The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 21, 2010, 01:09 PM   #1
timothy75
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,113
Rem 700 trigger job woe

I adjusted the trigger on my cdl to where I'm happy with it crisp-light-no creep, but today at the range while testing it by intentionally slaming the bolt forward on a loaded round it did go off once. I'd hate to start all over on it and wonder if I can just tighten up one of the screws a bit. Thanks
timothy75 is offline  
Old March 21, 2010, 11:45 PM   #2
hoghunting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 27, 2006
Posts: 1,358
I don't know how adjustable Remington's new trigger is, but it sounds as if there is too little sear engagement. You need to put just a little creep back in.
hoghunting is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 02:56 PM   #3
birdshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2008
Location: north platte nebraska
Posts: 306
test with fire round

i would use a fired round to see if you can get it to trip the sear. your slam fire could have been just that. was there a dent in the primer, like your other rounds?
birdshot is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 05:19 PM   #4
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,406
I had that happen messing with one of the old-style Savage triggers. Increasing the pull weight a little stopped it.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 05:30 PM   #5
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
....but it sounds as if there is too little sear engagement. You need to put just a little creep back in.
Some body please explain what the word "creep", means relative to trigger pull.
dahermit is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 06:04 PM   #6
Harry Bonar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2004
Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area.
Posts: 1,804
sear

Sir;
Too little sear engagement!
Harry B.
Harry Bonar is offline  
Old March 27, 2010, 08:53 AM   #7
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 5,015
http://www.quarterbore.com/library/a...00trigger.html
http://www.snipercountry.com/Article...onTriggers.asp
orionengnr is offline  
Old March 27, 2010, 11:36 AM   #8
motorep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 1998
Location: mid-coast Maine
Posts: 542
+1 on the Sniper Country link. I printed that when it first was posted, and it has done me well.
motorep is offline  
Old March 28, 2010, 07:46 PM   #9
Buzzard Bait
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 341
creep?

When I was a school kid a girl in my class said I was a creep is that what you mean?
BB
Buzzard Bait is offline  
Old March 31, 2010, 12:57 PM   #10
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit
Some body please explain what the word "creep", means relative to trigger pull.
It is small starting and stopping hesitations in the sliding movement of the firing mechanism engagement that is felt through the trigger finger. A good trigger will either break cleanly (crisp, with no movement in the engagement felt before the hammer falls) or it will slide smoothly and evenly and without hesitations (also called a rollover engagement for feeling like a small ball bearing were rolling smoothly between the engagement parts). It should not slip just part way, then hesitate while you to add trigger pressure before it starts moving again. Not even just slightly. That would be an example of creep.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old March 31, 2010, 08:08 PM   #11
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,837
The Remington 700 has what is sometimes called a "prop up" trigger. It is designed so that the cocking piece, under pressure from the mainspring (firing pin spring) continually tries to push the sear down out of its way. It can't because when the trigger is forward, it props up the sear, keeping it from moving downward. When the trigger is pulled, the support for the sear is removed, and the cocking piece can push the sear down and go forward to fire the gun.

This type of mechanism is a lot more sensitive than the "pull down" trigger of rifles like the Mauser or Model 1903 Springfield, where the trigger pulls the sear down out of the way of the cocking piece, a system resulting in a long, but very safe, pull.

IMHO, messing with the Remington trigger is a bad idea unless you know exactly how the mechanism works and exactly what you are doing. Just jumping in, even with those "how to" directions on web sites, can lead to a dangerous trigger condition and accidental discharge. Worse, if something serious happens, and it is discovered that someone worked on the trigger, that someone could have some problems! (And, it will be the "someone" who is hit with a multi-million dollar lawsuit, not the guys who post on the web sites; they just claim freedom of speech and deny they ever meant for anyone to actually do what they clearly advocate doing.)

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old March 31, 2010, 11:14 PM   #12
LongRifles, Inc.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Black Hills of S. Dakota
Posts: 195
I'll share how I set a single stage Remmy style trigger on a customer rifle:

Adjust until it's nice a crisp.

Rack the bolt like your a 16 year old on a double shot of Viagra.

If it DOES NOT slam fire move onto the next step.

IF it does, increase the level of sear engagement and repeat.

Next step:

Leather mallet in hand begin rapping on the back of the cocking indicator to see if the cocking piece rides over the trigger sear and slam fires.

If it does, go back to step one and increase sear engagement, if it continues then being digging deeper by measuring the amount of cocking piece/trigger sear overlap. (a bit of layout dye or black sharpie marker works well)

Never failed me in once in 12 years.

Good luck.

C
__________________
LongRifles, Inc.
"More than a business,
This is a lifestyle."

www.longriflesinc.com
LongRifles, Inc. is offline  
Old April 1, 2010, 08:22 PM   #13
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,837
I won't repeat my last paragraph, just suggest reading it again.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 2, 2010, 08:04 AM   #14
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
It is small starting and stopping hesitations in the sliding movement of the firing mechanism engagement that is felt through the trigger finger. A good trigger will either break cleanly (crisp, with no movement in the engagement felt before the hammer falls) or it will slide smoothly and evenly and without hesitations (also called a rollover engagement for feeling like a small ball bearing were rolling smoothly between the engagement parts). It should not slip just part way, then hesitate while you to add trigger pressure before it starts moving again. Not even just slightly. That would be an example of creep.
I would ask those who use the word "creep" to describe the amount of travel in a trigger before let off, if the above statement does not describe "creep", what is the word for what it describes?
dahermit is offline  
Old April 2, 2010, 12:59 PM   #15
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
Quote:
I won't repeat my last paragraph, just suggest reading it again.

Jim
Are you suggesting he take it to a gunsmith?

WildoramireadingyouwrongAlaska TM
Wildalaska is offline  
Old April 2, 2010, 01:46 PM   #16
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,406
Dahermit,

It describes creep regardless of the engagement length. If you feel the engagement moving unevenly, you have creep. With a crisp trigger you shouldn't feel the engagement move at all before the sudden movement that lets the hammer go. With a rollover trigger you will feel the engagement move, but it will be totally even and smooth and will go right through the hammer drop and won't have any hesitations along the way. Obviously, the first stage of a two-stage trigger doesn't count since the take up of the first stage doesn't move the engagement.

When a person creeps around a location, their movement is starting, stopping to listen or to check for observers, starting again, stopping again, etcetera. It's just not not a smooth motion. Same applies to a trigger. That's where the term comes from.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old April 2, 2010, 05:35 PM   #17
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Dahermit,

It describes creep regardless of the engagement length. If you feel the engagement moving unevenly, you have creep. With a crisp trigger you shouldn't feel the engagement move at all before the sudden movement that lets the hammer go. With a rollover trigger you will feel the engagement move, but it will be totally even and smooth and will go right through the hammer drop and won't have any hesitations along the way. Obviously, the first stage of a two-stage trigger doesn't count since the take up of the first stage doesn't move the engagement.

When a person creeps around a location, their movement is starting, stopping to listen or to check for observers, starting again, stopping again, etcetera. It's just not not a smooth motion. Same applies to a trigger. That's where the term comes from.
I agree with you. The purpose of my posts was to get someone to post this definition or creep as opposed to those saying creep was travel. I wanted someone else to take issue with the definition because I all too frequently disagree with questionable common definitions as they pertain to firearms.
dahermit is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10354 seconds with 7 queries