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Old March 3, 2010, 09:13 PM   #1
Technohead
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22-250 excess velocity spread

I am reloading fo a Encore 22-250, 24 inch bull barrel (factory barreL). Have neck resized cases, deburred flash holes, cleaned primer pockets, trimmed to length prior to resizing, and turned outside of necks.

I am using remingtton cases, winchester primers, Varget power with seirra 53 grain match hp bullets, seated 0.002 from lans. I have tried powder charges from minimum of 31.7 to 35.7 grains both before turnnning necks and after.

I still get velocity spreads from 75 to 110 fps different out of each 5 shots before and after turning necks.

After first attempt and before turning necks I checked bullet excentricity and found from 0.001 to 0.012. I unloaded all the ones over 0.002 and turned outside necks and reloaded them. Most runouts were then between 0.001 & 0.004.

I then separated loads having 0.002 max runout and fired at range with same extreme spread and groups of 1 to 1 1/2 inches. Many times 2 or 3 bullets will almost be touching and the other 2 or 3 will be 1 1/2 inches from them.

Can someone help this confused person?
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Old March 3, 2010, 09:21 PM   #2
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be interesting to see if anyone knows... ive been having the same trouble for nearly four months with mine now... ive tried different bullets,powder, primers,seating depth... i fixed it by not shooting it anymore for now.
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Old March 3, 2010, 09:31 PM   #3
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Just curious as to how or what you're doing to measure you're powder? Wandering how consistent each is too the other...
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Old March 3, 2010, 09:35 PM   #4
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I also this problem when I first got my chrono. I could not figure out why my very accurate loads had such a high ES. Then I read the manual and moved the chrono out to 15ft from muzzle. Problem solved.
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Old March 3, 2010, 11:28 PM   #5
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A few things that come to mind:

* You don't mention deburring flash holes. It really does make a difference.

* Try backing off from the lands, being too close causes irregular pressure. None of my 22-250s liked being seated that close to the lands, I seat mine .015" to .020" off the lands. My rifle consistently shoots about 3/4".

* My 22-250s always liked being pretty close to max load. From the charge weights listed, it looks like you are using the Hornady reloading manual. Lyman lists max charge a little higher. Seat the bullets deeper, check for pressure signs and you might be able to kick it up a little.

* Are you neck sizing? Are you using once-fired brass? Factory brass is seldom tight enough in the chamber for best accuracy.

* You mentioned turning necks. How far did you turn them? If you turn them to get 100% cleanup, you will make some necks far thinner than others, affecting bullet pull. I usually turn mone to get about 50% cleanup.
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Old March 4, 2010, 04:12 AM   #6
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while the spread may be a little high I wouldn't consider it unusual either. the bottom line is how did the load shoot? sometimes everybody gets too concerned with what the chronograph says. I have shot some loads that varied quite a bit and shot very well. I use H-380 in my Ruger #1B in 22-250 and I had previously used H-4895.
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Old March 4, 2010, 06:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
I also this problem when I first got my chrono. I could not figure out why my very accurate loads had such a high ES. Then I read the manual and moved the chrono out to 15ft from muzzle. Problem solved.
Ditto!

You gotta get the chrono out of the muzzle blast zone or it will give you garbage readings. It took me a few sessions on the range to figure that out.
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Old March 10, 2010, 08:34 PM   #8
Technohead
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22-250 Excessive velocity spread

These remington cases were new but I fired them 1 or 2 times in a different rifle. I did debur the inside and outside of the flash holes. I also only neck resized the cases, however I did turn all the necks down 100% in hopes to crate uniform neck thickness. This was done after I neck sized them.

The lastest thing I did was to take someones advise to but bench rest dies. I bought Redding bench rest dies and resized the necks and rechecked the neck trimming by redoing it. This only took off very min. amount of material. I checked the bullet runout and it is now 0.002 max. I reloaded same loads of Varget power with Winchester large rifle primers and as always measure every load of powder on my Lyman digital powder scale to within 0.1 grains.

The velocity spread is somewhat better sometimes but runs from about 50 fps to 120 fps with the average of 5 shot groups being about 70 to 80 fps.

The chronograph is about 8 from the muzzle. The groups are now running about 1 inch to 1.25 inches. This is from a 24 inch Encore heavy barrel.

