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Old March 7, 2010, 09:19 PM   #1
neon
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HD Rifle or Shotgun?

For the best in home defense..

Do you choose 12 gauge with 00 buck or black rifle .223 .308 your choice
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Old March 7, 2010, 11:13 PM   #2
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12 gauge, 00BK

For the best in HD, there is no other option.
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Old March 7, 2010, 11:33 PM   #3
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Well, I don't have a .223 (Yet) but having considered it, my 10/22 would almost be better than my shotgun at night due to the red dot scope and ability to use my flashlight better. But in my house I would rather use the shotgun due to a long hallway and the long wide display of the main area. My shotgun would have better penetration through cover they may take.

I also have my sword at my bed, my belt for shotgun shells has a spike bayonet I put a handle on, and 24 rounds of buckshot and slugs. Not counting the six I already have on the gun.

I would prefer a handgun but I don't have one at the moment.
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Old March 8, 2010, 01:46 AM   #4
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I used to be strictly a fan of the Guage for HD, and they still have their place IMO, but I have also become a fan of the AR platform in 5.56/.223 for home defense.

The Guage delivers and awesome amount of power and is reknown for it's ability to stop a threat at what is commonly thought of as handgun distances. With that power comes slower second shot capability, limited ammunition capacity and unwieldiness in a non-static position. As a last option, "You ain't going no further in your attempt to harm me and mine;" give me the Guage.

For pool usage, and wieldiness give me the M4/AR platform in 5.56/.223. With a retractible stock I can use the bookcase as cover far better with the M4 that I can the Guage. The M4 can, with training, be fired from awkward positions that render the Guage a one shot weapon. Also, in dire need the M4 can be fired one handed if needed. I don't know about you, but I'm not big and strong enough to do that with the Guage. Also, ammunition capacity and reloads are a non-issue with the M4. It is also a weapon that my wife can and will fire. I can't say the same about even a 20 Guage.

I know all of this sounds like I've turned against the shotgun, but I haven't. It's just that I've come to appreciate both platforms, and use both for home defense. The Guage is the last weapon to defend the Master Bedroom, as at that point the threat needs to be stopped in no uncertain terms and I feel the Guage has the ability to do that better than any other platform at my disposal. I am willing to use the rifle for home searches and clearing, given it's wieldiness, and bring the other family members to the protection of the "safe room" for final protection provided by the Guage.

They both, along with the handgun, have their place in home protection. The goa; is to be equally versed in all three and pick the right tool for the job. If I don't know what made that "bump in the night" I will opt for a handgun. If I know the "bump in the night" was made by a verified threat to me and mine I will use the rifle to secure the safety of others in the household and bring them under the protection of the Guage.

Between the two platforms, if I could only have one, I'd opt for the Guage with a defensive handgun.

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Old March 8, 2010, 02:27 AM   #5
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Not every body can shoot a 12 ga......

In working w/ recruits and trainees of varied backgrounds, stature and sex, I've seen that not every body can shoot the 12 ga pump well. It is down right abusive (recoil wise) to some folks. A carbine of some persuasion is called for in these situations. (M1 car, Mini, AR, even a pistol caliber lever).

If the HD longun will have smaller users, its something to consider.
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Old March 8, 2010, 06:36 AM   #6
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Shotgun with a handgun as a back up. I'm concerned about shooting through walls and hitting others in the house.
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Old March 8, 2010, 07:30 AM   #7
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My vote is always for a rifle. Much more versatile and very effective at short as well as extended ranges.
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Old March 8, 2010, 07:47 AM   #8
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Neither.
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Old March 8, 2010, 08:12 AM   #9
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In Order of Preference....

(1) 12 ga. pump
(2) 20 ga pump
(3) 12 ga DB or O/U
(4) 20 ga DB or O/U

DEFEND with a shotgun...ASSAULT with a rifle.
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Old March 8, 2010, 08:14 AM   #10
eme
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I like the SG for home defense. I have 20 and 12 gauges in various places with in the house. If I need a rifle I can alwys go to the rifle slug which would surfice for a distance type (20-30 yards ) confertation. I guess every one has a different opion, you should go thru what you think would be your worse case and then go from there. Good luck in your quest
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Old March 8, 2010, 08:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Well, I don't have a .223 (Yet) but having considered it, my 10/22 would almost be better than my shotgun at night due to the red dot scope and ability to use my flashlight better. But in my house I would rather use the shotgun due to a long hallway and the long wide display of the main area. My shotgun would have better penetration through cover they may take.

I also have my sword at my bed, my belt for shotgun shells has a spike bayonet I put a handle on, and 24 rounds of buckshot and slugs. Not counting the six I already have on the gun.

I would prefer a handgun but I don't have one at the moment.
Do you live in Compton?
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Old March 8, 2010, 09:00 AM   #12
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+1 Bamaranger

A M4 with light and iron sights (flipped to the large aperture) 62gr Frangibles. I would recommend LIMITED (hearing Safety) live fire practice inside a building. The blast from a 223 inside a closed room is a bit startling the first time. The first time should not be when the SHTF. I'm advocating doing this on a continual basis. I liken it to taking CPR and never practicing on a mannequin.
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Old March 8, 2010, 10:27 AM   #13
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Consider the layout of your home and the possible scenarios that may unfold.

For break ins that happen to occur when you happen to be in or very near the room in which the gun is kept, either a carbine or a short shotgun might be OK.

