The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 24, 2010, 11:21 AM   #26
Texas Rifleman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2007
Posts: 287
At $10 a box, 50,000 rounds of 9mm would cost $10,000. At $18 a box .45ACP would be $18,000 . I just don't have enough money to shoot that much even over the course of a few years. Phew.
__________________
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose." - James Earl Jones
Texas Rifleman is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 11:27 AM   #27
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
At $10 a box, 50,000 rounds of 9mm would cost $10,000. At $18 a box .45ACP would be $18,000
yeah i hear that. I have 5 9mm weapons, and i bring at most 200 9mm rounds to the range. i go to the range 2 times a month

so if i were to consistently go 2 times every month for a year, and shot 40 rounds through each weapon evenly each visit, id shoot 80 rounds a month, and 960 rounds a year.

so in 10 years i'd have shot 9,600 rounds per gun.
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum

Last edited by greyson97; March 24, 2010 at 03:18 PM.
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 11:32 AM   #28
Texas Rifleman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2007
Posts: 287
What about these guys that say they shoot 3,000 rounds a month? Don't get me wrong, I wish I could shoot that much. Their pistols must go through hell and back. If that's the case I would really start to look at which pistol is going to last...but in the same breath if they can afford that much ammo they could just buy a new gun.
__________________
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose." - James Earl Jones
Texas Rifleman is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 02:11 PM   #29
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,480
cost factor

Who cares?

I don't have the money to "wear out" any of my guns. And if I did, I'd have the money to get them fixed or replaced.

If we are talking about actually wearing the gun out, that is, the frame suffering wear induced failure (because every other part can be replaced), how long should that take?

How many times do you buy the gun in cost of ammo, before you figure you have gotten your money's worth out of it? 5 times? 10? 25? 100?

Lets just use some simple numbers (even though they no longer accurately reflect market costs, there is still a valid parallel). If the gun costs $500, and ammo is $10/100, then the cost of the gun in rounds is...5000 right?

How long does it take you to shoot 5,000 rounds? A year? 5 years? more? And then, balance this against all the other factors in your shooting life. Are you getting good value from a gun that lasts longer than its cost in ammo? Are you getting enough value? How much is enough?

We have some very high round count shooters (or people claiming to be) here on the Internet. Nobody I know personally shoots as much as some of the folks posting here. I don't. So I have to wonder, just how important is it to most of us? I have guns that I have owned and shot fairly regularly for 30 years, that are just now coming up on the 5k round count. And no signs of trouble for them (significant failure, minor parts wear accepted).

IF you shoot 5k rounds a year, and in say 3 years, your gun is worn out (frame), did you get cheated by the maker? I don't think so. I just think you used 100% of the gun's life, something most of us don't ever do.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 03:07 PM   #30
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,894
Out of all of the appliances and machines made today - dishwasher, microwave oven, mechanical watches, automobile, boat, plane, etc. are there any, besides guns, that are made to be used over multiple lifetimes?

So, for $500 - $1,000, you really get a heck of a lot of value for your money. You can buy one gun, say a Browning Hi-Power, CZ75, good 1911, or just about any other gun in that price range and be assured that it will outlast you, your children and grandchildren, with just a minimal amount of care.

What is my $25,000 Jeep going to look and work like in 100 years, or even 20 years, with a minimal amount of care?
Skans is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 03:10 PM   #31
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,386
I think the relatively modern steel guns will hold up very well - in terms of 1911's from Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer - even Kimber probably....and for the better mfg's of the DA/SA guns made in steel ...I think they will do well also ( now for alloy frames, like the standard Sigs, I don't know --- )...

I shoot a lot / its a major hobby ...and I reload (and I like to reload ) - and in one of my primary guns like a Wilson Combat 1911 Protector (all stainless) in 9mm I shoot about 200 rds a week / so call it 10,000 - 12,000 rds a year. My current gun is about 3 yrs old - and no signs of any issues / but I expect it to go at least 100,000 rds..

I have other Wilson's / one 10 yrs old - that has at least 50,000 rds thru it as well - and no issues / in fact its my primary carry gun in .45 acp ....a 5" Wilson CQB model.

I have a couple all stainless Sig 226's ( that are 3 yrs old ) - and my boys and the grandkids ( 10 of them now ) shoot the daylights out of those guns ... at least 10,000 rds a year - and no issues on any of them ( in 9mm and .40S&W ) ...

I have some old K and N frame S&W revolvers ... that are 35 yrs old ...that have to all be over 25,000 - 50,000 rds thru them with no issues ....

