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Old March 9, 2010, 08:09 PM   #1
t45
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+P 45acp 1911 What upgrades?

Guys, I have a Charles Daly 1911 Officer Model and would like to use +P for CCW only. Do I need to upgrade the springs to use +P? I do not plan on shooting +P allot except to sight in at the range and check for function.
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Old March 10, 2010, 07:49 AM   #2
dcody40
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My knickles worth only

I'd simply put a recoil bushing on, purchase a set from brownells, they last longer than you think depending on how often your shooting, and have at it, prove the ammo you have selected and if your happy then your happy, as you know there is NO single formula for every gun/ammo/holster/user out there, you just test your idea out and see if it performs as required. Be safe and hope you never have to use your firearm for anything but pleasure at your favorite range.

Duane Usn/Ret.

I should have said Recoil buffer, sold in sets of 5 or 6 depending on source.
and used to be less than a dollar each !..I still have a bunch in my parts bin from years ago.

Last edited by dcody40; March 10, 2010 at 07:53 AM. Reason: adding info left out in 1st
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Old March 10, 2010, 08:41 AM   #3
drail
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No offense to the OP but with a .45 ACP there really is no need to go +P. (especially in an Officer's ACP, it's already pushing the envelope as it is.) It's quite capable in the standard loadings. +P loads are mostly marketing crap. If you feel you need more "oomph" look into a 10mm gun. (which is also pushing the envelope) Going above factory pressures and loadings will just accelerate wear and tear on a gun. Shok buffs will help.
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Old March 10, 2010, 08:52 AM   #4
MosinM38
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I dunno about that. No HUGE advantage.

But my Gold Dot 200 +P's are going 40FPS faster than 185 Gold Dots.

Supposedly that is. I don't know, I also don't notice a huge recoil increase either. I got 4 boxes of it cheaply, it's good ammo, so I use it.

That said, back on topic: Personally I go with some recomendations I got when I went to +P in my 1911. Get a 18.5LB Wolf spring if you're shooting +P ammo.
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Old March 10, 2010, 09:55 AM   #5
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The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.

Sell your Charles Daly, and simply buy a more modern .45 like a SIG 220. It will work with +P ammo just fine.

The best recoil reduction buffer system is the one made by DPM systems. However, they only support modern handguns, and not the old fashioned 1911.

They make models of their products for all of the following .45 ACP handguns:

Glock, SIG Sauer, Springfield XD series, and Smith & Wesson M&P 45

See:

http://www.dpmsystems.com/en/products/

.
.
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Old March 10, 2010, 10:25 AM   #6
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What are they putting in the water down there in Oregon, Lance?
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Old March 10, 2010, 12:42 PM   #7
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Your gun's manual should tell you. The manual for my Colt says +P is fine for it in the stock configuration but , it will accelerate wear. I don't think a quality 1911 will have any problem with +P regardless of the designs age.
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Old March 10, 2010, 02:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
They make models of their products for all of the following .45 ACP handguns
Emphasis by AZAK
And just exactly what does that "ACP" stand for...and where did it come from?

My "old fashioned 1911"s seem to continue on just fine. I personally don't run +p in my .45s, don't see the need; I run 10mm auto through my Colt Delta Elite if I want something a might warmer.

If you want to try the +p in yours, keep an eye on your accuracy and follow up; especially in a smaller 1911. Hitting your intended target is always a good goal!
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Old March 10, 2010, 05:06 PM   #9
dcody40
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Automatic Colt Pistol

Cartriges named for the various colt pistols. you can see it in several calbers,

45 ACP
380 ACP
32ACP
are the 3 that came to mind in a fast moment, there is probably a few others, out there, Ammo does have allot of names, and some of our historians
out there can probably write books about the history of cartriges and the many names and reasons for those names.

I'm still learning new stuff every day and hope to keep on learning for along time.

Enjoy !

Duane USN/Ret
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Old March 10, 2010, 05:48 PM   #10
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To the OP -- try shooting the +P with present springs and see how they work. As long as they are reliable, I wouldn't worry about it since you're not going to shoot a lot of this ammo.

Quote:
I'd simply put a recoil bushing on, purchase a set from brownells, they last longer than you think depending on how often your shooting, and have at it, prove the ammo you have selected and if your happy then your happy,
I think you are referring to shock buffers. Some use them on the range. However, NOBODY recommends them in a carry weapon in the event they decide to disintegrate and lock up the pistol. Unlikely, but why take that chance?

Quote:
The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.
Echoing AZAK -- did you ever hear of 10mm being fired through the 1911 platform? Same design but just with different springs. The 10mm runs at pressures a LOT higher than .45 acp +P. Heck, 9mm and .38 Super run at higher pressures and they present no problem for the 1911 platform.

