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Old March 22, 2010, 08:26 PM   #1
Texson
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J P Sauer 24 gauge shotgun

My stepfather passed away about 20 years ago and my mother gave me a shotgun of his. For years it has been under my bed and recently I pulled it out to see if I could idenify what it actually is as far as gauge, age and worth. I took it to a local gunshop and after a few calls he found out it was a 24 gauge.

There is very little writing on it, only JB Sauer and Son. At the breech it has 12,4 mm. There is also a stamp that looks like a B with a crown on top of it. Also there seems to be a picture of an eagle but it is hard to see the details. It is a single shot, has both a front sight and rear sight. The release for the breech is a lever under the trigger.

It is in very good condition as far as wear and sloppiness is concerned, but the bluing and stock show its age.I know this is not much information, but it is all that I have. If anyone can add to it I would be grateful.By the way the gunshop offered me $200.00 for it, but before I sell it I want a little more information about it. If I am in the wrong forum I apologize. I have looked on the net for information but can find nothing.

I now have some pictures if I can learn how to attach them. I really appreciate the ones that have responed to my questions. I am new at this and learning the peoper procedure to post.

BTW, this is a great forum, thanks for your help,
Texson
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File Type: jpg DSCF0003.JPG (121.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0011.JPG (95.9 KB, 75 views)

Last edited by Texson; March 24, 2010 at 05:30 PM. Reason: New Pictures
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Old March 22, 2010, 11:13 PM   #2
olddrum1
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Texson, by chance could you post a picture or two? It is hard to put a value on a gun that you can not see. Sounds like an interesting firearm.
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Old March 23, 2010, 09:04 AM   #3
oneounceload
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IIRC, both Midway and Cabela's carry 24 gauge ammo - won't be as cheap as the wally world bulk pack, but then I doubt you'll be using this for high-volume shooting
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Old March 23, 2010, 10:57 AM   #4
jaguarxk120
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I wouldn't sell it, but if you do make sure know everything about the gun. Do a lot of looking and asking questions.

If the guy offered you $200 ya gotta know he know's what it's worth (more than $200). He will put it on gunbroker or stash it in his private collection.

Also unless you can find at least two seperate references (written) take what some expert says with a grain of salt.
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Old March 23, 2010, 11:03 AM   #5
PetahW
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24 gauge, or not, a J.P.Sauer & Sohn SxS shotgun is worth at least $700, and most likely more depending upon condition.

The Suhl (Germany) shotguns such as Simson, J.P Sauer & Sohn, Merkel and others are very, very similar.

Sometimes the only significant difference between guns made there is the model name/number.

They were made in the same town of Suhl, Germany -sometimes in the same factory.

For instance, great bargains can be had when you have a taste for Merkel but find an identical sxs with the Simson/Sauer name on it.
Same engraving, same receiver, same greener cross-bolt, the same wide file rib, the same stock shape, different name.

Some people say the Pre-war Merkels are the finest Merkels made..........

To put it simply....

When you buy a German gun from the town of Suhl, the name might be Fortuna, Sauer, Simson, JP Sauer & Sohn, JP Sauer & Sons, Gerbruder Merkel Suhl, Buhag, Geco, etc........... but you would swear it was Merkel for half the price.


.

Last edited by PetahW; March 24, 2010 at 10:24 AM.
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Old March 23, 2010, 11:16 AM   #6
oneounceload
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I'll disagree on the prices of Sauer - for some reason they aren't even close to Merkels. If you look on GunsInternational.com, under the Sauer section, there are prices ranging from $299 upwards of $7,000. Most of the lower priced ones are older and look worn, but still serviceable.

Being a single shot makes it sound like either a gun meant for young folks, or a garden/pest type gun kept around the farm.

If deemed usable by a competent smith, buy a few boxes of ammo and go have some fun
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Old March 23, 2010, 12:08 PM   #7
PetahW
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OOPS ! Sorry, I missed: "It is a single shot" in the OP. my bad........



.

Last edited by PetahW; March 24, 2010 at 10:25 AM.
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Old March 23, 2010, 06:48 PM   #8
Texson
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I would like to add that this shotgun is in sound firing condition. It is still just as tight as the day it was made. I am not afraid of firing it and shall as soon as I get some ammo. The blueing is thin and there are some scratches on the stock but none very deep.