I don't own any polymer frame guns / not that they are bad guns / I just don't care for them. I do put a lot of rounds thru my guns / but I also maintain them very well.

and I put a lot of rounds thru my Browning O/U shotguns too ... some of those guns get 7,500 - 12,500 shells thru them in a year also ...and they are all holding up just fine .......

Most of these guns ( I'm only 60 yrs old ) - I hope, will be passed down in my family for at least 2 or 3 generations / maybe I'll have to have some of them rebuilt ... maybe not ....but compared to the fun I've had with them ...its worth every penny ! Its only my opinion / but I don't think 100,000 rds thru a modern steel semi-auto / a well made gun like a Wilson / is out of the question - and probably more...

and to pick up on Skans comments - my 2004 Lexus SUV, that I paid $ 65K for 6 yrs ago now ... will probably run another 5 or 6 yrs .... maybe 150,000 total miles ...and still stay tight ... but it sure pales in comparison to what a $ 3,000 gun from Wilson Combat will do ....( and it cost a heck of a lot more money ..).
BigJimP is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 03:17 PM   #32
Leejack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: The Alamo!
Posts: 2,024
Not to get anyone stirred up or anything, but:

During the 90's I put countless trouble free rounds through my Taurus PT99.

I stopped counting, so I do not know the actual number, but it was thousands and thousands for sure.

Lee
Leejack is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 03:32 PM   #33
Mastiff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Posts: 115
I bought 2 Norinco Model 213's (a Tokarev clone in 9mm) in 1992. I put one in the safe and shot the other one till the year before last. I had over 55,000 rounds through that pistol before I gave it to my brother. It is still going strong. All I ever replaced was the springs. I only buy all-steel guns, the only ones that were not milsurps were my Norinco's.
__________________
What are the facts? Again and again and again—what are the facts? —what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts! -Robert A Heinlein
Mastiff is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 03:53 PM   #34
dogngun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2002
Location: South east PA
Posts: 555
Depends.

I read a post elsewhere just today from a guy who bought a used Phillipine-made ARMSCOR/ Rock Island 1911. It was a range rental gun for several years and had a round count of 50,000 through it, minimum. He bought it - cheap- cleaned it well, changed the springs andthe extractor, took it to a gunsmith who found that everything was still well in spec.

He says it's still very accurate, too.

Mine is from '04 and will never have that many rounds through it, but it's interesting to know.

mark
__________________
I am another gun-carrying liberal veteran.
dogngun is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 04:05 PM   #35
jaydubya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2006
Location: Sandy Eggo
Posts: 430
It's all about maintenance and springs. You do the maintenance so it is free, and springs are cheap. As someone earlier said, the itty-bitty parts (roll pins, extractors, etc.) may wear, but are usually easliy bought and replaced. The big pieces are essentially immortal -- if you do your part.

Someone earlier spoke of the Inglis version of the Hi Power, used still by Commonwealth soldiers. I recently saw a picture of Prince William wearing one on his chest, while deployed with his unit in Afghanistan. The finish was very worn, but I am sure it would fire and reload every time the trigger was pulled. I bought my T-series Browning Hi Power (with two spare magazines) in 1968, and carried it as my personal weapon on several cruises flying from carriers during the Vietnam War. It then sat in my sock drawer, still loaded with Navy ball, for about thirty years. Becoming interested in shooting again about eight years ago, I have pumped more than seven thousand (stopped counting) rounds down range from that pistol. I have replaced the recoil spring four times, the firing pin spring twice, and the magazine springs and main spring once. It sits in my sock drawer right now, finish almost perfect, all bearing surfaces ditto, loaded with Speer STANDARD PRESSURE 124gr Gold Dots. I expect that one of my grandsons will inherit it.

Cordially, Jack
jaydubya is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 05:16 PM   #36
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,407
The typical acceptance tests for military guns includes firing it for 10,000 rds without any failures ! This is a good reason to buy a gun designed for the military such as H&K Glock etc ! Using standard ammo instead of +P or +P+, cleaning and lube often will improve the life !
mete is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 05:26 PM   #37
FreakGasolineFight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Location: Ohio.
Posts: 634
Quote:
Cars are designed to last for about 150,000 miles with no major probles, or about 12 years, whichever comes first.
Not if you drive a nineteen-year-old Toyota. 339,000 miles and counting.
__________________
"The CZ75 is made of win and longcats."--anonymous youtube comment
FreakGasolineFight is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 11:05 PM   #38
mec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2001
Posts: 1,530
Elmer Keith went into print that a 1911 barrel was good for about 5000 rounds. His early shooting with one of these seems to have been with corrosive primed military ball ammunition. A friend would bring him a case along with a fresh barrel evey few months. Most recent experience indicates that these barrels actually last a lot longer than that.
mec is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 09:10 AM   #39
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,016
There are many documented steel framed pistols having in excess of 100,000 rounds throught them. How accurate the barrel is may be debateable.

