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Old March 7, 2010, 01:26 PM   #26
JohnKSa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22-rimfire
I actually have tags on the trigger guard that tells me what ammo a rifle is sighted in with and the distance...
That is an EXCELLENT practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl
I used to have a calling buddy, back in the mid-1980's, who insisted on hunting with a bore sighted rifle.
...
Turned out his "cbore sight" had him about 2' high, and a foot left at 100 yards.
...
"I put the bore sight on, and it was off." he says.

So I ask, "Danny, did you move the adjustments on your scope?"

"Yep!" he says. "It's back on sight now."
Now that is pretty amazing.
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Old March 7, 2010, 05:41 PM   #27
shortwave
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As hunters, don't we owe it to our quarry to be absolutely sure the weapon we're using is zero'ed? Also say a gun/bow is zero`ed at a certain yardage. Unless we`re just going to shoot animals at that specific yardage then shouldn`t we shoot same weapon enough to know where its hitting at different distances?

Pretty basic stuff that all hunters should do.

I, myself make enough human error. Don`t need any help from my equipment.

Bottomline: if your not sure your weapon is zero'ed(not boresighted) and you're are not familiar where it hits at different distances you`ll be shooting at, should not shoot at anything breathing till it is.

Last edited by shortwave; March 7, 2010 at 05:50 PM.
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Old March 7, 2010, 09:48 PM   #28
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Shortwave, I'm with you!

And to tie this in to other discussions we've had in the previous couple weeks: not only are they not sighting in, but I'd bet they bought the biggest, baddest sounding magnum they could find, not knowing any better.

After all, those deer have armor now, right?

It also brings to mind an important lesson I taught my 13yo a couple months ago. We took her 6.8 SPC AR to Cabellas and had them install a Nikon 3-9X40 in Warne rings and asked them to boresight it. I explained to my 13yo what boresighting was, looked at a couple boresighters (I really should just buy one...), got the eye relief adjustments done, and left. Went to the range the next week and it wasn't even on paper at 50 yards! Initial hit was 15" high, 6" left. :barf:

Good thing I bought some of the Hornady 115gr Vmax cheap to get it close before running a couple boxes of SSA 115gr TSX through it to fine tune.
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Old March 7, 2010, 10:56 PM   #29
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Bore sighting the old fashioned way

We have a fence around the back yard, and from inside the garage , looking out the back door to the corner of the yard is 25 yards. I have a jar lid that works pretty dandy nailed to that corner post, with a red thumb tack right in the middle. I set up the gun on a rest so that when looking down the bore (bolt removed) the jar lid fills the entire bore. (BTW I only do this with 22 cal rifles...22-250 and 22 hornet. Different bores would require different size lids.) Then, I adjust the scope so the cross hairs are centered on the thumb tack.

Usually, when I go to the range, the gun will hit within a couple of inches of the bullseye at 25 yards (where I always start to make sure the thing is even on the paper.)

The reason for doing this out of the garage would be obvious if you saw where we live. I would probably get jail time for fooling around out in plain sight with a high power gun with a scope.
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Old March 8, 2010, 08:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
And to tie this in to other discussions we've had in the previous couple weeks: not only are they not sighting in, but I'd bet they bought the biggest, baddest sounding magnum they could find, not knowing any better.

After all, those deer have armor now, right?
While they don't have armor, I think the bigger calibers are to open up a bigger wound so that there will be a better blood trail to follow if by chance they are hit by the hunter. However like Art, I prefer my kills to be DRT.
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Old March 8, 2010, 12:16 PM   #31
Art Eatman
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Dunno why folks have any problem with bore-sighting a bolt-action rifle. I lived in town for a year or so; still no problem.

A couple of books on the dining table, and some thinner stuff for adjustment. Point out a window to some object a hundred or so yards away. An electric transformer on a pole, for instance. Or a car window.

Look through the bore, center the object as best I could. Adjust the crosshairs. Repeat as necessary until it looked "pretty close".

Okay, at the range, start at 25 yards. I've never missed an 8-1/2" x 11" sheet of paper at that distance. I use a marker, making one horizontal line and three vertical lines. I'm a cheapskate. Okay, adjust the scope until I'm dead on. One shot at a time between adjustments has always worked fine.

