The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 30, 2010, 02:02 PM   #1
dratner
Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2010
Posts: 15
Slightly Newbish Question about the AR-15 format

Thinking about buying an AR-15 and mostly they are chambered in .223 which is fine but I also see that some manufactures have them .308.

I already own a Savage bolt action in .308 and I could see the advantage of owning a AR in the same caliber so as to save $$$ on reloading equipment.

So because of the modular nature of the AR format, is it hard to convert a .223 to .308 or do you have to change out everything and you might as well buy an AR in .308 to begin with. ????

Also, anyone ever fired a .308 AR? Your opinion.
dratner is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:09 PM   #2
ghostman1960
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 99
There really are no parts that are interchangeable between a .223 and a .308 on a AR platform. That being said I would go with the .223 version to due to ammunition costs and parts availability.
ghostman1960 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:15 PM   #3
Lavid2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2007
Posts: 2,568
What do you save with reloading equipment
-New dies for .223-50 bucks MAX
-Maybe new cutting equipment -20 bucks
-New primer seater-15 bucks
-New powder for .223 loads (Powder is the same $$ as .308 powder you use LESS though...My .308 uses about 45 grains, .223 is half that...)
-New bullets(Save money, .308 cost 20 cents or up, .223 starts at around 8 cents for jacketed stuff and up...lots of money being saved)
-Primers cost less, about 2-3 bucks per 1,000
-Casings cost less


You save nothing with reloading equipment....Maximum you will spend 100...and that is very very liberal. .223 is so much cheaper than .308 this 100$ isn't even a factor.

.308 AR's cost a lot....parts are harder to come by and the magazines are more expensive.




Now, after all that bashing. I think that the AR-10 is one of the most versatile platforms. It is inherently accurate and if I could have one guna nd only one gun for everything and anything it would be an AR10 or a AR15 in another cool caliber like 6.5 grendel or 6.8 SPC...


AR15 is MUCH cheaper dont kid yourself

AR10 is bad ass though : )
__________________
Math>Grammar
Lavid2002 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:16 PM   #4
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
.308 is not (cannot) be chambered in an AR-15, as the action is too short. The AR type rifle that handles it is the AR-10. One cannot use -15 uppers on -10's lowers and vice versa. AFAIK there is no parts interchangeability between the two AR platforms, although I honestly don't know off hand if they use the same fire control groups.

And if you get an AR-10, be aware that they are much less common than -15's and parts availability is sketchy/expensive. The magazines are also very expensive, hard to find, and even more fragile than the average -15 magazine (or were the last time I looked into it, which was years ago admittedly).
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:21 PM   #5
Lavid2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2007
Posts: 2,568
AR15 lower vs AR10 lower


Pistol grip is the same, and the stock is the same, but the buffer tube and buffer spring...and...the buffer are different :P

Very few things are the same.
__________________
Math>Grammar
Lavid2002 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:26 PM   #6
dratner
Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2010
Posts: 15
Lavid,

Those are good points, I guess there really isn't that much of a cost savings. When you add it up.

I am thinking of buying an inexpensive used AR the next time I pass through Alabama ( i still hold a AL license) and building it up over time.

Not exactly sure what the rules are about bringing a gun purchased in another state into California but buying one in CA is, well frustrating.
dratner is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:46 PM   #7
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
If you already have .308 ammo, and you plan on reloading .308,

let me suggest:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/27445


or, if you want to go the cheapie route:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/2657
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:46 PM   #8
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
Standard AR's are not legal in CA.
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:48 PM   #9
ghostman1960
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 99
You cannot legally bring a AR15 into California. They are banned there. You need to buy a California compliant AR in California. Do not get caught importing a AR15 into California. Do not get caught with an unregistered AR15 in California brought in from another state. Big no no in the land of fruits and nuts.
ghostman1960 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:48 PM   #10
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Not exactly sure what the rules are about bringing a gun purchased in another state into California but buying one in CA is, well frustrating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...te)#California
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum

Last edited by greyson97; March 30, 2010 at 02:58 PM.
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:57 PM   #11
dratner
Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
You cannot legally bring a AR15 into California. They are banned there. You need to buy a California compliant AR in California. Do not get caught importing a AR15 into California. Do not get caught with an unregistered AR15 in California brought in from another state. Big no no in the land of fruits and nuts.

ARRGH! I love California but really, what the hell man?
dratner is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:58 PM   #12
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
you honestly didnt know about california and gun control laws?
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:01 PM   #13
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
"Hay guys, I just moved to England and teh Customs dood sez I can't bring my AK lol?"

