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View Poll Results: Which shape do you think is the most appropriate for today's tactical threats?
Weightlifter 10 12.20%
Sprinter 14 17.07%
Decathlete 44 53.66%
Long Distance runner 14 17.07%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 18, 2010, 06:34 PM   #26
old bear
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Wildalaska

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Old March 18, 2010, 06:37 PM   #27
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Just take Krav Maga for a few years while taking a few shooting/law classes like LFI-1 and you will be ok.

And take up IDPA or such to keep your gunhand in while working out.

The gun is not the total answer, but H2H is not either.

Quote:
Old fat guys with experience and brains
True but many of them can't get it up.
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Old March 18, 2010, 06:42 PM   #28
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As for fitness, it needs to be a mix of strength and conditioning.

Lifting weights/odd objects/bodyweight exercises.
Running distance/running sprints/walking/swimming.

Pretty simple. Keep it mixed up and have fun with it.
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Old March 18, 2010, 10:21 PM   #29
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I have seen the new threats evolve into similar issues for all involved, for example:

the police officer- The active shooter or a run in with armed gang members in an urban environment.

the civilian- A group of armed robbers or terrorists.

the soldier- Urban environments

In each situation, you are dealing with combatants who may be only 25 feet or less away from you. You might have to engage them at close range and if you miss or your shots are not effective then you might have to go hand-to-hand. You will have to be agile enough to manuever from covered position to covered position quickly or to rapidly change direction.
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Old March 18, 2010, 10:35 PM   #30
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Old March 18, 2010, 10:51 PM   #31
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Gentlemen, I'd like to draw your attention back to TFL's forum rules for a moment. This one, in particular:
Quote:
2) Language that would be inappropriate in the polite company of strangers is quite unwelcome here.
No, nobody cussed. But sometimes it's possible to forget that TFL is a mixed audience of "polite strangers." Although your own daughter might not read here, it is a sure bet that someone's 16-year-old daughter probably is. Although your own grandmother might be deceased, it's quite possible that someone's grandmother is reading these words right now.

This means that jokes and comments which might be completely acceptable in a group of guys standing face to face, really have no place here.

Although any one of these little jokes is relatively minor, the cumulative effect on the board culture can become huge.

So next time, please think twice, post once. If you wouldn't say it in front of someone else's young daughter, someone's wife, someone's grandmother -- someone whom you don't know well -- don't say it here.

In short: please remember that TFL is NOT the men's locker room.

Thanks.

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Old March 19, 2010, 08:25 AM   #32
Ricky
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Conditioning for slf defense

The best conditioning exercise for self defense is to study martial arts. You'll get great cardio conditioning, develop lean muscle tone, increase endurance and actually learn to fight.
I know that a lot of guys think that they just "know" how to fight, some guys that don't have formal training can be pretty tough but there is nothing like learning proper technique and practicing till you do it well without thinking about it. I studied Karate but I suggest you go to a lot of different classes. Karate, Jue-jitsu, boxing etc. and see what you like. Not all classes or teachers are created equal so sit in on as many classes as you can before you settle on one.
If you don't want to study martial arts and just want to be in shape you really should lift weights. It is the most efficient way to build strength. If you don't want to be bulky then lift lighter weights and do more reps. (3 sets of 20 reps instead 10 reps) Mix it up though, don't do the same exercises all the time. Jog, ride a bike, hike a mountain for cardio.
Physical fitness has to become part of your lifestyle. You need to make it a priority and stick with it. You can change your workout but don't be a couch potato.
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Old March 19, 2010, 08:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
It's all good, but lots of gym rats think they're bad asses with all their toning and abs. A guy who has been boxing in the ring for 5 or 6 years or fighting professionally is often in much better position to both avoid and give out punishment than a guy who looks great but who has never actually been in a fight. Two or three rounds in a ring will give you some idea what sort of 'tactical conditioning' you have going...

IMHO.

YMMV.
Amen.

Beach muscles don't make any difference in a fight. There may be a correlation of sorts with fitness, appearance, and performance, but knowing what you're doing (and equally importantly BEING ABLE TO CARRY OUT YOUR INTENTIONS), is by far the most important factor. Whatever that is is probably more suitable to the individual, but if I had to pick from the list, I'd probably go with an endurance athlete.
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Old March 19, 2010, 10:06 AM   #34
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Someone once asked the question about who would do better in a fight and one answer was a boxer. You might not think so, given how a boxer has to fight according to rules and so on. But the logic was that a boxer is used to pain. And that just reminds me of a boy who has been physically punished a little too hard and a little too often. It won't bother him any more.
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Old March 19, 2010, 11:23 AM   #35
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@Balog
You can call it "BS", if you wish. I didn't come here to make enemies, but to be among like-minded people.

My fitness regimen consists of almost daily workouts, with several sprints. I've been doing this for 44 years.

At my age, I could be in a wheelchair in five years. But don't bet on it. My job requires me to sometimes chase down people forty years junior to me. I don't want to go to the desk, so I train like I'm still 20.

No video is forthcoming. I find no reason to prove myself to anyone. I know who I am, and am proud of it.
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Old March 19, 2010, 11:29 AM   #36
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Sprinters can run long distance and have stamina. Many distance runners can also spring. Both generally do a fair amount of weight training these days.

The bottom line - be in the best all around shape you possibly can. Speed, strength and endurance is all important in defending yourself.....not to mention brains and experience.