Then go to 100 yards. Maybe two, at most three, three-shot groups to get the group centered where I want.

Semi-auto? I don't bother with the scope, other than to center the crosshairs in it. I just start my shooting at ten yards before moving out to twenty-five. No big deal. A little low at ten is near-on at 25.

I dunno. I just sorta wander along through life, wondering why other folks are having all those problems. Life itsownself ain't exactly rocket science, y'know?
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Old March 8, 2010, 12:30 PM   #32
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Art is exactly right.

I've started at 50 yards with that exact same method and never missed a piece of paper.



As for hunting with a unsighted rifle....

No way, I wouldn't even set foot in the woods. I have to have confidence that I can do the job. I can't have that confidence with a gun that I've never sighted. In fact, I wouldn't go in the woods with a gun that I sighted LAST season and haven't shot since. Confidence matters.
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Old March 8, 2010, 03:43 PM   #33
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Okay, at the range, start at 25 yards.
Bingo! Volunteered for range sight-in days at my previous club. We always had a station set up to "get on paper at 25." Watched with some amusement the guys with new equipment who would use up the only box of ammo they brought and never get on paper at 100. Go figure. Especially since we had guys on hand ready and able to help.

To the contrary, was always impressed by the guys who went to the 100 yard line and put three shots in the bullseye with ol' Betsy, and said "Yup; still on." Those guys always made me feel good.
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Old March 8, 2010, 05:08 PM   #34
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Ive seen both ends of the spectrum. My FIL's 30-30 bumps around in the front of his truck year round. He buys whatever bullets are on sale and if a deer gets within 100 yds of him, its dead. No exceptions. He's never read a ballistics table in his life.
Ive got friends that can quote reloading manuals line and verse and can tell what xyz cartridges drop and wind drift at 500 yds is from memory. Most couldnt kill a deer in a pen.
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Old March 8, 2010, 07:15 PM   #35
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Went to the range the next week and it wasn't even on paper at 50 yards! Initial hit was 15" high, 6" left.
But doesn't this mean you just have to click your sight and bring it down 7 1/2 inches and to the right three inches?
Sorry, I was actually asked this and the guy just figured he would do it anyway.

It did not work and he spent another 50 rounds getting it back on target. He did not believe what he saw in the spotting scope so he walked out to the target after every three shots.

It was a form of comic relief.
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Old March 8, 2010, 11:55 PM   #36
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As a teen, my brothers and I would be shooting our center fire rifles in our back yard out to 100 or 150 yds. We had a real nice gently sloping field behind our house to the woods. Anyway, as always, the week prior to deer season, we would be warming up our rifles to check scopes and things. My Dad would wander out with his 30-06 (760 Remington) and watch a while, then slip the magazine in and chamber a round.... let me take a couple shots and with open sights.... at 100 yds he'd usually put 3 rounds into about a 2" group very near the bull. We'd walk up to the target to check and my Dad would say... Looks good enough for me! He seldom missed during deer season regardless of the range. Us kids were trying to get our groups down to under 1". He would just chuckle, watch a while, then take his rifle back to the house.

Shooting a deer is not so hard usually at normal woods ranges. The hard part is knowing where to hunt and how to hunt. Takes some experience.

Yes, with a new scope, I always bore sight to about 25 yds to get it on paper, and then move to 50yds for a few shots, then on to 100yds. If we have a target set at a longer distance, we'll shoot that one too. You do need to know which direction to move the sights. Sometimes it feels backwards.
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Old March 9, 2010, 06:54 AM   #37
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G'day. Hay Uncle Buck

Quote:
....at 50 yards! Initial hit was 15" high, 6" left.

But doesn't this mean you just have to click your sight and bring it down 7 1/2 inches and to the right three inches?
Don't you see it. The scope is 4 clicks to 1 inch at 100 yards. So at 50 yards you are half the distance so half the clicks.

