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Old March 14, 2010, 01:46 AM   #1
firespectrum
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Is there a discreet way to ask...

I am looking for an apartment in the Tallahassee, Fl area because I'm going to be going to FSU. I found a place and I was ready to sign a lease when I noticed that it specifically prohibits firearms multiple times in the lease. I didn't sign because I "need more time to think about it".

Now I know it may not be legally right, but if it comes down to it I believe my right to bear arms is a Natural Right that comes from God and I am willing to defy the lease and accept responsibility for the consequences if I get caught, but I would much rather bring my rent money to someone more reasonable.

Is there a way to ask if guns are prohibited without letting them know I have guns?

P.S. If you know of a gun-friendly apartment complex in Tally could you PM me?
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Old March 14, 2010, 02:01 AM   #2
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When I lived in an apartment, I told the manager that I hunted as a kid and was thinking about getting back into it, so I wanted to know if there were going to be any issues with me having a rifle in the future.
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Old March 14, 2010, 02:07 AM   #3
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That's the craziest thing I've ever heard!

What are the local laws concerning firearms? I thought Florida was a gun friendly state! Check with your local law enforcement if you have any concerns.
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Old March 14, 2010, 02:26 AM   #4
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Wow I am sorry to hear that. I would not be moving anywhere that prohibits my right to bear arms. I live in California where the gun laws are just about the worse and that sounds rediculouse to me.
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Old March 14, 2010, 03:27 AM   #5
maestro pistolero
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Find another apartment and tell them why. It's not worth sacrificing your integrity. Knowingly violating the terms of a legal contract isn't exactly what I call integrity.
Or tell them you want the apartment, but they will have to wave the ridiculous firearms clause, because well, you're an adult and this is America.
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Old March 14, 2010, 05:41 AM   #6
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Take your money elsewhere. If the apartment owner won't respect your constitutional rights, you have no business doing business with him/her. Also, let them know exactly why you're not going to accept the terms of the rental agreement.
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Old March 14, 2010, 07:58 AM   #7
firespectrum
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Good idea interrogator!

Bluehighways and maestro, I'm inclined to agree with you. Ideally I'd tell any landlord that they can't have my business if that's how they do business, but if it turns out to be a standard clause in every complex that's near campus then I've just eliminated myself from all the suitable places. A lot of places are filled up already. If I tell them I'm a gunowner and I end up having to come crawling back I might be SOL or end up falling under extra scrutiny after I move in. What kind of proof does a landlord need to search your room? Or rather, can the landlord call the cops if he suspects I have a gun and get them to search my room?
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Old March 14, 2010, 08:39 AM   #8
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In most rental agreements, a landlord can enter with no reason as long as they give you so much notice. They own the property, after all. IIRC, in TX, they had to give me 24 or 48 hours notice to enter my apartment.
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Old March 14, 2010, 09:40 AM   #9
Dustin0
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I think I see your problem
Quote:
near campus
If you can afford it move out away from campus in to the reset of the community and you will find less problems renting with guns in your home.
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Old March 14, 2010, 09:50 AM   #10
rjrivero
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I am not a lawyer, but I believe this to be a constitutional rights issue. An apartment is a dwelling. They can not ban the resident based on his desire to keep and carry a gun.

Discuss this with a lawyer. Hotels can't ban guns either, as far as I know.
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Old March 14, 2010, 10:25 AM   #11
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I have to agree with the above post, especially in the State of Florida where they respect and uphold the Second Amendment, the landlord has no right to impinge upon the law of the land. I would have to think it is a "CYA" thing for the landlord in case there was a shooting in the building involving your gun. He can say the lease specifically prohibited you from having a gun and you violated his mandate, thereby absolving him of all liability.

