The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 30, 2010, 06:49 AM   #26
misnomerga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 137
I agree with Hook 686's idea. A fanny pack would be pretty unobtrusive but allow you to carry a full sized gun that would be ready when needed. I can fit my P-226 in my fanny pack with no problem. I also use a Kramer shirt holster. It fits the gun under your arm so if you are wearing a button shirt all you do is unbutton one button and you can access your weapon. Stashing weapons around the store might prove to be a Easter egg hunt bounty for some customer of yours, i.e. they find and relieve you of a gun while you are busy with someone else, or you deliver a sofa and a gun to some customer's house because you forgot to get the gun out of the sofa that has been sitting in your showroom for ages and nobody would ever buy that ugly thing, or the battery to the gun safe died and you need the key to manually override to open the safe. Just too many things could go wrong in making your way to the closest stashed gun, like another innocent customer happens to be blocking your path. My choice would be to find some way to have the gun with you at all times.
misnomerga is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 10:20 AM   #27
Need2know
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2010
Posts: 11
Thanks for all the help, guys.

buck9, about that belly band, I may just try one of those. Curious if you have much belly to deal with? I have my share, and that is part of the carry problem. With a growing belly and a, um, shrinking butt, it does not take much weight on the belt before people would start singing "pants on the ground".

I have my Smith in my pocket right now, and with these pants it works pretty well. I think that I need a pocket holster to keep it upright, as it sometimes sags to the side. Any suggestions for a thin one?
My Smith is the six-shot .32 H&R hammerless version.

Has anyone ever tried the Ken Null City Slicker? It does indeed look pretty slick online, and I think that might work for my situation.

Again, thanks to all for making me welcome here.
Need2know is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:33 AM   #28
FreakGasolineFight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Location: Ohio.
Posts: 634
I've heard great things about the 5.11 Holster Shirts.

http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Ho...:10801/I/40011

Probably going to grab one of them myself once the next paycheck comes in.
__________________
"The CZ75 is made of win and longcats."--anonymous youtube comment
FreakGasolineFight is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:46 AM   #29
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,355
Quote:
I own a small furniture store. I do not want my customers to see me carrying.
Ummm..............Concealed is Concealed. No one but you should know you are carrying, if they do, its not concealed.

I use the pocket carry with my 642. Shoot half the time I forget its there.

Yeah, there are better guns then the 642, but a small revolver in the pocket beats a heavy gun in the truck.........or in your case, behind the counter or in a store room.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:50 AM   #30
Hook686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2005
Location: USA The Great State of California
Posts: 1,899
http://www.jagwear.com/ is a good source for a body belt (belly band) holster, concealment pack (fanny pack), or pocket holster. Take a look. These products work for me, and do not cost an arm and a leg.
__________________
Hook686

When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.
Hook686 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 12:27 PM   #31
firespec35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Since you own a furniture store I'd assume you dress business casual most of the time.
You like the 1911.
What about getting a stiffer belt look at beltman.com and a commander or officer size 1911 in a tuckable IWB. I have one from high noon and dig it. I'm able to do anything with it. Just buy your shirts a bit bigger and you're good.
__________________
Never Forget 9/11/01

S&W 669
firespec35 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:13 PM   #32
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,557
Need2know, there are a plethora of 9mm, and .45's out there that can easily be stuffed into a front pants pocket, . . . and still deliver up to 13 or 14 rounds of ammo in one mag. You just need to go to a good sized gun shop and take a look at them.

You will also need a good pocket holster for it, . . . and it would maybe help if you went to britches something like those dockers with the larger pockets, or some Dickie work pants, . . . you can carry a dressed out small moose in some of those pockets.

You also might look at the idea of cargo pants, . . . put a thigh holster under those cargoes, . . . cut out the back of the thigh pocket, . . . heck you could hide a .50 desert eagle that way. Talk about a spooked boogie man when he sees that cannon targeting his snot locker or the second button on his shirt.

Be creative, . . . but above all, . . . try to carry on your body. Loose and/or unattended weapons are a BADDDDDD idea, . . . and anything that you have to go get, . . . well, you're already behind the eight ball, . . . having to go get your firepower just about cancels even having one there, not completely, but just about.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 02:36 PM   #33
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,049
Quote:
I've heard great things about the 5.11 Holster Shirts.
Very cool, thanks!
spacecoast is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 03:40 PM   #34
sakeneko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2009
Location: Nevada
Posts: 644
Need2know, I started carrying a year ago. I'm female, but like many Type II diabetics I have a big belly, so I have to conceal around that just as you do. My best concealed carry method is a belly band just under my bra. I wouldn't want to conceal anything larger than my S&W Model 60 (3" barrel) there, but the belly band works very well for that.