If he was 15" high at 100 yards THEN he would have to adjust the whole 15 inches. But cose he was shooting at 50 yards he only needs half the adjustment.
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Old March 9, 2010, 11:44 AM   #38
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You will find me out at the range a day or two before opening of season. It accomplishes 2 things. My rifle is zeroed and I get a little extra practice.

When I travel, I sight in before I leave, and once I get there, I recheck. Ammo is cheap compared to the cost of your licence, travel expense (auto, plane, boat). Lodging (camping, lodge, or motel), and in some cases guide fees. I sure wouldnt want to miss a shot because I was either too "rusty" or my sights were off.

To keep from being to "rusty", I try to get out once every week or two. Sometimes it can be a little more than a month but that is extremely rare.

Maybe I should just give up hunting.........I can buy the meat much cheaper by the pound!
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Old March 11, 2010, 04:56 PM   #39
slab11
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Quote:
G'day. Hay Uncle Buck


Quote:
....at 50 yards! Initial hit was 15" high, 6" left.

But doesn't this mean you just have to click your sight and bring it down 7 1/2 inches and to the right three inches?

Don't you see it. The scope is 4 clicks to 1 inch at 100 yards. So at 50 yards you are half the distance so half the clicks.

If he was 15" high at 100 yards THEN he would have to adjust the whole 15 inches. But cose he was shooting at 50 yards he only needs half the adjustment.
Actually, i think it is the other way around: if you are off 15inches at 50 yards, would you not be off by 30 inches at 100 yards? Therefore, you would need DOUBLE the clicks instead of HALF the clicks. Am i not thinking of this right? anyway, that is what i use when sighting in at 50.



This is another mistake people make and burn up ammo at the range trying to get on paper...
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Old March 13, 2010, 02:39 AM   #40
SKULLANDCROSSBONES65
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G'day slab11. PM sent.
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Old March 13, 2010, 06:18 AM   #41
rshanneck2002
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Im a member of my local Rod&Gun club so i shoot probably a dozen times in the spring,summer and fall or more. Basic setup is starting with my old fashioned bore sighter,which only puts you on the target somewhere at 25 yds in conjunction with a simple program i downloaded from remington called remington shoot. Are the boresight and program foolproof? no but it sure saves alot of ammo getting on paper at the range. I choose prior what gr ammo and stick to it while hunting,when i test the latest and greatest i do not change my zero until i see how they group,then if i like alot or any improvement over my last favorite,then i change scope settings. Simple system that has worked for me for yrs. All this being said about the latest and greatest alot of game has fallen to remington core-lokt and winchester super x,not target or varmit ammo but real good on deer,elk,etc. I always start at 25 yds to get my ammo centered referring to the rem shoot program, (based on cal)move to 50 and 75 yd to finally 100 yds usually setting my rifle at 2 to 3 inches high at 100 as close to dead center as possiable with said rifle. Have done this with everything from .243 to a .416 rigby (for some one else). Its real funny watching someone at the range cussin up a storm cause he cant get his new rifle on paper after 3 boxes of 20 rds. A little research goes a long ways, and practice of course.
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Old March 13, 2010, 06:46 AM   #42
youp
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I have checked zero during season, after a slip,trip or fall.

I like sight in days, lets me see some pretty cool stuff. Last year I got to handle a Trijicon scoped something or other. Or the fellow trying to zero the model 94 32 Special...with 150 gr 30-30's. Special time of the year. More anticipation than high school prom night.

I have a buddy that likes to quote one of Murphy's laws. Murphy has a bunch. I cannot quote it. The essence; some shooters are better of with a scope NOT zeroed. They cannot hit what they are aiming at... so they actually have a better chance to hit if the scope is off.
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Old March 13, 2010, 08:34 AM   #43
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I have a buddy that likes to quote one of Murphy's laws. Murphy has a bunch. I cannot quote it. The essence; some shooters are better of with a scope NOT zeroed. They cannot hit what they are aiming at... so they actually have a better chance to hit if the scope is off.
I can't understand the statistics of that. Perhaps they are better shooting a properly supported (shooting sticks, tree, bags or whatever) and zeroed, mild recoiling rifle which helps eliminate the accuracy Grim Reaper...flinch. There's no reason why any average Joe can't shoot the average distance game is taken with acceptable; pie plate, hunting accuracy. Our forefathers had many more variables to deal with yet they survived long enough to at least reproduce.
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Old March 13, 2010, 09:21 AM   #44
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Our forefathers had many more variables to deal with yet they survived long enough to at least reproduce.
A bit tautological, but they had to do it to survive. Those that could not hunt well probably didn't survive, didn't reproduce, and hence aren't our forefathers, LOL.

