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Old March 3, 2010, 01:48 AM   #1
Big Bill
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Something to take into consideration if you're planning to hunt in Colorado this year

Something to take into consideration if you're planning to hunt in Colorado this year...

Wolf-pack report raises doubts, fears
By Nancy Lofholm
The Denver Post

Link to the article...

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/...commented-news
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Old March 3, 2010, 06:56 AM   #2
Daryl
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One wolf pack, if it indeed exists, isn't going to make much difference in the overall hunting conditoins in the state.

I don't like wolves any more than the next fella, and I don't get any "warm fuzzies" over their re-introduction in many western states, but a pack of wolves wouldn't stop me from hunting Colorado any more than it stopped me from hunting deer in Arizona last year near one of the release sites.

They're here, so we either deal with them or stop hunting.

And I'm not gonna stop hunting any time soon.

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Old March 3, 2010, 11:58 AM   #3
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Daryl, I like your attitude!
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Old March 4, 2010, 07:18 PM   #4
T. O'Heir
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I will never understand the irrational fear of any animal.
"...re-introduction..." Proven, long ago, that having wolves in a hunting area increases the game animal population. They clean out the sick and elderly.
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Old March 4, 2010, 11:02 PM   #5
30-30remchester
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I have seen just a few wolves and have no real life experences to share, however I dont agree with the old adage "they kill only the old and sick". From people I respect and things I have seen in dogs, it doesnt matter if they are weak or strong, a wolf or dog will kill anything they can. I watched two labrador retrievers terrorize a herd of elk consisting of @500 animals. Those dogs chased the elk for over 4 miles and the elk were in a frenzie. From what others have said wolves that move into an area other game animals are killed or leave. Mountain lions are becoming a great killer of elk in my area and areas that always had good elk populations now have few elk and cat tracks abound.
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Old March 5, 2010, 12:09 AM   #6
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I guess it's too early. We'll table this discussion until after wolves have been in Colorado for awhile like they have been here. Then when you are hauling that elk out on your back after dark, we'll see if you can understand why some people have a irrational fear of some animals like wolvs or even coyotes.

Coyotes kill Canadian folk singer

Taylor Mitchell was found bleeding heavily from multiple bite wounds.

Two coyotes have attacked and killed a 19-year-old folk singer in Nova Scotia, eastern Canada, officials say.

Taylor Mitchell, a promising musician from Toronto, died in hospital after the animals pounced as she hiked alone in Cape Breton Highlands National Park.

Walkers alerted park rangers after hearing her screams. The rangers shot one coyote, but were still searching for the second.

Attacks by coyotes on humans are rare; they usually prey on deer and hares.

Bleeding heavily from multiple bite wounds, the singer-songwriter was airlifted to a Halifax hospital, but died of her injuries on Wednesday morning, authorities said.

see the rest of the article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8331106.stm
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Old March 5, 2010, 12:56 AM   #7
Stiofan
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There are packs of them all around Idaho, haven't killed too many of us hunters yet.

These wolves are large non-native Canadian grays, they are sort of decimating our elk populations, our own smaller native timber wolves never did so (yes there are still a few around) but the Canadians are a different hunter altogether. There is no "reintroduction", the Gray wolf is not and never has been native.

Having said that, most armed hunters don't have to fear the wolves.
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Old March 5, 2010, 01:39 AM   #8
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Lets not start another thread devoted to exterminating top predators.
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Old March 5, 2010, 10:02 AM   #9
Art Eatman
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I only know from reading, but articles from the northern Rockies states have commented about a wolf-associated decline in elk populations. Even stipulating about the sick and lame, that's not gonna increase a population.

Holding a herd's numbers to the carrying capacity of the land will hold the numbers constant, but over-grazing/browsing doesn't reduce herd numbers; it only reduces average body size. That's obvious in ranching as well as wildlife. It ain't rocket science, although it seems overly-complex to a lot of city folks.

I'm not surprised that the wolves are moving southward. The present estimated population up in Wyoming and Idaho seems to be around five times as many as the originally targeted expectations.

Come to think of it, given the over-population of whitetail in central Texas, we're real short of wolves. We need a trap-and-transfer program. Ranchers could add to their cash flow, renting camping spaces to Sierra Clubbers to come hear the howling. No wolves around your ranch? Hey, set up a boombox about a quarter-mile from the camp area, and crank it up! Twiddle with the boombox to make it all sound natural, drink a beer and count the money. Helluva deal!

But, no, let's not get into some sort of predator-killing yap-yap. BTDT. Let's wait until post-season factual comments are published.
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Old March 5, 2010, 12:37 PM   #10
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Facts???

I have no predisposition or fear of coyote,cougars or wolves.
I have heard that cougars kill about every 9 to 14 days (mostly deer) or 32 to 26 times a year.(say a average of 29).
california has 5000 cougars. or 145000 deer kills a year.
If a wolf needs about the same amout of food this would be about the same amount.
anybody know any wolf facts?