I also don't think +P ammo is necessary out of a five inch barrel. When you go below Commander size (4.25 inch barrel), then +P ammo begins to make sense. However, opinions vary.
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Old March 10, 2010, 06:13 PM   #11
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The OACP already has a shorter slide stroke than a 5" 1911, and some recommend against taking another 1/10"-1/8" of it with a buffer.
You might check out the ISMI recoil system for the OACP. It utilizes a flat wire spring that provides more in-battery pressure on the slide than conventional single and dual-spring set-ups. You might also consider an EGW firing pin stop with a small radius on the heel. This reduces the mechanical advantage of the slide over the hammer/mainspring in recoil, and can delay and slow unlocking of the slide. I have them in all of my 1911s (the original M1911 spec called for a much smaller radius on the firing pin stop than what we see today; the army changed it to make the slide easier to rack. What you are trying to do, to counter the added pressure of +P, is make the slide harder to rack), and you may be able to stick with the stock recoil spring(s) if you go with the EGW firing pin stop, because more of the recoil energy is transmitted to the mainspring, rather than being transmitted to the slide and absorbed by the shooter when the slide hits the frame in recoil.
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Old March 10, 2010, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.
No offense intended, but that is the silliest thing I have read on TFL in a long time.
Modern 1911s do just fine with +p loads. With minimal mods, and I mean springs only, a modern 1911 will work just fine with .45 Super loads, which are a good bit stouter. Good article here on $8 .45 Super:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm
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Old March 10, 2010, 08:05 PM   #13
tjhands
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In .45ACP there's no real reason to go to a +P round. Effectively the only thing you'll get is slower target reacquisition between shots.
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Old March 10, 2010, 08:35 PM   #14
michael t
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Quote:
The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.
What a crock.

I carry and shoot 185 gr and 200 gr Corbon +P in my Compacts, Officer and Defender size never been a problem . Recoil also not a problem
In Commander Ive started using the 200gr same with my Government No change needed It might wear you pistol out a couple days sooner if you shoot a lot and maybe need to change spring a little more often.
I just figure at SD range a slightly lighter and hotter 45 might be a little more damaging to the target .
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Old March 19, 2010, 10:13 PM   #15
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"The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.

Sell your Charles Daly, and simply buy a more modern .45 like a SIG 220. It will work with +P ammo just fine.

The best recoil reduction buffer system is the one made by DPM systems. However, they only support modern handguns, and not the old fashioned 1911."

That's funny because that is exactly what a gun store employee told me about a year ago. Lance, do you work in a gun store?
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Old March 20, 2010, 03:40 PM   #16
DBAR
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+P is fine out of almost any modern handgun. In moderation, you should be fine without making any changes.



Quote:
The 1911 is too old of a handgun design to be able to handle +P ammo pressures. +P ammo did not exist when it was invented.

Sell your Charles Daly, and simply buy a more modern .45 like a SIG 220. It will work with +P ammo just fine.

The best recoil reduction buffer system is the one made by DPM systems. However, they only support modern handguns, and not the old fashioned 1911.
That's real funny Lance, you’re kidding right? You were being sarcastic, right?

DBAR
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Old March 20, 2010, 04:23 PM   #17
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+ 1 for 18.5lb recoil spring.
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Old March 20, 2010, 05:24 PM   #18
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If you can't stop someone up close (defense range )with normal pressure 230 hp 45 ammo, than you need a rifle or help from above .
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Old March 20, 2010, 08:14 PM   #19
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I had an Armscor officer model that I loaded with 200gr Gold Dot +p ammo to make up for the fps lost by the 3.5inch barrel. It is almost the exact same pistol as yours and mine shot great with no mods. Forget that the 1911 is too old crap! It is still one of the most popular defense pistols sold and has been for 100 years.
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Old March 24, 2010, 05:43 PM   #20
dcody40
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Velly Velly Funny but on a serious note for training reallity !

Ok Guys, Gals ?.. I don't know anybody who would want to or be able to catch a .45 slug coming out of any length barrel, if a real BG is coming at you or your loved ones, what ever you hit them with assuming you can hit them WILL do the job pretty much as advertised, you get good hits to any part of the BG body and your going to change their mood real quick about
charging anyone with bad intentions, Now I'm not talking about the high as a kite pumped up crack fanatic from the TV world. I'm talking your typical street perp. I see these discussions going on all the time about ammo selections, hollow points, frangibles, look, any bullet that hits the BG will change the history of that moment, there is NO magic formula of This bullet used 100% of the time will 100 % of the time, do a total stop of 100 % of the BG's in the world. Real world now ! use what you got and use it as trained, center of mass central nervous system hits (K5) zone ?...that's what I was taught as a Leo. Never tangled with a pumped up crack head, so never had to test that theory out thankfully. Main point is, Any gun in your good guy trained hands, with good intentions is better than nothing !...ok..
I know personally of good legal saves with a .22 revolver, the perp got hurt and ran away, good stop !. I think the gun/ammo stats say somewhere that the most documented bullet used in the highest number of situations is the lowly .38 special. this is not Ripley's believe it or not ! it's a fact.
And yes I know these are just discussions and individual opinions, that's cool, just do good training, and do what you think is best for your situation. And for real now, just hope you never have to shoot someone. Enough !.

Last edited by dcody40; March 24, 2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: spelling !
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Old March 25, 2010, 07:37 AM   #21
Giorgio
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Just my opinion. 9mm Luger Parabellum and legendary .45 ACP are the two best semiautomatic military cartridges ever created. Why change?
What can give a + p more than a normal and largely effective ACP battle-tested over the years?
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