There's a reason why the Army doesn't recruit old fat guys. And, there's a reason why special forces don't take low-scoring aptitude recruits.
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Old March 19, 2010, 11:45 AM   #37
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+ 1 for Crossfit ATP

Crossfit is the rage at my station now. I do it as well. It's a mix of sprints, olympic weighlifting (snatch, etc..), and other moves using your bodyweight. It's all done for time with practicioners doing multiple consecutive sets with no rest. To me, this exercise regimen most closely simulates what you feel in an all out mata me!" or fight. It's great for stability, agility, and practical strength.
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Old March 19, 2010, 04:45 PM   #38
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Quote:
Someone once asked the question about who would do better in a fight and one answer was a boxer. You might not think so, given how a boxer has to fight according to rules and so on. But the logic was that a boxer is used to pain.
I agree. I'd also add that someone who has sparred a fair amount is less likely to close their eyes in a fight.
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Old March 19, 2010, 05:01 PM   #39
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People who make claims that are fairly obviously untrue and then get uppity when called on it amuse me greatly.
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Old March 19, 2010, 05:07 PM   #40
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Balog said:
Quote:
People who make claims that are fairly obviously untrue and then get uppity when called on it amuse me greatly.
Glad I could make your day, son ...
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Old March 19, 2010, 05:17 PM   #41
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Old fat guys....

slow, big targets... who think they know so much they don't have to wear body armor? yeah... thats the winner.

and boxing...sure... if you're going against someone who's never fought before. But boxers are severely handicapped against MMA fighters. Boxers wear thick gloves, they don't train for ground-n-pound, they dance around and use their arms only, not utilizing legs, elbows, locks and bars.... etc.
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Old March 19, 2010, 07:57 PM   #42
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Said it before....

....and I'll say it again....Target Focus Training.

I've just finished working my way through their 17-disc video series, and this is some deadly stuff. Shape doesn't much matter--there are Wild Alaska types all over these classes, giving what-for (and taking it back!) in the sessions. Works for me. I'll be taking their 2-day class in June in Vegas with My-Brother-the-Cop and reporting back here. You can subscribe and learn it all on-line, as well.

More info here: targetfocustraining.com

For getting in shape, I've just started this:

tacfit.com

and it kicks the proverbial booty. Seriously. Mostly body-weight exercises, and some other stuff.

Cheers!

Daniel
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Old March 19, 2010, 08:51 PM   #43
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also...

Get fit exercise for those who don't want to spend all day at the gym:

alsearsmd.com/pace

pretty simple--it boils down to 'exercise as hard as you can until you're gasping and sweating, heart pounding--then stop! Rest until you're almost back to normal--do it again! 6 times.

Builds muscle, endurance, strength.

Makes it easier to hold that gun on target for longer!
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Old March 19, 2010, 08:53 PM   #44
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Learning from a DVD?

I'm not trying to offend you but can you really learn from a video? or from a 2 day course for that matter.
In my days of Karate training we worked out 3 days a week for 90 minutes. We practiced the moves over and over until they became muscle memory. We sparred to practice speed, timing and technique. It took most people the better part of 2 years to become somewhat proficient, an athletic gifted person at least a year. It seems to me that if you were to take a 2 day course, 3 months later the lessons are lost.
OK I watched the promo video, and I'll stand by my statement. You can't just be shown how to fight, you have to practice. Tim Larkin is selling a product and the packaging is slick but I'm far from convinced.

Last edited by Ricky; March 19, 2010 at 09:05 PM.
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Old March 21, 2010, 05:53 PM   #45
semi_problomatic
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vids are good...

not sure how this turned into a training debate, but... vids can't teach you anything. you can watch all the tai-bo you want and its not going to help you do anything. Fighting is 70% mental, 20% strength and 10% technique. In reality the best way to learn how to fight is TO FIGHT. just like you can't learn how to shoot by watching videos, it falls short everywhere else, more so in fighting.
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Old March 21, 2010, 08:23 PM   #46
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I would go with a medium build based on stamina and speed under stress. I don't say this based on what nature herself has given us but on what we can do to our own bodies. Finding a balance with ourselves and training.
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Old March 22, 2010, 09:18 AM   #47
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Q; What type of physical fitness is appropriate for today's tactical threats?
A; Whatever helps you line up the sights better.
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Old March 22, 2010, 05:48 PM   #48
JohnH1963
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Quite honestly, I would go with the weightlifter profile. If I was entering a close quarters, then I would want as much muscle on me as possible in order to deal with the threat.

I know that speed is important in a fight, but I have found that all out strength is what counts. One good blow can put someone out better then three or four weaker blows...
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Old March 22, 2010, 06:28 PM   #49
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whats the use of strength with no endurace? It takes 12lbs of pressure (less on other weapons) to pull the trigger of a M4/M16. It takes a lot of endurance to run, jump, duck, dive, crawl, run, sprint, kick, climb...etc etc and then still be able to hold your rifle or pistol stead enough to make your shots count. Like with the biathalons in the olympics, cross country skiing and shooting...how many of them looked like old arnold?
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Old March 22, 2010, 07:19 PM   #50
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What 'tactical threat'?

An armed/unarmed attacker? You need excellent cardio endurance because your heart and adreneline will race and exhaust you quickly. So you need a variety of cardio including long distance running, sprinting, hiking under a moderate load, swimming, and some form of grappling experience (judo, wrestling, etc.), and others mentioned cross fit - which is a great workout to build overall body strength.

You need to build good/great core strength and good leg strength and fair arm strength at minimum.

Also, I did IDPA recently and that re-enforces the need to train your brain and shooting/decision making under stress. This is very important.
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