Good luck figuring this out. You've obviously got a real need.
sakeneko is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 05:17 PM   #35
Uncle Ben
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 400
A sub-compact 9mm would be my first choice. If you choose a small enough model you could still pocket carry it.

A small/lightweight snubnose revolver in .38 special would also work. (hammerless for better pocket carry)

You could also have a tall keypad safe in your office that you could store a pump 12gauge shotgun in. (mossberg 500 or 590 would be my recommendation) Leave the tube full w/ the chamber empty and the hammer dropped, so all you would have to do after removing it from the safe is pump in a round. If you can't get to the shotgun, just reach for the snubbie and take cover (which should be easy to do in a furniture store :-)

Also keep your cell phone on you so you can call 911 if you can't get to your office, while taking cover.
__________________
Lazy + Complacent = DISARMED
*FIGHT to keep your guns & join the NRA. Contact your representatives about 2A issues at www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials and to be kept up to date on the current issues visit www.nraila.org
Uncle Ben is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 05:29 PM   #36
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
As with so many gun problems, the solution here is more training with what you have.
Balog is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 07:10 PM   #37
cycleguru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: Orygun USA
Posts: 184
I, too, own and operate a retail business (bicycles, sports apparel, and snowboards). While I have never been threatened as you have, I carry every day. Before I got my CrossBreed Supertuck, I carried my XD9 Sub Compact in a Kramer gunshirt. It provides ultra concealability and is reasonably comfortable. My only problem was during hot weather when the gunshirt got just a little bit warm. But if it's air conditioned in your shop this may not be a problem for you.

Like I mentioned, I now carry IWB in a CrossBreed Supertuck. It's ultra comfortable and with an untucked tee shirt covering it no customer has ever even suspected that I'm carrying. Heck, my employees don't even know.

These are a couple of options for you to consider. Like so many others have said already, keep you gun on you, not hidden somewhere.
cycleguru is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 10:19 PM   #38
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 1,610
I know the owner of a small shop here who had several pairs of business-casual trousers tailor made for him, with a special right-hand pocket for his pistol. Supports the weight from the belt, and doesn't look at all like he's carrying anything except maybe a bundle of keys.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:09 PM   #39
grubbylabs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2009
Location: Hansen Idaho
Posts: 1,415
you could use a biometric safe. all you have to do is put your finger in the pad and they open up. expensive but you could build them into the walls or what ever and stash them around the store.
__________________
* (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! *

Nope, the old nag's still dead .
(Capt Charlie)
grubbylabs is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:13 PM   #40
grumpycoconut
Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2008
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 77
If you really want to keep a long gun handy but secure look on any police supply house website and look weapon racks and electric locks. You can mount the lock/rack where ever you want and hide the release switch close by.

Look at Pro-guard.com for starters. Their stuff is designed for mounting in police cars but furniture stores can be easliy modified to fit their racks.
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
grumpycoconut is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 11:24 PM   #41
foghorn leghorn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2010
Location: In a Van down by the River
Posts: 181
I didn't notice if you were male or female.
If you don't like the trigger pull of a revolver like the Taurus Judge in .410 buckshot, and you want to
actually do more than scare away someone, i like the idea of a panic button, but on a trapdoor, in the wall like a metal utility panel. Keep a pump shotgun in there,
and use field load. Better to fight a liability case for maiming someone than to get the negligent homicide.
One click and it pops open, it can't be that difficult to wire up.
I hope you don't mind me chiming in unannounced.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Liberate America... Free the Republic
-NRA Life Member-
foghorn leghorn is offline  
Old March 31, 2010, 11:34 AM   #42
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,310
If you don't like the trigger pull of a DA revolver, but still want a small pistol for concealment, I would recommend a striker fired semi-auto (like a Glock, xD, or Walther P99c or PPS, etc).

Shotguns are effective, but you would need TIME to retrieve it from a hidden location. As you said, you move around in the store and even outside. I would assume it would be difficult to retrieve a hidden gun before the attacker could close the distance or use a weapon.