I have the trigger down to 2 pounds 12 oz. and using a Muelller 4 to 16 scope with the bases lock tite and the scope rings lapped and scope srews torked to 20 pounds and base clamps torked to 40 pounds. I have releived the forend completely except of course at the 2 mounting posts and have torked it down to 35 pounds.

I have started with loads of 31.7 grains of powder in 1 grain increments up to 34.7 grains. Bullet is Searra 53 gr match hp, seated 0.003 from the lans

I have done much less than this with other rifles with groups half the size or better.

Should I go to match primmers, Winchester brass, change bullets or what?
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Old March 10, 2010, 09:04 PM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
seated 0.003 from the lans
Did you mean to say .003 or .03?

I notice that you say that this is for an Encore. How are you setting headspace? The procedure is not the same as it is for "normal" rifles.

See this page for information on proper headspacing for the Encore.

Erratic headspacing could result in erratic distance from the lands which would create erratic pressure, which would in turn create erratic velocity.
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Old March 10, 2010, 09:11 PM   #10
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I'll start by saying that I don't have any experience with Encores, but I do with a Contender. As I found here at Belm's site http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/ , the Contender can have accuracy problems if you don't bump the shoulder back enough to let the action fully close. So, consider that neck sizing might be the cause of your accuracy problem.

With respect to your velocity spread, that much really isn't that unusual for such a high intensity cartridge. And, it might be a separate "problem" from your accuracy issue. I have seem some sub-MOA loads with velocity spreadas as large as yours. But, to address it, consider that with only a 0.002" jump to the rifling, very slight variations in the jump distance MIGHT make a noticeable difference in start pressure and therefore peak pressurre and velocity. So, if I were you, I would try backing the bullet away from the rifling in increments of 0.005" and see if things improve on the way to at least 0.030".

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Old March 10, 2010, 09:15 PM   #11
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I would explore other powder and bullet options.

Peetzakilla also posted a cool link regarding headspace in this particular type of rifle.
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Old March 10, 2010, 09:36 PM   #12
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I've loaded for three 22-250's over the years. All three were amazingly sensative to primers.
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Old March 11, 2010, 07:18 AM   #13
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The chronograph is about 8 from the muzzle.
If you mean 8 ft., you need to double this distance.
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Old March 11, 2010, 09:29 AM   #14
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^What he said.
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Old March 18, 2010, 02:46 PM   #15
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I go 10-12ft normally for a chronograph. I noticed big difference with 41 Mag with H110.

Here is my load for .22-250 out of 700 VLS(26in barrel).

Nosler brass - these are pretty nice and cheaper than Lapua/Norma, but more than Federal/Win/Rem/Hornady stuff. They are weight sorted and flashholes deburred on top of other prep.

CCI 200 primer
35gr Varget
50gr V-Max
2.35 COL

3913 fps. 10-20 SD.
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Old March 19, 2010, 02:51 PM   #16
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Technohead, you seem to think that neck turning and seating close to the rifling origin, are guaranteed solutions to accuracy. In a match blueprinted bolt action rifle, yes they would help. But in a factory chambered single shot, it won't make much difference.

While the encore is a fine rifle, it isn't a match capable rifle, no matter what tricks you may try.
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Old March 19, 2010, 06:54 PM   #17
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You stated you used brass fired in another rifle, and neck sized them for this rifle?
I have always assumed you Neck Size for the rifle you are going to shoot the ammo in, because different rifles will have different chamber dimensions.
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Old March 28, 2010, 03:13 PM   #18
Technohead
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22-250 Excess Velocity Spread

I'll try putting the chronograpg 15 feet away from muzzle . Its a Pact and the manual says to put it at 8 feet, which is what I waqs doing. Tried anoth rifle with some Black Hills ammo and got very consistant results with es of between 15 and 25 fps, in a 223.

I realize an Encor is not a Bench Rest rifle but several guys have reported very good accuracy from them, much better than I am getting. Maybe you are correct and I am trying to make it something its not.
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Old March 28, 2010, 10:57 PM   #19
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If you are getting low ES's with factory rounds then I would guess that either you are not weighing the powder consistently, or that you need to MOVE THE CHRONOGRAPH OUT TO 15FT!
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