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Old March 5, 2010, 01:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
anybody know any wolf facts?
That is the problem. There is lots of info out there, but much more chaff than wheat.
Lots of what I found was incomplete and often contradictory.
There have been a couple threads on wolves, use the search function.
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Old March 5, 2010, 01:54 PM   #12
Daryl
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Here's a true story of imagination and exagerations gone wild, with those who's imagination ran away having only been fed a teaser...

Back in the early-mid 1980's, we had an area here known as "The Bluffs" where locals went to "get away" from the every day rigors of life. On any given night, you could find partiers of all sorts. Folks with ATV's, 4x4 vehicles of all sorts, drinkers, pot-smokers, and right on down to the Jehova's Witnesses there to "spread the word".

It was a popular place.

Then one fine evening, folks started hearing some odd sounds. It sounded very much like a large cat, and some "rumors" started circulating about how some breed of asian cat had been released into the area.

Then stories started about folks who'd seen the cats, and described them with great detail. From there, it was inevitable that a story about someone being attacked by them got started, and soon there were people going down to that area to "hunt" the cats.

Of course, when the "hunts" started, my buddies and I quickly decided to stop messin' around with our mouth blown predator calls.

It doesn't take much to get folks' imagination going.
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Old March 5, 2010, 03:41 PM   #13
HiBC
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What some of this may be about,there are folks who decide to have wolf and wolf hybrid sanctuaries.
Then reality shows up,through neighbor complaints,zoning,costs,or just the ongoing responsibility.
The sanctuary needs to lower numbers,or close.
What happens? Not a lot of folks line up to "adopt as a companion" a wolf or wolf/dog.
The wolf people aren't going to put the animals down,so,they ease their minds by releasing them to the wild.
I have seen the pictures of dead ones that were released in eastern Colorado

A year and a half ago my brothers were up in a Colorado Wilderness area and they were certain a wolf pack was in the area,and visited camp.Elk were scarce.They had a friend along who had lived in AK,and he agreed they were wolves.All had spent plenty of time around coyotes and were quite familiar with them.
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Old March 5, 2010, 05:11 PM   #14
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I will never understand the irrational fear of any animal.
"...re-introduction..." Proven, long ago, that having wolves in a hunting area increases the game animal population. They clean out the sick and elderly.
I love how Native Americans and many top predators are always considered to be the consumate ecological stewards. Native Americans are no different than any other peoples and top predators like wolves aren't special either in their choices of prey.

Contrary to what is stated, they don't only take the sick and the elderly (by the way, do we have any elderly hunters here?). It isn't like they search out only those animals. They take what they can get. The sick, injured, and elderly may be obvious choices year round, no doubt, but the young are obvious choice when they are available. When those animals aren't available, they don't wait around until some sick, injured, old, or young animal happens by. They will take fully healthy adults. In many cases, they will take the females over the males. Wonder why?

The strategy of most predators is based on ease and risk reduction. Easy and/or low risk prey isn't always available and so they will take what they can get. By "available" I mean what is present relative to the animal's hunger level. The hungrier the predator, the greater risks the predator will take. Sometimes they take on less than ideal animals (such as healthy adults) because they think they can take the animal. In other words, the predator need not be starving to necessarily take on a riskier prey.

Heck, wolves in the tundra areas of Alaska often subsist on the rodent population. Yep, the big ole high tier predators are eating mice and rats. Why? It is what is available....and they don't select the old, young, sick, or injured. They take what they can get.

Note that they will gladly scavenge dead carcasses before hunting.

Big Bill recited the article about the kid folk singer in Canada that was killed by coyotes. She was not old, sick, or injured. She was young and within the prey size for coyotes. A goodly number of coyote attacks on humans are on children (notable exceptions being with rabid animals, cornered animals, etc.).

We can get a lot further in our understanding of animals and ecology if we do away with the romanticized versions of animals and their environs.
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Old March 5, 2010, 06:57 PM   #15
Big Bill
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Double Naught - Ah Yes! The myth of the noble redman; the myth of the noble cowboy; the myth of the noble feminist; the myth of the noble buffalo hunter; the myth of the noble (insert favorite myth here); all have similar roots. In most cases, they are devoid of truth and have no basis in reality.

I agree with you that many people have all kinds of misconceptions about wolves, coyotes, cougars, etc. These animals always will do whatever it takes to survive. It’s a mistake to fail to understand this that some people make when entering the territory of dangerous animals.

Several years ago, I was out hunting with three of my friends in a remote are of the southwestern Idaho desert. We parked just off the road and hiked back several miles along a ridge to do some scouting. One thing lead to another and we got caught out after dark. As we were heading back to our truck using the battery powered headlamps we each were carrying, we started to hear noises and catch some glimpses of predator eyes circling around us. There must have been four or more coyotes surrounding us. They circled us the entire the time we were making our way out of there. We were all armed with 22s, and had fired a few times at them; but, it didn’t matter. They just continued to circle us. There was no moon out and it was very dark. It was a spooky sensation for us to be the hunted instead of the hunters. One that I will never forget.

