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Old March 20, 2010, 06:49 PM   #1
trg42wraglefragle
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223 silencer

hello all.

i have a silencer for my remington 22lr, its one that slips over the barrel and you lock down with a hose clamp.
today i discovered it fits onto my 223 tikka, and i was wondering would it work as a supressor for my 223 or will it make my silencer explode or something similar?

thanks
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Old March 20, 2010, 06:53 PM   #2
Avenger29
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It is most likely not designed to take the pressure and will be damaged. I would not attempt to use it on a .223 caliber weapon.

I don't know the availability or cost of suppressors in New Zealand, though, so for all I know you could easily acquire one in .223 for a low price.
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Old March 20, 2010, 07:21 PM   #3
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It will do the same thing to your can that fueling your car with nitromethane would do. Turn it into a large number of very tiny parts spread over a wide area.

In short, very bad idea.
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Old March 20, 2010, 10:23 PM   #4
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.223 is actually just slightly wider than a .22 round.

That, in addition to the much more massive pressure behind the round would likely destroy or at the very least heavily damage your supressor.
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Old March 21, 2010, 03:51 AM   #5
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Does a bullet fit through it? Try dropping one through it....


There will be pressure problems no doubt. But as mentioned...its any ones guess as to whether it will take the abuse or not.

Give it a shot, record it
Tikkas aren't expensive are they??
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Old March 21, 2010, 05:57 AM   #6
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22lr Can on a 223 weapon

The amount of gas being processed through a .223 Suppressor is ~1700x the amount of gas being processed in a 22LR Can. The Universal Gas Law indicates that the function of Gas produced under pressure is exponentially higher in Volume, Pressure and more importantly heat.

As to the Can you currently are using, you mention that it's secured with a "hose clamp"? All of my cans are a bi-lock connector. Having said that, I will say that the Bi-Lock shows signs of thrusting forward after about 500 rounds.

Lastly, back to the clamp, and to a lesser degree, the suppressor bore diameter. Actually, I would be extremely concerned about Suppressor to barrel bore concentricity. I have seen the effects(read: severe injury) to a person who used a thread on Suppressor that was loose. It was a Gemtech on a AR15.
One shot the can became a grenade. Three people went to the hospital. The shooter was in ICU for 10days, rehab (permanently blinded) for 3 months.
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Old March 21, 2010, 07:44 AM   #7
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1,700 times more ....
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Old March 21, 2010, 11:28 AM   #8
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What everyone else is saying. Unless your silencer is a sturdy unit made from steel and/or aluminum, then it is likely to come apart when used with the 223. The hose clamp will not be able to hold the silencer onto the barrel if it merely clamps onto a smooth surface.

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Old March 21, 2010, 11:56 AM   #9
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As a rule of thumb: a .223 Silencer will work for .22LR (it's overkill, and the .22LR will dirty it up more quickly) But the .22LR silencers will not work for .223. The pressures are higher, and therefore the volume of gas that needs baffling is too great. You'll do bad things to that silencer. There's a reason .22 Cans are much cheaper than .223 cans.

This belongs in the NFA Section, IMVHO.
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Old March 22, 2010, 02:42 AM   #10
trg42wraglefragle
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hey, later that day i asked my dad if he thought it would be ok? with his little to no knowledge he thought that it should be fine (the silencer was made from PVC by the way).

so i went to a friends place and tested it....
the hose clamp held it on fine, but it exploded into lots of pieces like i thought it might. the gun was fine but i wasted my $80 silencer, luckily no one was hurt.
now im going to make myself a knew one for my 22.

now a new question,
will PVC be strong enough for a 223. silencer at all?
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Old March 22, 2010, 07:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trg42wraglefragle
will PVC be strong enough for a 223. silencer at all?
I really don't think so. Aluminum. Stainless steel. I don't think PVC is a really good idea for .223.

I may have to Summer in the land of the Kiwi so I can fiddle with constructing silencers.
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Old March 22, 2010, 09:31 AM   #12
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I think PVC would only strong enough if it was three inches wide and had 1/4 inch walls. Even something this sturdy would begin to soften and melt after a few rounds. You are much better off with steel and aluminum. I make them as a hobby and would never use PVC.

Ranb

Last edited by RAnb; March 22, 2010 at 02:13 PM.
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Old March 23, 2010, 01:29 AM   #13
trg42wraglefragle
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is it hard and expensive to make them out of aluminium?
because i dont really want to spend $400 NZD on buying one.
also do you make slip on ones? because i also dont want to get my barrel thread if possible
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Old March 23, 2010, 03:09 AM   #14
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LMFAO! You didnt tell us it was made from PVC!!!

Hahahaha of course it isnt going to hold together


You payed 80 bucks for a PVC silencer? Just buy another one...but get one made from legitimate materials this time...that threads onto the barrel.
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Old March 23, 2010, 10:11 AM   #15
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IIRC you should be able to find a thread adapter for most firearm barrels. Google it. That would be the safest way to go IMHO. It should help to keep the unit centered... at least better than a hose clamp.
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Old March 23, 2010, 12:15 PM   #16
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I'm not sure if you can make a clamp type adaptor that will hold a silencer on something as powerful as the 223 remington. I made an adaptor for my M-1 carbine to hold my 300 whisper silencer in place and one set screw torgued into a shallow dimple in the barrel was not enough, I will have to go with three screws and hope it is enough. The 223 has double the powder charge of the 30 carbine, so it needs a good solid attachment.