Seriously, I find it nigh impossible to believe a California resident into guns would be that ignorant of their draconian laws. I smell either troll or teenager.
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:01 PM   #14
DnPRK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2001
Location: LC, Ca
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
ARRGH! I love California but really, what the hell man?
Bad info.
There have been over 100,000 AR-15 style rifles purchased in California in the last 4 years. Just make sure your AR complies with California law. Go to calguns.net for more info about how to obtain a California compliant AR.
DnPRK is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:04 PM   #15
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
AR-15 style, perhaps. But no real AR's.
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:05 PM   #16
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
i really wouldnt call a california compliant "ar-15" an ar-15

fixed stock, 10 round mags, and you cant swap the mags unless you have a tool to do so. Finger pushable buttons are illegal. no flash hiders or bayonette lugs
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:20 PM   #17
dratner
Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
Seriously, I find it nigh impossible to believe a California resident into guns would be that ignorant of their draconian laws. I smell either troll or teenager.
Not ignorant of the laws of guns purchased WITHIN California. I have seen what they have available and frankly its a sad state of affairs.

However, I didn't think that they didn't have the same rules for guns that were previously purchased legitimately in other states. (sigh) Whats next, are they going to tell me that I can't wear jeans purchased in another state?

From a purely legal standpoint, I still retain my AL license, I guess I could claim that I am not a California resident.
dratner is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:25 PM   #18
rjrivero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by dratner
From a purely legal standpoint, I still retain my AL license, I guess I could claim that I am not a California resident.
You don't have to be a California Resident gain entry into in their Jails.
rjrivero is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 04:46 PM   #19
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
I can't take an AR to California on a hunting trip where the destination is California. All I can do is pass through the state without stopping except to rest/eat and even that if you get caught you will have one hell of a legal battle i would guess and might not come out on top for a decade.

Possession of an AR is illegal in California in the same way that possession of heroin is illegal.

Actually, it might be better to be caught with 6 pounds of heroin than an AR in California.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 05:08 PM   #20
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
Pretending to be a resident of a state in order to buy a gun there is already kinda sketchy, legally speaking.
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 05:41 PM   #21
dratner
Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
Actually, it might be better to be caught with 6 pounds of heroin than an AR in California.
LOL, you might be right. I guess its a stripped down Cali AR-15 for me. Damn, that sucks because I know my fav. gun shop in Huntsville probably has like 20 good used AR-15's at any given time. Good deals to be had.

Argh...this rubs me the all the wrong ways but what can you do.
dratner is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 08:59 PM   #22
LloydXmas250
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 334
Not saying the regular AR is the same as a CA AR, but you are misguided on a few things here. Stocks can be adjustable and the button that you need a tool for is really not a huge deal. You can use the tip of a bullet to release it. No speacial tool is needed. Sure it's not a true AR, but a true AR is an automatic weapon and not many of those are around either.
LloydXmas250 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 09:10 PM   #23
DJARMAN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2010
Location: Georgetown, CA
Posts: 2
3 weeks ago I purchased an AR-15 A-3 legally in CA. Only requirement is that it not have a detachible magazine. My AR has a "Bullet Buton", which means I can't release the mag by my hand. I can release it with anything sharp, ballpoint pen, bullet, etc. It's no big deal. I shoot the hell out of that thing and I'm now used to the squirelly mag release. And, yes, it has an adjustable stock. If you want anymore info just pm me.
DJARMAN is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 09:22 PM   #24
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,841
California is where so many things get started...

Including the push for banning "assault weapons". They did their ban on better than the national 1994 AWB, theirs has no sunset provision, and a lot of other requirements as well.

They have restrictions on folding/collapsable stocks, detatchable magazines, and many other features on what they term "assault weapons".

Basically, no guns not meeting the CA restrictions are allowed to be sold, or even brought into the state. Period. Move to CA with a fully legal AR-15 from any other state? Sell the gun before you go, or leave it behind. No other option. Take it into CA, get caught with it, go to jail. AND enjoy convicted felon status the rest of your life.

The AR-10 and the AR-15 have a few parts that are common, but most of the parts are not interchangable.

If you want an AR legal in CA, you won't get the same gun you could get if you lived in another state. Fixed magazine, for one. Kind of takes a lot of the fun out of it for most of us.

Quote:
but a true AR is an automatic weapon
This is not true. Any gun made by Armalite is a "true AR", including all the semi auto ones. Any AR pattern gun is commonly referred to as an AR, no matter who made it, just as AK-47 pattern guns are commonly all called AKs.

As to the pair of rifles greyson97 suggests, I have had both, and the M1A (top pic) is much more reloader friendly than the HK/PTR/CETME pictured below.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 10:45 PM   #25
LloydXmas250
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 334
Love that a question about an AR becomes a CA bashing thread. Don't attack the Californians defending our guns here. We're doing the best we can to keep them around. If not for us, they would all probably be banned by now. And as with many many laws, what happens in CA follows in the rest of the Union. Remember medical marijuana? Attack the pansies who pass these laws. Lord knows I'm not voting for them. I've also never seen a ban on collapsable or folding stocks. Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen it the whole time I've lived here.
LloydXmas250 is offline  
Reply

Tags
.308 , ar-15 , conversion , review

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11907 seconds with 7 queries