You guys are super and I thank you.
Texson
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Old March 23, 2010, 11:28 PM   #9
olddrum1
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Texson, Thanks for the photos, I was going to suggest getting ahold of the folks over at Old Town Station. They auction tons of guns and might head you in the right direction and also might be a good venue to sell your gun. The problem is I have not pulled the site up in a while and when I did I found that they had been sold. I would not jump into selling the shotgun without finding a little more about it. It appears that you have sights on the gun. Is that correct? I would like to say that you have a gun worth $$$$ but I kind of think that you have a very nice garden gun. You might check with Graf and Sons on Ammo. They carry a pretty good inventory of stuff.
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Old March 24, 2010, 02:27 AM   #10
sauerfan
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Hi Texson,

What you have is a “Tell” model shotgun, made by J. P. Sauer & Sohn, Suhl. Or is the spelling really “Son”? In this case, it was made for the US market. The “Tell” was offered as a rifle or as a shotgun. There were two variations: the cheaper non detachable and the detachable variation, which was a little bit more expensive. You have the detachable variation: the lever on the side is for taking the barrel off. And please: do so.

Your Tell is a little bit…. Strange. The marking crown/B was used only (!) for rifles (B = Büchse = rifle). Also, on shoguns, the calibre wasn’t indicated in millimetres, but as gauge number, i.e. 12, 16, 20…. 24, 28 and so on (the gauge number within a circle).

So I wonder, if your Tell started as a rifle? Also, the diameter is strange. 12.4 mm = 0.488”. Bore diameter would correspond with a 40 gauge, but not with a 24 gauge (= 14.71 mm = 0.579”).

Anyway, markings on the underside of the barrel could help.

The Tell had a very long life. It was made since at least 1900 up to 1940, approximately and it was Sauer’s cheapest gun. Enclosed is an ad of a circa 1927 Geco catalog, showing the Tell shotgun. Note: the shotgun was available also with ejectors.

In a 1906 dated Sauer catalog it was offered i. a. as “Tellbüchse I” with smooth barrel chambered for shot shells in 10 mm or in 13mm. Maybe this could be an explanation for the 12.4 mm indication? I don’t know.

I will not participate in the value discussion (I’m German and not familiar with the US market). In any case, you can’t compare a Tell with a Merkel! You even can’t compare it with other Sauers, e. g. a Sauer model VIII shotgun or other Sauer quality guns.

Regards

Martin
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Old March 24, 2010, 08:36 AM   #11
sauerfan
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Correction:

Thought again about the 12.4 mm indication. Well, according to German Proof Law the calibre of the bore was measured and indicated, not the calibre (gauge) of the chamber. So, assuming the bore has (had) a diameter of 12.4 mm, it could be, the original shot calibre was in fact 13 mm, like stated in the 1906 Sauer catalog. I don’t know, what the diameter of the shell for this odd 13 mm shot shell was, but it could (!) correspond with a 24 gauge.

Also, I was wrong regarding the crown/B proof marking (that happens, when you rely just on memory). No, it’s not for rifles only, but is indicating a single proof. That’s all. Nevertheless, there should be present more proofs. At least, I’d expect crown/S (S = Schrot = shot).

BTW: if you’d tell us the serial number, I could make a statement when the gun was made.

Regards

Martin
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Old March 24, 2010, 05:55 PM   #12
Texson
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Sauer serial #

Martin
You and others have given me valuable information about this shot gun. I don't have plans to sell it unless it is worth alot of money. Both my mother & stepfather have passed away and there is no one in my family that is interested in firearms. I look at it as a unique weapon and it does have some sentimental value to me.

If you look back to my original post you will find I have added two pictures. I have more but they are of poor quality, but if more would help I can retake them. This shotgun does have sights and that is what made it a wonder to me as it has a smooth bore. As you can see by the pictures it also has an ejector.

I have looked very closely at the barrel and can find no other marks on it other than the serial number. The serial # is stamped on the barrel in two places plus it is on the trigger guard. If you cannot read the number in the picture it is 177047. I would appreciate if you could tell me when it was manufactured.
BTW the name stamped on the barrel is JP Sauer & Sohn Suhl.

Thanks
Texson
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Old March 24, 2010, 06:25 PM   #13
oneounceload
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Have you pulled off the forearm to see if there are more markings underneath? Many times, proof marks and codes are located there
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Old March 25, 2010, 09:16 AM   #14
sauerfan
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Hi Texson,

you gun was made between 1910 and 1912.

Regards

Martin
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Old March 25, 2010, 09:27 AM   #15
olddrum1
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Could this be chambered for a pistol or rifle cartridge in that it appears to have sights?

Last edited by olddrum1; March 25, 2010 at 11:25 PM.
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Old March 25, 2010, 10:39 AM   #16
PetahW
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For some additional help:

http://www.germanguns.com/member.html

.
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