I'd also avoid any load aiming to maim an attacker. Angry attackers sometimes withstand a LOT of damage before stopping. Why risk not being able to stop an attack quickly by using an inferior load?
raimius is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 06:02 AM   #43
Dannyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Posts: 627
Two ideas commonly used this side of the world

Hi,

Here are two tips, from what many shop owners do here:
1. Cover - if you have a counter, many build into it sections of steel plate (bennox, you can use thinner plate than mild steel for the same result) these plates are hidden from the eye and provide excellent cover against bullets, a 6mm bennox plate will stop a round from an AK. if the shop is very big then perhaps a few of these can be placed so that you are never too far from cover.

2. next to these, you could have any weapon of your preference (pistol, revolver, shotgun) held in clamps so that you can just reach and grab them.
If you place the counters right they can hide all that is behind them.

Both the plates and guns are easy to conceal from the wandering eye.

Now you have points of cover and weapons placed where you are never too far from them, and what you carry on you needs only be sufficient to allow you to move towards the cover / weapon.

It goes without saying that these should be placed in a manner that is not accessible to non-staff members...

Brgds,

Danny

Last edited by Dannyl; April 1, 2010 at 08:18 AM.
Dannyl is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 09:17 AM   #44
bababooey32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 161
Quote:
I was feeling pretty safe with what I had---until my run-in with a bad man who made a credible threat on my life.
So....You felt safe with unknown badmen (which are omnipresent), but now you feel unsafe because a bad man has notified you of his presence?

If you felt safe with a snubbie before the bad men announced themselves, why would it be different now that they are announced?
bababooey32 is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 10:49 AM   #45
45Gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 1,722
You certainly have a unique situation. Lots of good suggestions offered. I think I would investigate the belly bag, the 5.11 underwear shirt holster, and the Crossbreed Super Tuck.

I utilize a belly bag every once in awhile and find it convenient although not the quickest way to get to your gun but sure beats hiding guns about the store. A good friend, whom considers himself the master of concealment, swears by his Crossbreed Super Tuck although I have no personal experience. An underwear shirt holster would certainly offer concealment but may be a little uncomfortable.

Good luck...be safe.
__________________
45Gunner
May the Schwartz Be With You.
NRA Instructor
NRA Life Member
45Gunner is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 10:59 AM   #46
Need2know
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2010
Posts: 11
So, I felt safe------

bababooey, I guess that is what they call a reality check.
A theoretical threat just does not have the same emotional impact as a real one right in front of you. Live and learn.
Need2know is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 11:17 AM   #47
Need2know
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2010
Posts: 11
That was an important point, and I'm going to elaborate on that a bit.
I guess that we all do the exercise of envisioning scenarios in which we might be at risk. It is good to remember that this is not reality, at best just a guess.

I had always thought that any threat to me would be random, that I might just be a target of opportunity. I shoot my NAA .22 mag Pug, and get a big blast and a hell of a noise.
Easy to think that would change the mind of some punk, regardless of where or if you hit him. And it might well do just that. Even the sight of a Smith snubby suddenly appearing in hand might convince one to seek an easier target.

I also always imagined such encounters as being up close. I can hit with either gun up close.

But this was personal. This was a confrontation, and I made a very bad man very angry. Now, when I envisioned him coming back with gun in hand, my weapons seemed small and limited. And I am not going to let him get close to me again. I am 5' 10" and mid-fifties. He is eight inches taller and thirty years younger. I look like, and am, a business man. He looks like, and is, a gangster. We stood toe to toe and I ordered him off of the property, where he was "doing business". I was too mad to be scared at the time.
I am not ashamed to admit that I was very scared later that day.

I want longer range capability and a better chance of a quick stop.
Is that more understandable now?
Need2know is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 03:52 PM   #48
bababooey32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 161
Fair enough!
bababooey32 is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 06:04 PM   #49
Balog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 259
You might take a look at the Defensive Carry forums for some more ideas. The Super Tuck is highly thought of over there.

Do (or can) you generally wear oversize guyaberra [sp?] type shirts? A shoulder holster can work under one of them.
Balog is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 06:19 PM   #50
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: IN
Posts: 1,713
Have you called the cops???

This will be invaluable should you have to stop this fellow or even shoot him.

As for the firearm, there's nothing wrong with what you've been carrying. If you want more firepower that is also concealable, try the Kel Tec P11. It's both thin and light for a compact 9mm. Carry an extra S&W 59 series mag - 17 rounds in a mag carrier sideways on your belt. It'll look like a cell phone case. The P11 can go IWB and still be very comfortable.

DO NOT leave empty pistol lying around.
__________________
"With great power, there must also come great responsibility." - Stan Lee

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Onward Allusion is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13440 seconds with 7 queries