guns like a Browning or Beretta where they're selling a 410 or similar built on a 20 gauge frame. Since the recoil from a 410 is light, and even lighter when the gun is on a 20 frame, there isn't as much inertia to reset the second trigger. Benefit? If you pull the trigger and it goes "click" instead of "bang", you can pull the trigger again to fire the other barrel (similar to pulling the trigger on a revolver on a dud first round and it goes to fire the next).

Ruger, the Savage/Fox I own, among others have those triggers. There seems to be some discrepancy about lock time versus inertia triggers (which uses the recoil from the first shot to set the trigger for the next)

Kreighoffs have mechanical, Perazzi has inertia - from what I have gleaned, inertias were a simpler and more reliable way to make a single trigger double barrel shotgun work without doubling - and it has been working very well for about a century. Some will espouse on the crispness of the inertia over the mechanical - supposedly a little less creep - but K guns are noted for having good triggers.

Try them both and see what you like.

From MY personal use - having had a Ruger and currently having a Savage/Fox - mechanical triggers are gritty and have more creep than the inertia guns I own.

YMMV
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Old April 8, 2010, 09:22 PM   #17
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Let's start at the beginning, all trigger assemblies do the same thing: they cause the primer to be struck when the trigger is pulled. However not all triggers are created equally. There are a variety of designs to accomplish this action. Why? Because of patents and preferences.

Initially double barreled shotguns had two triggers, one for each barrel. Yes, it was possible to discharge both barrels at the same time. The next development was the single trigger double gun. The triggers were no longer in direct connection with the sear mechanisms -- one trigger was linked via a clockwork like mechanism that would alternate between the two sears. You pulled the trigger and the right barrel went off, the clockwork then linked with the second barrel's sear and when you pulled a second time the other barrel fired.

Next came the single selective trigger. With it, the shooter was able to select which barrel fired first. Typically the trigger selection mechanism has a linkage that shifts from one hammer assembly to the other. A selection control (usually incorporated with the tang safety slide) determines which barrel is first.

The difference between mechanical and inertia triggers is how the selection clockwork mechanism is powered. In mechanical trigger designs, the mechanism derives its power from the action of pulling the first trigger, and can get very complicated. With inertia trigger designs, recoil energy is used to power the selection. This is typically accomplished using a pendulum like devise with a mass that reacts to the recoil, and is known as the inertia block. The selection mechanism may be fine tuned by altering the mass of the inertia block. Both systems work well and have their benefits and problems.

Mechanical triggers tend to be a lot more complicated and with more parts there are more chances of something going wrong. They also tend to have an irregular trigger pull. With a mechanical trigger if the first barrel is a dud, you just pull again, and the second hammer falls.

The simpler inertia triggers typically have much smoother pulls. This makes them a favorite with many competition shooters. The downside is, if the first barrel is a dud, the trigger doesn't shift for the second shot. Often a smooth as silk trigger that breaks like glass requires a lot of hand fitting and it's reflected in the cost. If you're spending $1K+ on a race gun trigger you may not want a complicated design with inherent roughness -- you want something clean and simple, an inertia mechanism.

I don't shoot at anything that's going to consider me as lunch if I miss-fire with my first barrel. And, I'm easily distracted by an uneven trigger. All of my O/Us have inertia triggers.

A field serviceable drop-out inertia trigger. The inertia block is at the far right.

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Old April 9, 2010, 02:06 AM   #18
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"What are the advantages of mechanical triggers vs. inertia triggers?"
The difference between Mechanical versus inertia is that you can load down a shell to where you see the shot leave the barrel with a mechanical and still get the second shot off, while inertia has to have a certain amount of recoil to set the second shot. What this means is less recoil and a faster second shot for a mechanical trigger. (Better scores)
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Old April 9, 2010, 02:41 AM   #19
.300 Weatherby Mag
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The only problems I've ever seen with inertia triggers was shooting a 12 gauge with .410 tubes... All the other gauges zero issues.....
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Old April 9, 2010, 03:55 AM   #20
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.300 Weatherby Mag, I have inertia triggers and .410 tubes in several guns and have never had a problem setting the second trigger with a .410. At the same time the the tubes were fitted, the inertia blocks were tuned. Now, that doesn't mean I haven't had a failure to select when the first barrel goes squib; but, that's a different issue with inertia triggers.