There are many Glocks that have well in excess or 200,000 rounds fired through them.

Most of the aluminum framed pistols such as the Sig's and Beretta's seem to be pretty much worn out at between 30,000 to 50,000 rounds.
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 02:15 PM   #40
HangingRock
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2
S&W4506 over a period of twenty years slightly over 35,000 rounds fired. I reload but even at that it wasn’t cheap.
HangingRock is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 04:33 PM   #41
Rinspeed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2000
Posts: 1,125
Quote:
There are many Glocks that have well in excess or 200,000 rounds fired through them.



I doubt there are many of any pistol with an excess of 200,000 rounds through them.
Rinspeed is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 04:45 PM   #42
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,807
Quote:
Quote:
There are many Glocks that have well in excess or 200,000 rounds fired through them.


Quote:
I doubt there are many of any pistol with an excess of 200,000 rounds through them.
I would like to see data provided to back both these statements up and Skans has a very good point.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 05:29 PM   #43
Rinspeed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2000
Posts: 1,125
Quote:
I would like to see data provided to back both these statements up and Skans has a very good point.


How on earth could I provide data to prove something doesn't exist. I've been shooting for thirty years and reading these goofy forums since the internet became widespread. I've heard or read of only a handful pistols that have had more than 125,000 rounds shot through them.

Last edited by Rinspeed; March 25, 2010 at 09:15 PM.
Rinspeed is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 07:58 PM   #44
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,016
http://goldismoney.info/forums/archi.../t-368347.html

This is from 1995 when Chuck Taylor had 100,000 rounds through his Glock




http://www.notpurfect.com/main/glock.htm

This is a later report where he has surpassed 250,000 rounds and still counting.
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 08:48 PM   #45
greyson97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
This is a later report where he has surpassed 250,000 rounds and still counting.
they didnt specify what caliber that i read

Price of glock = ~$500
Cost of 250,000 9mm rounds @ $10 for 50 = $50,000
Cost of 250,000 .40 s&w @ $14 for 50 = $70,000
Cost of 250,000 .45 acp @ $19 for 50 = $95,000

now of course thats not the real cost of all the ammo through that one particular gun across the years, but thats what it would cost in todays money.
__________________
"Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy

si vis pacem, para bellum
greyson97 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 07:50 AM   #46
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,016
In the 1st article it points out that he owns a G17, in 9mm. The 2nd article is not nearly as informative as I thought it might be. When I googled Chuck Taylor and Glock I cut and pasted the one about the 250,000 round count without reading it first.

I'm not really a Glock fanboy. There are several of the plastic framed pistols that have proven that they can hold up to a lot of abuse. It's just that there is more data on the Glocks.

The fact that steel framed guns last a long time is not surprising. Most people are surprised to find that the plastic guns will last much longer than much more expensive aluminum framed guns. And while I cannot find any data to prove or disprove it, the plastic guns may well outlast the steel guns.
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 08:22 AM   #47
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,894
Quote:
And while I cannot find any data to prove or disprove it, the plastic guns may well outlast the steel guns.
That's possible...but we really just don't know, and aren't likely to find out in our lifetimes. I sure would like to be around, though, when someone finally determines whether plasti-pistols or steel pistols made in the early 21st century are the most durable and long lasting.
Skans is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 09:03 AM   #48
ecw7907
Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2009
Posts: 36
Semi Auto life

Kel tec says expect 6000 on theirs. I've heard Walthers going 30,000 rds. Sig Sauer's can go 30,000 rds too. The average high end AUTO can be expected to go 30,000 rds. A Phoenix HP will go as much as 3,000 rds and still work; to give a range of comparison.
ecw7907 is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 09:14 AM   #49
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,807
Quote:
How on earth could I provide data to prove something doesn't exist. I've been shooting for thirty years and reading these goofy forums since the internet became widespread. I've heard or read of only a handful pistols that have had more than 125,000 rounds shot through them.
Then all we have above is opinion. Like many have posted I my self do not see ME having the money or time to gain the data and prove how many rounds it will take to wear pistol (X) out
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old March 26, 2010, 11:12 AM   #50
Rinspeed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2000
Posts: 1,125
Quote:
Then all we have above is opinion.



I thought that was pretty obvious, must be not.
Rinspeed is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12643 seconds with 7 queries