I say, in the case of concealed carry, go ahead a move in and take your gun with you. Just make sure it is not flaunted nor shown to anyone and see that it is properly secured and locked away in some sort of safe for those days you leave it in the apartment. Some landlords can be very prying, even when they have no right to.
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Old March 14, 2010, 12:20 PM   #12
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I brought this very thing up with my last landlord. When I was filling out the agreement, I asked if that was a standard clause or something she had put on the form. She asked if I had a firearm and I told her I did and that parting with it would be an issue. She then said it was something that she usually does not enforce but keeps available as a tool to justify ousting non-payers, deadbeats, people with multiple complaints for police calls (domestic issues), etc. She asked "You're not one of those who waves it around and displays it a lot are you?" That's when I told her I am a LEO. She was OK with that, but I still have reservations about a landlords ability to exercise their own viewpoints when it comes to 2A. Seems to me they can be as pro or anti as they want and stand behind the signed lease agreement even if there is no legally posted 30.06 Sign (Tx no gun zone sign) after all, they can come up with just about any reason to deny your lease or continued lease.
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Old March 14, 2010, 12:26 PM   #13
Glenn Dee
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OK... I also live in an apartment in Florida. Any business owner (including a landlord) may declare his business a gun free zone. However I wouldnt make a point of telling the rental agency, or the property manager that I own firearms,or have any intent to do so. As someone else stated the property manager has keys to your apartment. I wouldnt want anyone who has keys to know about my firearms. If the lease forbids firearms, and the apartment isnt within a campus... why say anything? As long as your not violating any laws. How would they know?... If you had to use the gun in your own defense? What are they going to do?... Ask you to move?
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Old March 14, 2010, 12:41 PM   #14
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Your constitutional rights mean nothing towards a private landlord unless they are specifically established by law to do so (why we needed the civil rights legislation in the 60s to prohibit race etc based renting). Even if the SCOTUS incorporates the 2nd against states and municipalities it still doesn't do anything against a private landlord.
As for "what can he do", what are you going to do if he calls hazmat and has your guns removed as "immediate danger"? You might win damages in court, if you have the money to fight, but it's you the college student renter against the landlord apartment owner with an insurance company footing the legal bills.
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Old March 14, 2010, 02:59 PM   #15
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrivero
I am not a lawyer, but I believe this to be a constitutional rights issue. An apartment is a dwelling. They can not ban the resident based on his desire to keep and carry a gun...
I am a lawyer.

[1] This is not an issue of constitutional rights. The Constitution doesn't regulate private conduct.

[2] In general, unless there is a state statute or local ordinance prohibiting it, a landlord may include a "no guns" clause in a residential lease and enforce it.
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Old March 14, 2010, 07:41 PM   #16
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I wonder, if everyone knows it's a gun free complex, what is the crime rate in or near it?
I would look elswhere just on the principle of it!
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Old March 14, 2010, 09:52 PM   #17
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Ask for a Waiver to the gun clause. If they agree be sure to get it in writing before you move in!
If you get caught with a gun on their property they have the legal right to take action agaist you, usually not much more than kicking you out without refunding your deposit -- You broke the lease, and they can keep the deposit for "legal fees".

Any contract is negotiable to a point.
Ask if you and the lease holder can sign a waiver in agreement to null that/those particular gun clauses. Many times they'll do just that.
Don't accept a word of mouth agreement, it'll never hold up if somebody knows that you have a gun and files any type of complaint. Their written complaint will always take precident over your verbal agreement.

Ask for a waiver, if they say no - Walk away.
Good luck
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Old March 14, 2010, 10:13 PM   #18
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Don't ask don't tell
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Old March 14, 2010, 11:08 PM   #19
firespectrum
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fiddletown, If I were to draw my weapon in a justifiable defensive situation would the landlord just be able to kick me out for breaching the lease agreement as some have suggested, or could there be criminal charges for possesing the firearm in the apartment? Is it the same kind of "gun free zone" as a school or govn't building just because the landlord says it is?
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Old March 14, 2010, 11:31 PM   #20
surveyor
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answers should be found here..http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/...EChapter%20790

this is florida statues, and while it won't cover the contract for lease, it will cover all the other questions..
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Old March 14, 2010, 11:36 PM   #21
firespectrum
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Quote:
I wonder, if everyone knows it's a gun free complex, what is the crime rate in or near it?
I don't know the crime rate exactly, but I personally know 3 FSU students that have been robbed at gunpoint within 5 miles or so of campus in the last year. The BGs know that campus is a "gun free zone" so they take advantage of the stream of defenseless victims it provides.
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Old March 14, 2010, 11:50 PM   #22
surveyor
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no clue on that one..

FSU police reports maybe, as they are public record?

Last edited by surveyor; March 15, 2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Old March 15, 2010, 12:33 AM   #23
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firespectrum
....If I were to draw my weapon in a justifiable defensive situation would the landlord just be able to kick me out for breaching the lease agreement as some have suggested, or could there be criminal charges for possesing the firearm in the apartment?...
You really need to consult a Florida lawyer to get into that level of detail. Based on general legal principles, I'd tend to think it would only be a breach of the lease for which you could be evicted, and perhaps liable for some civil damages. But I don't pretend to know the details of Florida law.
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Old March 15, 2010, 01:00 AM   #24
firespectrum
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^^^

Thanks
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Old March 15, 2010, 05:42 AM   #25
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It's their property, and you're signing an agreement. You're free to agree to terms, or part ways.

However, in my experience, even here in the very anti-rights Crook County, IL, the leases tend to forbid the illegal use of firearms in gang activity / drug dealing / etc.

So check the fine print--it may be a non-issue.

Last edited by BobbyT; March 17, 2010 at 06:47 PM.
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