However, should you be somewhere else at a time, and should a violent intruder suddenly invade and get between you and where your gun is kept, or should your going to get gun leave vulnerable other members of the household who could not accompany you, you would be out of luck.

In an episode of The Best Defense last year, a woman alone in her house during the day barely won a foot race to her bedroom to get her handgun when someone broke in through the front door.

Seeing that and exercising a little thought made it quite clear to me that I could not rely on any home defense weapon that had to be stowed somewhere, regardless of what I had unthinkingly assumed over the years.

So...for me, the answer is none of the above. A long arm cannot meet the requirements alone. One cannot reasonably assume that the need will arise when one is in the room with the gun, or that one will be able to go and get it--at least with my home layout. In a one or two room apartment, maybe....
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Old March 8, 2010, 11:00 AM   #14
Edward429451
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It used to be so cut and dry, 12 ga inside the house and if I need to step outside then the AR

I'm rethinkin that now. Many things to consider. I'm leaning towards the AR more and more as the GP go to arm.
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Old March 8, 2010, 11:12 AM   #15
Glenn E. Meyer
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Here's a good but brief write up on the advantages of a rifle.

http://www.krtraining.com/KRTraining...eflonggun.html

I'm in favor of the AR platform if one studies up or practices as compared to the shotgun.

For those who just say - 12 gauge - that's it! Have you practiced hostage or crowded scene scenarios with the shottie? That might happen at home.

Also, the AR penetration analysis are well confirmed now vs. 00.
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Old March 8, 2010, 11:15 AM   #16
skydiver3346
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Home Defense gun?

My choice: .12 GA shotgun (loaded with #1 buckshot) will definitely do the job (and less problem with penetration to the outside of the home than a high powered rifle).
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Old March 8, 2010, 11:35 AM   #17
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The best choice for a defense weapon is, the one you can get to fastest when you need it. For me, that's the handgun I carry on my body every hour I am dressed.

If I ever need to ensconce in place with a long gun, it'll be a shotgun that I use. But with a houseful of children who do not sleep in the same bedroom as I do, and knowing how much easier it is to move safely and efficiently through the home (to their bedrooms or to the top of the stairs in order to protect the family - not in order to search but in order to defend the family) with a handgun than a long gun, I don't see that hunkering down right where I am is going to be an option for at least another five or six years. That being the case, our home defense tools are handguns for the present.

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Old March 8, 2010, 12:21 PM   #18
Uncle Ben
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My choice is the shotgun with 00 buck over a rifle.

Some do not prefer a long gun for home defense at all, due to it being more difficult to manuver in tight spaces compared to a handgun, but that is a tradeoff against better stopping power and many large pellets, compared to one bullet (per pull of the trigger).

The rifle has the same disadvantage for manuverability as the shotgun, but does not have the advantage/tradeoff of the spread of shot...which is why I would choose the shotgun over the rifle.

I also agree with everything that pax said, which is why the handgun is my first choice, but I do have a shotgun loaded with 00buck if I feel that the circumstances warrant going for that gun instead.
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Old March 8, 2010, 12:23 PM   #19
Bartholomew Roberts
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A shotgun and an AR are both plenty capable. Which one have you trained with or will train with? Quality training is SO much more important than gear selection. Most people either cannot or will not run the weapons they already have well enough to notice their limitations.
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Old March 8, 2010, 03:44 PM   #20
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Could use either but neither would be first choice.
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Old March 8, 2010, 03:56 PM   #21
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My choice is a M1A .308 rifle with a spare magazine on the off side of the stock
. 40 ronds of .308 will settle most disturbances at any range from 5 feet to 800 yards.
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Old March 8, 2010, 04:14 PM   #22
BlackFeather
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Quote:
Do you live in Compton?
Not for years, well, it wasn't exactly Compton... I live in an area with a lot of tweakers and have managed to make most of them my enemies...
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Old March 8, 2010, 04:21 PM   #23
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Of the two (and only those two) I would pick Shotgun, because in my home, the master bedroom is on the opposite end of the home from all the others, so just about any shot I would take from my bedroom is towards the others. I am highly concerned about overpenetration through drywall, therefore I have handloaded some home defense shells with lead BB instead of 00 Buck.

That load helps address the danger to others at the other end of the house, without totally handicapping the shotgun like birdshot might. Lead BB are still a mighty wicked choice at 5-15 yards which is the realistic range I would be shooting at in my case.
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Old March 8, 2010, 04:30 PM   #24
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It depends on your home.
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Old March 8, 2010, 09:52 PM   #25
Deaf Smith
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A 12 gauge will do fine within limits.

A AR-15/Mini-14/AK-47 will do fine within limits.

But I prefer an M1 Carbine. Why?

1. It has low blast compared to the 12 gauges or 5.56/7.62x39. This is significant inside a room! And low flash to!

2. It has low recoil so even a petite woman can shoot it well. Much less recoil than a 12 gauge even with 'tactical low recoil' loads.

3. Very handy inside a house being as short as a Ruger 10/22 (and handles pretty much the same way.)

4. Light weight.

5. Very good Winchester JHPs are made as well as Cor-Bon DPX ammo. Plus Remington still makes soft points to.

6. Low bore axes with the sights so a head shot at 5 yards during a hostage situation will not require an aim off as would a AR or AK. And no aim off needed to compensate for a shotguns pattern.

7. It is battle proven!

And that is why the M1 Carbine, along with my Glock carry 26, is the house gun.
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