When I go into the woods, I try to be as prepared as possible for animal attacks (and human attacks). I do the same when I go for a walk in town. I have been attacked personally by dogs at least two times while taking a walk here in town just within the last three years. I carry some dog spray, a knife and sidearm whenever I go walking now.

This thread was started just as a heads up to people hunting in Colorado, because I hadn’t heard of wolves that far south before. I think, given the wolfs supporters agenda, that it won’t be too long before wolves are more common in many more states where they aren’t common now.
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Old March 5, 2010, 07:55 PM   #16
Big Bill
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They're here, so we either deal with them or stop hunting.
Ok, so, what do you do to "deal" with them? Just forget about them and keep on truckin? Or, are you more aware that they're there and take some precautions? If you're in grizzly country, don't you alter your hunting style a little?
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Old March 6, 2010, 11:59 AM   #17
reloader28
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You know why they're moving south? Cause they've eaten everything around here.
Just kidding. But they have put one helluva hurting on the elk and moose.
Its always funny to hear the people who dont know any better talk about how the wolf only takes the old and sick. You better wake up to reality and see the truth.
Wolves will attack and kill just for sport. Survival has nothing to do with it. Around here, we have watched them do it. They will literally chase a herd and kill until they're tired. They dont eat them all and they dont even kill them all on the spot, but they do chase and chew the crap out of them. The chewed up ones dont last long after
They are nothing but a huge dog and I dont know of one single dog that hunts just for food. I'll bet none of you do either. They love to chase and kill rabbits but seldom eat them.
Like Stiofan said, these wolves are not reintroduced, they were introduced as there is nothing native about them.

You know what? I'm going to stop right there and go somewhere else before I get too worked up and start throwing a fit.
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Old March 6, 2010, 01:00 PM   #18
Daryl
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I guess it's too early. We'll table this discussion until after wolves have been in Colorado for awhile like they have been here. Then when you are hauling that elk out on your back after dark, we'll see if you can understand why some people have a irrational fear of some animals like wolvs or even coyotes.

Coyotes kill Canadian folk singer
And yet, I've called in and killed many hundreds of coyotes, and have never had one show the least bit of agression towards me. I see them at night in my neighborhood, yet I don't worry at all about kids in the same areas because a simple yell is, in the vast majority of cases, enough to scare them away.

If they bother my critters, then I shoot them. It really is as simple as that. No fear, and seeing or shooting a coyote to me is a redundant regularity that provokes no more concern than changing a flat tire.

Quote:
Ok, so, what do you do to "deal" with them? Just forget about them and keep on truckin? Or, are you more aware that they're there and take some precautions? If you're in grizzly country, don't you alter your hunting style a little?
Actually, no. I don't change my style of hunting at all.

I grew up in the same area where I live now. We have black bears within a mile of where I live, and the possibility of a mt lion even closer than that. As I said above, coyotes are a regular sighting, and I hear them howling most nights. Heck, here along the Arizona/Mexico border we even have the possibility of an encounter with an ocelot, jaguar, and who knows what else. Rattle snakes are a common "encounter" too, but no moreso than scorpions, ant beds, and such, so a person learns to look before they sit down.

Where I hunt elk, there are black bears, mtn lions, and other critters that eat meat. Now there are wolves in those areas, too. They're another top predator that deserve the same respect and/or concern as the others that have been there all along.

I've never trembled at the sight of a bear or lion, and I don't fear wolves, either. I've seen them, and they mostly avoid me if they know I'm there.

How do I "deal with them"? Well, I'm reminded of a night when my dad and I were in a deer camp, and a mtn lion dropped in for a mid-night visit. The horses were almighty nervous, and that cat screamed at us a few times; in frustration, I'd guess. I couldn't see it out in the dark, but there was no doubt about where it was at. I only needed to watch where the horses were looking, and I knew exactly where that cat was.

I stayed up for an hour or so with the horses, and when they settled down, I went back to my tent and went to sleep. Dad woke up, but didn't come out. Instead, he left it for me to "deal with". We talked a bit while the cat was around, and we both fell alsleep easy enough after it was gone, confidant that the horses would wake us up if it came back.

I've spent many a night in wolf country since their re-introduction in Arizona, and have never had a problem. I've heard them howl a few times (they usually get the coyotes yappin' too), but haven't lost much sleeo over it.

The time I spent in grizzly country was pretty similar. My buddy had a tag, and ended up shooting one on that trip (we were hunting caribou), but we didn't worry about them much.

I'm fairly aware of my surroundings most of the time. If there's something that needs dealt with, then I deal with it. If not, then I don't worry about it.

In truth, I'm more comfortable in wolf/lion/bear country than I am in town. At least I know what's what in the back country. You never know who's your enemy in town.

And look at the number of people who've been murdered by gangs, muggers, and so forth in comparison to wolves, bears, and mtn lions over the last 100 years or so.

So I don't sweat the small stuff.

Daryl

Last edited by Daryl; March 6, 2010 at 01:13 PM.
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