So I am getting the impression that there are a fairly visible number of hunters who hunt without really being gun people that know and understand their gear. I am just guessing, but I would bet "hunting" is a form of vacation for these folks where they are more enthralled with the concept than the actual application.
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Old March 13, 2010, 10:33 PM   #45
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DNS,

I can be forgetful some times and even loose every day items. The last time I lost my car keys I looked all over the house and finally found them in the very last place I looked.

Thanks for teaching me a new word. I hope I don't loose that one, but If I do I will know where to look for it.
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Old March 13, 2010, 11:11 PM   #46
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So I am getting the impression that there are a fairly visible number of hunters who hunt without really being gun people that know and understand their gear.
Most definitely.

A typical situation would involve a co-worker hearing that you were going hunting just prior to deer season. You start talking and next thing you know you say, why not come out with me? Get your license and I have an extra rifle? You can borrow it. As the person loaning the rifle that you didn't intend to hunt with and probably hadn't shot it in years. You knew it hit okay a few years prior and it has just sit in the gun cabinet; should be fine. The next day, the co-worker meets you at 3:00 AM and you "go hunting". They have not even taken a shot. They would never even think about zeroing the sights or anything along those lines.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; March 13, 2010 at 11:38 PM.
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Old March 13, 2010, 11:42 PM   #47
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H went on a black bear hunt in canada with my dad a few years ago, a guide he used before in minnesota came with us.

He brought a weatherby in .338 wby mag that he received in payment.

The local guide had us shoot at a target 100yd away to confirm that we were sighted in.

The guide from minnesota shot 3 times and didn't even come near the target.

The guide moved him closer, and it took him 14 shots to sight in.

He had 3 shells(only brought 1 box) for the whole hunt, and when he asked the local guide if he knew where he could find any the local just laughed.
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Old March 28, 2010, 05:24 PM   #48
James R. Burke
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I have seen it alot. With all age groups. Pretty hard getting placement without knowing were it is going. It is very surprizing how many folks wont even check them out. Then wonder why there missing all the time.
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Old March 28, 2010, 08:41 PM   #49
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Good friends of mine own & operate a public shooting range. They're both lifetime shooters & hunters and have been running it for over 20 years. They know what they're talking about! If you don't believe the anecdotes posted here I can assure you they're true. I've helped out behind the counter and sighted in a few hunting rifles before hunting season. When I shoot I often help out shooters who are having problems. The stories I've heard and the things I've seen could fill a book but most folks wouldn't believe them.
My point? Just as all shooters are not hunters, all hunters are not shooters. I've learned to explain problems and possible solutions carefully but I'm not offended when someone doesn't listen or believe me. Can't tell you how many times I've seen hunters come into the office, out of ammo and not on target. Often the rifle's barrel is still too hot to touch. Some folks just won't take good advice. They think the topics we discuss here are just so much technical mumbo-jumbo and they're gonna do it the way Uncle Charlie always did it. The're usually not stupid, just ignorant. We're all ignorant, just in different areas. For the sake of the animals, we need to try to educate these folks. Just don't get too upset when ignorance prevails.
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Old March 28, 2010, 09:28 PM   #50
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Some folks just won't take good advice. They think the topics we discuss here are just so much technical mumbo-jumbo and they're gonna do it the way Uncle Charlie always did it. The're usually not stupid, just ignorant.
They may be ignorant before you talk to them, but if they won't listen then they're no longer merely ignorant.

I call that determinedly ignorant. It's when a person doesn't know something, doesn't know that he doesn't know it, resists all efforts to educate him and goes around trying to get others to follow his example. It's distressingly common.
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