Other than the 1911 what other semi-autos are available in SAO? - Page 2

KyJim · March 27, 2010, 03:19 PM

The SW M&Ps, S&W 99, Walther P-99, and Glocks are not true single action pistols. They are striker fired. On the M&Ps, Glocks and some versions of the 99s, the striker is partially cocked after each shot. I believe ATF lists them officially as double actions.

Crosshair · March 27, 2010, 07:08 PM

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Glocks are not true single action pistols. They are striker fired. On the M&Ps, Glocks and some versions of the 99s, the striker is partially cocked after each shot. I believe ATF lists them officially as double actions.

It's nothing to do with being striker fired. As was mentioned, Hi-Points are single action striker fired pistols. One way I have heard it put is that Glocks are 90% SA and 10% DA. They are a hybrid design that really should have its own classification outside the traditional DA/SA system of classification.

As for ATF classification, Glock had to convince the ATF to list them as DAO otherwise Glocks could not be imported to the US because of the "Import points" system. That and they had to convince police departments that they were true DAOs, despite them not being, in order to get many of them to adopt them.

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christcorp · March 28, 2010, 03:02 AM

Crosshair is correct. The glock is neither SAO or DAO. It's a hybrid. The striker fire is irrelevant. Striker fire simply means that instead of a hammer coming back and hitting a firing pin after being released, and the firing pin striking the primer; the firing pin itself is pulled back and locked into place. And then the sear releases the firing pin; like a crossbow would a bolt (Arrow), and the firing pin hits the primer.

But with the glock, when you jack a round into the chamber, the firing pin only goes back part way. It requires pulling the trigger to make the firing pin (Striker), go all the way back and then release forward. On a side not, I don't like the glock or other SAO type striker fired weapons for carry purposes. I don't like a gun that has the firing pin held back under spring tension, and I want a gun that has 2nd strike capabilities. You can't do that with a glock or hi-point. Fine for home defense or in a situation where you have time on your side. I don't mind carrying one with an empty chamber, but not with one in the chamber. But I still wouldn't carry one because if for whatever reason the round doesn't fire, I want to be able to pull the trigger again without chambering a new round into the gun. Chambering a round initially is fine when you have time. But once you've engaged the bad guy, I don't want to have to risk chambering again. I stick with DAO/SAO pistols with hammers.

KyJim · March 28, 2010, 11:21 AM

I understand the Glock is not a "true" double action but it sure isn't a single action. It isn't cocked fully (about 3/4 of the way). That makes it a double action in my book.

Webleymkv · March 28, 2010, 11:40 AM

In my view a Glock, for all practical purposes, is a SAO. Regardless of how exactly the striker works, you have all the attributes of a single-action trigger including a relatively short and light trigger pull and the lack of a second strike capability.

natjohnb · March 28, 2010, 01:42 PM

Some TDA's you can use as a single action and carry cocked and locked; CZ SP-01, HK USP v.1, and Taurus PT-92 come to mind.

KyJim · March 28, 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

In my view a Glock, for all practical purposes, is a SAO. Regardless of how exactly the striker works, you have all the attributes of a single-action trigger including a relatively short and light trigger pull and the lack of a second strike capability.

Wel'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the trigger is either short or light compared to my real single actions.

MythBuster · March 28, 2010, 08:10 PM

The M&P is 100% SINGLE ACTION. The trigger pull releases a fully cocked striker.

Is is a single action striker fired pistol.

sandbag · March 28, 2010, 10:03 PM

Browning,Llama,Star(no longer made),CZ75 to name a few.

Webleymkv · March 28, 2010, 11:14 PM

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Quote:
In my view a Glock, for all practical purposes, is a SAO. Regardless of how exactly the striker works, you have all the attributes of a single-action trigger including a relatively short and light trigger pull and the lack of a second strike capability.
Wel'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the trigger is either short or light compared to my real single actions.

It's much closer to my real single actions (S&W 1911, Norinco Tokarev and CZ-52) then it is to my real double actions (Walther PP, CZ-75, S&W 1076, and various S&W, Ruger, Colt, and H&R revolvers).

March 27, 2010, 03:19 PM	#26
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 6,608	The SW M&Ps, S&W 99, Walther P-99, and Glocks are not true single action pistols. They are striker fired. On the M&Ps, Glocks and some versions of the 99s, the striker is partially cocked after each shot. I believe ATF lists them officially as double actions. __________________ Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.

March 28, 2010, 11:21 AM	#29
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 6,608	I understand the Glock is not a "true" double action but it sure isn't a single action. It isn't cocked fully (about 3/4 of the way). That makes it a double action in my book. __________________ Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.

March 28, 2010, 11:40 AM	#30
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,500	In my view a Glock, for all practical purposes, is a SAO. Regardless of how exactly the striker works, you have all the attributes of a single-action trigger including a relatively short and light trigger pull and the lack of a second strike capability. __________________ Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar

March 28, 2010, 10:03 PM	#34
sandbag Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 582	Other SAO's Browning,Llama,Star(no longer made),CZ75 to name a few.

March 28, 2010, 03:02 AM	#28
christcorp Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 1,107	Crosshair is correct. The glock is neither SAO or DAO. It's a hybrid. The striker fire is irrelevant. Striker fire simply means that instead of a hammer coming back and hitting a firing pin after being released, and the firing pin striking the primer; the firing pin itself is pulled back and locked into place. And then the sear releases the firing pin; like a crossbow would a bolt (Arrow), and the firing pin hits the primer. But with the glock, when you jack a round into the chamber, the firing pin only goes back part way. It requires pulling the trigger to make the firing pin (Striker), go all the way back and then release forward. On a side not, I don't like the glock or other SAO type striker fired weapons for carry purposes. I don't like a gun that has the firing pin held back under spring tension, and I want a gun that has 2nd strike capabilities. You can't do that with a glock or hi-point. Fine for home defense or in a situation where you have time on your side. I don't mind carrying one with an empty chamber, but not with one in the chamber. But I still wouldn't carry one because if for whatever reason the round doesn't fire, I want to be able to pull the trigger again without chambering a new round into the gun. Chambering a round initially is fine when you have time. But once you've engaged the bad guy, I don't want to have to risk chambering again. I stick with DAO/SAO pistols with hammers.

March 28, 2010, 01:42 PM	#31
natjohnb Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 507	Some TDA's you can use as a single action and carry cocked and locked; CZ SP-01, HK USP v.1, and Taurus PT-92 come to mind.

March 28, 2010, 08:10 PM	#33
MythBuster Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2007 Posts: 629	The M&P is 100% SINGLE ACTION. The trigger pull releases a fully cocked striker. Is is a single action striker fired pistol.