My friend, oneounceload, is correct in recommending that you try the trigger before you purchase a gun. In reality, most folks who buy a SxS or O/U for casual shooting don't know if their gun is inertia or mechanical and they couldn't care less. It's just us crazies, here and at other forums, who enjoy splitting hairs and learning more about the guns we enjoy.
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Old April 9, 2010, 05:13 AM   #21
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Ha.

Quote:
most folks who buy a SxS or O/U for casual shooting don't know if their gun is inertia or mechanical and they couldn't care less. It's just us crazies, here and at other forums, who enjoy splitting hairs and learning more about the guns we enjoy.
That made me smile.
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Old April 9, 2010, 10:02 AM   #22
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I wouldn't pick a "target" shotgun based on whether it has a mechanical or inertia trigger. I'd pick it based on fit, features, and price point .

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddrum1
The difference between Mechanical versus inertia is that you can load down a shell to where you see the shot leave the barrel with a mechanical and still get the second shot off, while inertia has to have a certain amount of recoil to set the second shot. What this means is less recoil and a faster second shot for a mechanical trigger. (Better scores)
I've had plenty of duds with reloads with bad primers or low powder, etc. I don't know what clay games you are playing, but generally in trap, other than Bunker/Wobble, you ONLY load 1 shell...regardless if its a dud, you don't have a followup shot. In skeet you have 2 shells for 2 targets, so that won't help increase your scores either. In sporting clays you have a simo or report pair, so, that won't help your scores either.....I'm sensing a theme? . Where do you get that having a second shot, due to having a mechanical trigger, will give you a better score? Or, for that matter, how does that make your second shot faster or less recoil? If anything, the inertia block moving backwards would lessen recoil, not increase it, on a minute scale.
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Old April 9, 2010, 10:54 AM   #23
zippy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddrum1
... and a faster second shot for a mechanical trigger. (Better scores)
...Where do you get that having a second shot, due to having a mechanical trigger, will give you a better score?
Consider this scenario: You're having a bad day and you've already used up your allotment of failures for that round. You're presented a pair and your first shot is a squib. With inertia triggers you're now down two targets; however, with mechanical triggers you can pull again on the first target (and if your get it) then you're down only one target. Mechanical triggers have just resulted in a higher score. I know, that's pretty far fetched, but how many times does a competitor agonize over just one target?... from my experience, quite a few.

Of course, if you're Super-Shooter, after that first squib you could quickly thumb the selector and still get that first target despite your inertia trigger
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Old April 9, 2010, 12:43 PM   #24
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Ya gotta love Zippy's explanations ....

I want to be just like him when I grow up ...and pictures and everything ...

Well said my friend !
-----------------------------

Lambertsteeth ... your point is well taken on the cost of guns like a Kolar and Krieghoff ( and I don't own either of them ) .... / although we're discussing the concept of triggers ...not the price of guns.

When it comes to a Kolar or Krieghoff its not the mechanical triggers they use - that bumps the price up more than a few bucks ...its the other workmanship, the quality of the barrels, receiver, man hours, etc ( and reputation probably) that accounts for the expense ...and the custom fitting, etc ... They are certainly expensive ....but they are also very nice, well made guns ( and if my wife is listening, one would make a nice 60th birthday present honey ...) !
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Old April 9, 2010, 04:02 PM   #25
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learning

I've always told b people to listen to the big guys.
I've just learned something. Let me get this straight -
Quote:
Of course, if you're Super-Shooter, after that first squib you could quickly thumb the selector and still get that first target despite your inertia trigger
Not Super Shooter but
The gun doesn't fire the lower barrel (the one that I've selected).....all I have to do is push the selector and I then can fire the top barrel. Is that correct?
Pete
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