It should be no big deal for a gunsmith to remove the barrel, then cut threads on the muzzle end.

If you have access to a lathe, then I can show you how to make a better silencer out of steel and aluminum.

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Old March 23, 2010, 03:58 PM   #17
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Suppressor Material

My Gemtechs are either Titanium or Stainless and have had thousands of rounds through them. They are all Bi-Locks. Did NZ have the same knee jerk reaction that the land of Oz did after the nut job shot those folks in Tas? I had some gentlemen from Christchurch in a class I taught last year.
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Old March 23, 2010, 05:03 PM   #18
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I don't know your barrel lengths, but Scottish ballistician Geoffry Kolbe has a pretty good chapter on the .22 Long Rifle. He says it starts to lose velocity in a barrel at about 19". The powder charge is about 1.2 grains, according to Kolbe. Assuming similar powder constituent compounds, a .223 charged with 24 grains AR2210 makes about 20 times more gas. Add in that you have about 4 times greater peak pressure in the smaller expansion ratio .223 chambering, and it makes for somewhat disproportionately higher muzzle pressure.

At then end of a 20" barrel .22 Long Rifle will have a muzzle pressure of about 320 psi, because the expansion ratio is high and the gas has cooled a lot by the time it gets there. A 50 grain bullet .223 load of 24 grains of AR2210 or a similar powder from a 20" barrel will have a muzzle pressure of about 7900 psi, or 25 times higher than the .22 LR. If you expand .22 LR muzzle pressure to a 2" diameter piece of PVC, the pressure will be just below 40 psi, which is typical max domestic water pressure in the U.S. If you put that same 2" tube over the muzzle of the .223, you get about 1,000 psi. Clearly above the pay grade of the PVC.

In addition, as mentioned, the gases are hotter. Since smokeless powder doesn't contain enough oxygen for truly complete combustion, when hot fuel gases exit the bore and mix with the oxygen in air, a secondary gas explosion often takes place, appearing as a fireball and raising the pressure further. So I don't think there's much mystery as to why this apparatus blew up?

If you want to make a .223 suppressor in the same size, you need something heat resistant that is about 25 times stronger than the PVC was. Consider large diameter hydraulic tubing rated for the expected pressure.

Also, be aware that while you can suppress the muzzle blast, you can't do anything about the sonic crack of a supersonic bullet. So this isn't going to be much quieter than an unsuppressed .22 LR rifle unless you go to subsonic squib loads.
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Old March 25, 2010, 01:02 AM   #19
trg42wraglefragle
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its really easy to get silencers in NZ, you can just go to the shop and buy one no hassles at all.
i wanted to make one out of PVC because im really cheap and didnt want to buy a proper one lol.
i could pick up a aluminium one for about $400 NZD, which isnt to bad but as i said im cheap and id ratha spend that money on a new scope which is going to be $1000 NZD if i can get it from the US.

By the way, does anyone know where i can buy a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 tactical scope from a private dealer so i dont have to pay import tax? lol
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Old March 25, 2010, 04:41 PM   #20
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Suppressors here take all sorts of hoops being jumped through to obtain. All the result of Hollywood portraying the devices as more capable of quieting guns than they actually are. So, lots of vivid imaginations got working and believing they would give killers and assassins free reign. Lot's of legislation gets enacted based on how people imagine things work rather than how they actually work.

As to your scope, that's all gotten very difficult since 9/11. All sorts of things, including shooting optics can no longer be exported without some sort of special permit, and the penalties for sneaking around the requirement can be severe. Lots of Canadian hunters used to cross the boarder to buy reloading supplies in the U.S., where they are often cheaper, but can no longer do it. We have a lot to get even with Al Quaeda for.

You can use PVC for the .223 if you make it big enough. Just 25 times bigger than it was for .22 Rim Fire. Probably still need metal baffles, though.
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Old March 26, 2010, 10:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Suppressors here take all sorts of hoops being jumped through to obtain.
I only jump through one hoop. I submit the ATF form 1 along with form 5330.20, a copy of my trust and a check for $200. The ATF and FBI do the rest of the jumping for me while I wait for approval.

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Old March 26, 2010, 04:20 PM   #22
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. . . ATF form 1 along with form 5330.20, a copy of my trust and a check for $200. . .
That's four hoops by my count.
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Old March 26, 2010, 07:12 PM   #23
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Ten minutes of work, one envelope, one hoop. It is an ATF rubber stamp, but still takes about 6 months now.

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Old March 26, 2010, 11:04 PM   #24
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My last 2 Form 4's have both taken about 9 weeks. Hardly the 6 months like it was at one point.
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Old March 27, 2010, 11:27 AM   #25
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You are lucky. When were they approved? My last was sent in the last week of 10/09, check cashed two weeks later, pending since 12/09.

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